The International Football Thread

[smpl 3]

in winter

[kobematabryant 400]

What world cup is it that most people are up and against about? 2018 Russia or 2022 Qatar?

[kobematabryant 400]

Haha it's like a compulsion. They get investigated by a guy who isn't independent anyway and wasn't allowed to investigate the claims fully. And he essentially clears them of corruption (wrongly in most people's opinions, but whatever) but criticises them for a few things and then they publish his findings and edit all of the possibly bad things out of it to such an extent that the guy himself comes out and calls foul.

This current incarnation of the organisation is the most rotten, corrupt, despicable that football has ever or will ever see. And Blatter is the ugly, moronic head of it.

How much longer can it go on? Will/can anyone do anything about it short of boycotting the world cups? (Currently not sure that'd be the worst idea ever, especially if USA, Australia, Belgium, Netherlands and a few others came with us. That would definitely force sponsors to pull out, and it seems the only way to hurt FIFA is to hit their pockets. So that might be the only solution.

Although I don't condone this whole investigation into the corruption claims of 2022 world cup bid but can you enlighten me why people are so up and against about Qatar 2022 and Russia 2018?

[Viper22 2,418]

Although I don't condone this whole investigation into the corruption claims of 2022 world cup bid but can you enlighten me why people are so up and against about Qatar 2022 and Russia 2018?

Right. So the main reason is because of the lack of transparency in the voting process. Qatar's bid was led by Mohammed bin Hammam, who soon after their successful bid was suspended for life due to 'ethics violations'. Although FIFA claimed the bribery he was accused of was not related to the vote for the world cup, his suspension only occurred when journalists supplied evidence of his bribing of officials and an investigation began. FIFA then forced this investigation to close by saying he had already been suspended. Then you could go into the human rights violations by the Qatari government in buliding the stadia. Or the fact that it was a summer world cup that was bid for and now it is suddenly going to change. Or the fact that it could be during the season for top leagues in the world. Or the fact that Qatar has some pretty dodgy opinions/rules/laws when it comes to homosexual people or women showing off what they deem to be 'too much' skin. Or the fact that Qatar have no footballing heritage whatsoever and the money the government is spending on the tournament could be better spent elsewhere.

As for Russia, when FIFA started this investigation, people had accused Russia of buying votes, but it turned out that the computers used in Russia's world cup bid process had all been destroyed less than a week after they won. How handy eh? So no evidence could be gathered into the voting process and alleged promised bid sharing between Russia '18 and Japan '20. And then you could go into Russia's current warmongering and their attitude towards racism (see: CSKA).

Then there is the vote. You can't see who voted for who (why?) and the process is really murky and not well defined. Also, look at the results of the 2018 vote. As soon as England had been knocked out of the voting people changed their voting patterns. That makes no sense. You vote for who you think wants to win, why change after 1 elimination? Seems like tactical voting to me. Same thing happened in the 2020 vote.

All of that is being coupled with FIFA's general douchebaggery over the last 10+ years (resisting goal line technology, Blatter calling demands for an investigation into the bidding process 'racist', all of the corrupt officals that have been bribed (some of which which has been proved, others which is blatantly obvious) and the constant attacks on anyone that tries to stand up to them (see: the FA).

And finally (admittedly) there is a little bit of annoyance on the part of English fans and the FA that we invented the damn sport and have only had 1 world cup in it's history even though we could host one tomorrow, but that's neither here nor there in this case.

That enough for you?

[iseah100 5,612]

Right. So the main reason is because of the lack of transparency in the voting process. Qatar's bid was led by Mohammed bin Hammam, who soon after their successful bid was suspended for life due to 'ethics violations'. Although FIFA claimed the bribery he was accused of was not related to the vote for the world cup, his suspension only occurred when journalists supplied evidence of his bribing of officials and an investigation began. FIFA then forced this investigation to close by saying he had already been suspended. Then you could go into the human rights violations by the Qatari government in buliding the stadia. Or the fact that it was a summer world cup that was bid for and now it is suddenly going to change. Or the fact that it could be during the season for top leagues in the world. Or the fact that Qatar has some pretty dodgy opinions/rules/laws when it comes to homosexual people or women showing off what they deem to be 'too much' skin. Or the fact that Qatar have no footballing heritage whatsoever and the money the government is spending on the tournament could be better spent elsewhere.

As for Russia, when FIFA started this investigation, people had accused Russia of buying votes, but it turned out that the computers used in Russia's world cup bid process had all been destroyed less than a week after they won. How handy eh? So no evidence could be gathered into the voting process and alleged promised bid sharing between Russia '18 and Japan '20. And then you could go into Russia's current warmongering and their attitude towards racism (see: CSKA).

Then there is the vote. You can't see who voted for who (why?) and the process is really murky and not well defined. Also, look at the results of the 2018 vote. As soon as England had been knocked out of the voting people changed their voting patterns. That makes no sense. You vote for who you think wants to win, why change after 1 elimination? Seems like tactical voting to me. Same thing happened in the 2020 vote.

All of that is being coupled with FIFA's general douchebaggery over the last 10+ years (resisting goal line technology, Blatter calling demands for an investigation into the bidding process 'racist', all of the corrupt officals that have been bribed (some of which which has been proved, others which is blatantly obvious) and the constant attacks on anyone that tries to stand up to them (see: the FA).

And finally (admittedly) there is a little bit of annoyance on the part of English fans and the FA that we invented the damn sport and have only had 1 world cup in it's history even though we could host one tomorrow, but that's neither here nor there in this case.

That enough for you?

Well damn.

Tbh, England and USA should have gotten the rights for the next 2 WC's. I always thought there was some corruption involved since Qatar, the richest country in the world, won. Meh.

[Viper22 2,418]

The real truth brought out from the investigation:

[Viper22 2,418]

Well damn.

Tbh, England and USA should have gotten the rights for the next 2 WC's. I always thought there was some corruption involved since Qatar, the richest country in the world, won. Meh.

I'm going to actually disagree with England. While I think we would obviously host a great world cup I think that a Belgium/Holland world cup would be the best choice, but that's just me .

And yeah like kobe said I think the Aussies deserve a WC too, even though USA would host a great one.

[kobematabryant 400]

Right. So the main reason is because of the lack of transparency in the voting process. Qatar's bid was led by Mohammed bin Hammam, who soon after their successful bid was suspended for life due to 'ethics violations'. Although FIFA claimed the bribery he was accused of was not related to the vote for the world cup, his suspension only occurred when journalists supplied evidence of his bribing of officials and an investigation began. FIFA then forced this investigation to close by saying he had already been suspended. Then you could go into the human rights violations by the Qatari government in buliding the stadia. Or the fact that it was a summer world cup that was bid for and now it is suddenly going to change. Or the fact that it could be during the season for top leagues in the world. Or the fact that Qatar has some pretty dodgy opinions/rules/laws when it comes to homosexual people or women showing off what they deem to be 'too much' skin. Or the fact that Qatar have no footballing heritage whatsoever and the money the government is spending on the tournament could be better spent elsewhere.

As for Russia, when FIFA started this investigation, people had accused Russia of buying votes, but it turned out that the computers used in Russia's world cup bid process had all been destroyed less than a week after they won. How handy eh? So no evidence could be gathered into the voting process and alleged promised bid sharing between Russia '18 and Japan '20. And then you could go into Russia's current warmongering and their attitude towards racism (see: CSKA).

Then there is the vote. You can't see who voted for who (why?) and the process is really murky and not well defined. Also, look at the results of the 2018 vote. As soon as England had been knocked out of the voting people changed their voting patterns. That makes no sense. You vote for who you think wants to win, why change after 1 elimination? Seems like tactical voting to me. Same thing happened in the 2020 vote.

All of that is being coupled with FIFA's general douchebaggery over the last 10+ years (resisting goal line technology, Blatter calling demands for an investigation into the bidding process 'racist', all of the corrupt officals that have been bribed (some of which which has been proved, others which is blatantly obvious) and the constant attacks on anyone that tries to stand up to them (see: the FA).

And finally (admittedly) there is a little bit of annoyance on the part of English fans and the FA that we invented the damn sport and have only had 1 world cup in it's history even though we could host one tomorrow, but that's neither here nor there in this case.

That enough for you?

Very good points actually on this, we deserve at least more world cups after all we invented the sport but it just seems FIFA and the other countries' FA just dislike us, very similar shit happened to England in 2006. The real problem lies at hand with Qatar is that they don't even have football stadiums or a good football infrastructure. Like what will happen to these multi million stadiums after the World cup is over? I can see with Russia, they have a dedicated football league and have a good football background so they sort of deserve it, they are the only big European team who haven't hosted an International tournament yet.

This whole Qatar corruption thing and now I am hearing England FA will be fined, is just a smear campaign. Shame really...But I don't think boycott is the solution. Boycotting a tournament just makes England come across as bitter..

[kobematabryant 400]

Well damn.

Tbh, England and USA should have gotten the rights for the next 2 WC's. I always thought there was some corruption involved since Qatar, the richest country in the world, won. Meh.

No USA shouldn't have got the next WC. Australia should have. USA hosted the world cup in 1994, only 20 years ago.

[Viper22 2,418]

Very good points actually on this, we deserve at least more world cups after all we invented the sport but it just seems FIFA and the other countries' FA just dislike us, very similar shit happened to England in 2006. The real problem lies at hand with Qatar is that they don't even have football stadiums or a good football infrastructure. Like what will happen to these multi million stadiums after the World cup is over? I can see with Russia, they have a dedicated football league and have a good football background so they sort of deserve it, they are the only big European team who haven't hosted an International tournament yet.

This whole Qatar corruption thing and now I am hearing England FA will be fined, is just a smear campaign. Shame really...But I don't think boycott is the solution. Boycotting a tournament just makes England come across as bitter..

I don't think anyone overly has a problem with Russia tbh, as long as they clean up the racism problem. The Qatari one is the one that gets people. As @CHOULO19 said in another thread "Every country does some amount of bribing to get the world cup, it's just that Qatar went too far".

[kobematabryant 400]

I don't think anyone overly has a problem with Russia tbh, as long as they clean up the racism problem. The Qatari one is the one that gets people. As @CHOULO19 said in another thread "Every country does some amount of bribing to get the world cup, it's just that Qatar went too far".

Here's another question and something to discuss about. Qatar have hosted the AFC Asian Cup in the past and the attendances in those games were atrocious, almost empty stadiums in some games, averaging only 12k per game. This isn't suprising as this country is the same size as East Anglia of England and only has a population of 1M. The question is, will Qatar really be able to fill up their newly built 80k stadiums? Even in their games, they'd have tough time doing so.

[iseah100 5,612]

No USA shouldn't have got the next WC. Australia should have. USA hosted the world cup in 1994, only 20 years ago.

Who can host a better World Cup than the USA?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

2022....bloody hell that sounds like a millennium away with the way the situation is in the middle east. There might not even be a Qatar in 2022! Imagine all that bribing and all the controversy and discussions for nothing...

On the above, while everything @Viper22 has said is more or less true, I do think it is being taken out of perspective a bit. Qatar and the gulf in general are very conservative societies that are very different from and hence can't be held to the standards and norms of western culture. I'm not defending their homophobic laws or their 'slavery' of foreign workers, but those are not issues that have just been created by the world cup nor that will go away over night or even over decades!

I don't want to say more about this because I don't wish to start a political or cultural debate here, but the point is there are cultural differences that you can't look at strictly from your point of view.

Who can host a better World Cup than the USA?

I think the USA have A LOT of other priorities to spend money on at the moment. If I were a US citizen, I'd be livid if my government decided to host a WC with the current economic situation in the states.

I would have loved to see a WC in China or Australia. I'd have said Iran, but they need to..."lighten up" a bit..

[Viper22 2,418]

Who can host a better World Cup than the USA?

Brazil and England (you haven't seen the proper passion as the NT suck donkey balls consistently). USA are good with their passion, but football (or soccer) isn't their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or even 4th sport. It lags behind American Football, Baseball, Basketball and even Ice Hockey. Like kobe said, they only hosted it 20 years ago, let some other countries have a chance.

[Viper22 2,418]

2022....bloody hell that sounds like a millennium away with the way the situation is in the middle east. There might not even be a Qatar in 2022! Imagine all that bribing and all the controversy and discussions for nothing...

On the above, while everything @Viper22 has said is more or less true, I do think it is being taken out of perspective a bit. Qatar and the gulf in general are very conservative societies that are very different from and hence can't be held to the standards and norms of western culture. I'm not defending their homophobic laws or their 'slavery' of foreign workers, but those are not issues that have just been created by the world cup nor that will go away over night or even over decades!

I don't want to say more about this because I don't wish to start a political or cultural debate here, but the point is there are cultural differences that you can't look at strictly from your point of view.

I think the USA have A LOT of other priorities to spend money on at the moment. If I were a US citizen, I'd be livid if my government decided to host a WC with the current economic situation in the states.

I would have loved to see a WC in China or Australia. I'd have said Iran, but they need to..."lighten up" a bit..

I understand that people can have different cultures and opinions, but it's more prejudice that is the problem. For instance would WAGs have to cover up? What if Ronaldo came out gay? Would he be allowed to play? What if a gay man wanted to go and support his team? Would he be in danger?

It's just that I have a problem with, that's all. People's lives and well-being under threat. But I was just clarifying what I meant, I don't want to drag political debate in here either.

[Viper22 2,418]

If it was down to me (unlikely to ever be but whatever xD), I would set it out something like this:

2018 - Belgium/Holland

2022 - Australia

2030 - England

2034 - Uruguay/Colombia

2038 - Russia

2042 - China

2046 - Nigeria/Cameroon

2050 - Spain

Nice spread around the world. Obviously Europe would get it more often but that's because more countries in Europe are ready or close to ready whereas most other countries would need to build. Just my opinion, think all of the countries mentioned deserve the WC sooner rather than later.

As for the Euros, I would start often making that an often dual/triple hosted affair. Norway/Finland, Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales, Russia, Romania/Serbia/Bulgaria, Czech Republic/Hungary/Slovenia. The big nations have hosted it enough for now. Except for Germany.

Stuff like that IMO.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I understand that people can have different cultures and opinions, but it's more prejudice that is the problem. For instance would WAGs have to cover up? What if Ronaldo came out gay? Would he be allowed to play? What if a gay man wanted to go and support his team? Would he be in danger?

It's just that I have a problem with, that's all. But I was just clarifying what I meant, I don't want to drag political debate in here either.

Effectively, most likely there won't be drinking at the stadiums and there won't be half naked women. Other than that I'd imagine would be considered as an exception including homosexual players. Unless they start making out with their teammates on the pitch, I don't think the Qatari government would make any issues. After all, they want to send out the message that they can handle all that and host WCs and major events, but they'd still want to 'protect' their people from publicly seeing acts which they consider immoral/sinful.

I have a problem with it as well in principle. But the morals that you and I share may be the dominant in the world in the sense that they are the ethics of the most powerful countries and most of the people with internet access and who study and discuss ethics and philosophy and sociology, but the fact is, there are more humans on earth who do not hold those morals than who actually do. We don't like to think about it, but there are billions out there who belong to societies, or parts of societies, who are not 'with us in the current moment in history' because their societies have had an evolution different than that of our societies and left them unaffected by the changes in the 'globalized' morals. Yes, I know that wasn't explained well at all, but point is, you can't just shove all those people to the side and say I don't want to deal with them.

PS: I didn't mean that you in particular were taking things out of perspective or portraying them unfairly, but talking about the general view point of the public.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

Maybe next time they should decide it by putting all the qualified countries name inside the ball, and drawing it randomly.