The Pub - Discuss Anything

[Hutcho 8,443]

  On 03/03/2013 at 15:10, Stingray said:

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[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 03/03/2013 at 21:56, Stingray said:

Nice!! You know your Kant on intersubjectivity! Awesome, respect or that!! True, i have more of a positivist approach on the matter. Hence the confusion. Why ... Because of Hitler for example. So many people voted or him, did that make him say objective things? Numerous examples apply, but I forgive Kant. He lived in his own time frame and philosophy has moved on quite a bit :-) Again: respect!

I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word ) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective!

I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's.

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 03/03/2013 at 22:12, CHOULO19 said:

I think Kant's opinion on this matter still applies if you admit that objectivity is relative (as self-contradictory as that may sound ). Because any statement, be it opinion or "fact" (I don't like that word ) is relativistic to a time and a group. Just like "the earth is flat and the center of the universe" was a fact 1200 years ago and just like I'm sure some aliens from Andromeda won't find "Kagawa was good at Dortmund" objective!

I guess I call Hitler's "philosophy" objective relative to the German society in the 1930's.

Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 03/03/2013 at 22:24, Stingray said:

Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

I'll reply in a few minutes..

[Stingray 9,441]

  On 03/03/2013 at 22:39, CHOULO19 said:

I'll reply in a few minutes..

Ill read it tomorrow then my philosopher friend!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 03/03/2013 at 22:24, Stingray said:

Ow you silly postmodernist! Lol! Thou shallt not drag me into an objectivist/subjectivist debate on a football forum!

People already hate me for the memes. Go figure how popular i'd be once we hit quantumphysics or qualia in the debate :-) lmao!

Edit: shit! I cant resist! Objectivity in my sense refers to a 'taste of the pudding is in the eating' definition of truth (correspondance idea instead of identity idea). So, the matter on who is best will be one to be determined after the eating . After their careers so to speak, not because a lot of forum members think it is true NOW :-) lol!! Commit that to the flames as Hume would say. Uch opinions contain nothing but sophistry ...

Ps: you are evil, @choulo19 !

Hahaha I literally just "LOL"ed at the first part to the annoyance of my sleeping parents

The second part is where we disagree mon frere. I don't believe there is a truth but rather truths to every matter that change according to the time frame, and to the place not unlike opinions. My problem with the correspondence theory of truth is that it tries to define the mysterious concept of truth with an even more vague concept of "a" reality. The thing is everyone perceives reality different than others according to what he wants it to be, as I'm sure you as a psychologist know (How do you know that I see blue the same way you do). And everyone is convinced that his reality is true. But if there are infinite "customized" realities, and no one can see the reality, does it really exist?

The second objection is that truth changes with time. To go back to your Hitler example, had the Germans won the war, the Nazi principle would be consider now "objective" around the world instead of the capitalist principles and the truth about the war would have been what the Nazis would have written instead of what the Allies have written or what actually happened (the truth at the moment any event happened)

Now before you give that look, let me ask you this: Is there a reason that truth should exist other than that we want it to? And if that is the case wouldn't that make truth (and 'a' reality for that matter) an illusion? Isn't that how Freud defined illusion? Not something that exists (is correct) or not but rather that it is a belief that is motivated by desire, regardless if it is true or not.

(Epistemology is truly the most interesting and confusing subject in metaphysics if not all of philosophy)

Now to go back to the original point, I believe that there will be infinite and ever-changing truths and objectiveness to any point, granted that the change is swift in the time interval of the event (or subject) and that the fluctuations in the truth decrease as you go further in the future, but since an ultimate truth does not exist or we can't turn around to see it (think of Plato's shadows on the cave wall analogy) we might as well discuss who is currently better between Hazard and Kagawa according to our current truths.

PS: I had just gotten into bed and was about to sleep when I saw your reply on my phone, and I couldn't resist but to get up, turn my laptop back on give this lengthy response If I am sleepy in class tomorrow, it's all your fault!

[Rmpr 8,977]

GET OUT OF HERE!

Grab a beer, start drinking and talk about big boobs...

[Leif 6,006]

My cat just killed and brought home a rabbit. Should I be polite and have it for dinner tomorrow? He keeps meowing at me and purring at my ankles when I go near the rabbit.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

  On 03/03/2013 at 23:54, Leif said:

My cat just killed and brought home a rabbit. Should I be polite and have it for dinner tomorrow? He keeps meowing at me and purring at my ankles when I go near the rabbit.

Yes. Rabbits can be deadly so your cat is protecting you nicely.

[Spike 12,049]

I hate cats, maybe you should destroy it.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 04/03/2013 at 01:00, Spike Spiegel said:

I hate cats, maybe you should destroy it.

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

How can you not love this (i didnt like cats either):

  Reveal hidden contents

[Leif 6,006]

Hating this should be illegal

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 04/03/2013 at 01:17, Leif said:

Hating this should be illegal

Guess I will need to buy something similar.

Currently a no-toy cat...

[The Skipper 20,593]

You guys are making me want to have a cat now

[Dion 2,476]

Dogs > cats.

[Rmpr 8,977]

  On 04/03/2013 at 03:37, dionsa said:

Dogs > cats.

Dogs need care and they are everything but independent. Aint nobody got time for that...

[Kezza 1,965]

Cats suck cause everything is on their terms. Nobody owns a cat, they own you!

[Steve 10,227]

My cat owns, this is chelsea!