Chelsea 5-0 West Ham

[Vesper 28,830]

15 minutes ago, TheHulk said:

Sell Disasi and Chalobah and get Silva, that guy will be worldclass.

my CB target pool (some are pipe dreams, in italics)   

in order of valuation

Ronald Araujo
Alessandro Bastoni  lefty
Matthijs de Ligt 
Bremer  lefty
Marquinhos 
António Silva 
Giorgio Scalvini  
Ousmane Diomande 
Leny Yoro   (youth)
Gonçalo Inácio lefty
Robin Le Normand
Mohamed Simakan
Piero Hincapié lefty
Jean-Clair Todibo  
Willian Pacho  lefty
Malick Thiaw 
Alessandro Buongiorno  lefty
Riccardo Calafiori  lefty
Jorrel Hato   (youth)  lefty
El Chadaille Bitshiabu (youth) lefty

 

[Laylabelle 9,359]

2 wins in a row....fab performance. Feels so nice!!

[cosmicway 1,323]

40 minutes ago, Mhsc said:

Great game. WH were terrible. Luck has changed a bit in our favour too recently - earlier in the season all 3 of those Bowen shots off the posts would have flown in, NJ would have turned out to be 1mm offside etc.

Hopefully this is the beginning of a new era. Clear out some of the permanently injured or just shit players and 1 or 2 key signings and we should be in much better shape next season.

Nkunku has not really impressed me in a Chelsea shirt so far but obviously he needs time and a run of games without injury to really display what he can do. But his cameos have been...eh.

We have seen teams more terrible than West Ham getting away from Stamford bridge with the three points.
The difference is that we seem to have at last found ways of scoring some goals.
I 'm not talking about the clean sheet because we were lucky with Bowen hitting the crossbar three times - but we were scoring goals.
The match ended at the 3-0, West Ham also. If it was City they too would look terrible if somehow we managed to score three before the interval.

Edited May 5 by cosmicway

[LAM09 6,750]

1 hour ago, nyikolajevics said:

You are strict!! This is exactly what VAR is for.. These calls are very close in real time. We tend to forget how many bad decisions are correct now bc of VAR.

Caicedo and Connor work very well together, will be interesting to see how Enzo and Lavia(and Andrey Santos and Ugo) will be reintegrated.

Use the automated system that was present at the WC & used in the CL, IIRC. It was a straight forward decision (I'd imagine almost everyone could tell from a still image).

Casadei could have a say as well. Let's hope they are available for the majority of next season.

[bluesman2610 1,341]

4 hours ago, King Kante said:

One through ball through a massive hole doesn't make for a good passer, but if you want to pretend it does go for it. A little bit like that video that got posted saying that he was a good passer and all it showed were long balls hit with zero zip. 

Anyway, I don't want to piss on the parade today.

Another good result, albeit WH were awful. Noni was the MotM for me and it is good to see how the front line are coming along. Trev also showed to me again why he should be kept, Badman also had a good game, using his size well. That is yet another game where the defence has looked stable without Disaster being all over the place positionally. 

That wasn’t the first time he made a defence breaking pass it’s just one of the only times that our forwards have finished it. If you watch Caicedo is actually pretty good on the ball. A few mistakes for a 22 year old footballer doesn’t make him poor passer.

 

 

[robsblubot 3,504]

19 minutes ago, bluesman2610 said:

That wasn’t the first time he made a defence breaking pass it’s just one of the only times that our forwards have finished it. If you watch Caicedo is actually pretty good on the ball. A few mistakes for a 22 year old footballer doesn’t make him poor passer.

 

 

I don't really see what's controversial about Caicedo's game. He's got 2 assist in 31 appearances and 0 goals, with at least one of the assists in a 5x0 win.

Any way you look at his numbers will show the very same thing: he's a very good ball-wining mid, but lacks contribution in attack and possession. We all have different takes as to how much he can improve that side of his game -- never seen a drastic improvement on the skill side myself tho.

They all show the same thing--here's one:
https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650

[King Kante 1,478]

44 minutes ago, bluesman2610 said:

That wasn’t the first time he made a defence breaking pass it’s just one of the only times that our forwards have finished it. If you watch Caicedo is actually pretty good on the ball. A few mistakes for a 22 year old footballer doesn’t make him poor passer.

 

 

Sorry, but a highlights clip isn't going to change my mind. I see him week in, week out down the bridge and see things that do not always come across on TV. As @robsblubotsays, he is a good ball winner but he lacks skills on the ball.

Personally, I do not have him in the Disas(ter)i category yet where I am saying that he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI ever - although he for sure should've been dropped at times this season -it is more that I just don't see him as a DM/CM that teams that want to win things need. Furthermore, I don't see how he develops that side of the game as typically with players that explode, they have the technical side then explode physically which adds another dimension to their game.

Maybe Caicedo gets stronger physically and, with that, becomes almost unplayable in his recovery of the ball, however he isn't - imo - going to become a midfield of sufficient technical ability to take a team to the league title or anything like that - for sure he may be part of a team to do so, but he will be a secondary part of the starting XI rather than a main man.

[robsblubot 3,504]

3 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Sorry, but a highlights clip isn't going to change my mind. I see him week in, week out down the bridge and see things that do not always come across on TV. As @robsblubotsays, he is a good ball winner but he lacks skills on the ball.

Personally, I do not have him in the Disas(ter)i category yet where I am saying that he shouldn't be anywhere near the first XI ever - although he for sure should've been dropped at times this season -it is more that I just don't see him as a DM/CM that teams that want to win things need. Furthermore, I don't see how he develops that side of the game as typically with players that explode, they have the technical side then explode physically which adds another dimension to their game.

Maybe Caicedo gets stronger physically and, with that, becomes almost unplayable in his recovery of the ball, however he isn't - imo - going to become a midfield of sufficient technical ability to take a team to the league title or anything like that - for sure he may be part of a team to do so, but he will be a secondary part of the starting XI rather than a main man.

Agreed that he should be improved on if we want to go for the league, but reckon we are so far from that that I really don't see any urgency in replacing him.

I think we have a pretty obvious winner as to the best system for the PL; Liverpool disrupted that a bit, but in the end, the consistency of the positional play (aka total football) just works in long championships as City demonstrates.
Our squad has a lot of direct players esp in attack. Noni, for ex, has been improving the teamwork side of his game, but he's still a very direct player. Mudryk ... never mind. Jackson fares better as he can shield the ball well enough, keep it at pace, but also not a possession-oriented attacker at this time. That leaves Palmer, who is unsurprisingly good at keeping the ball -- having come from city.
Gallagher is not a possession maestro either -- far from it. Enzo is perhaps the most suitable midfield player for that system, which made the early idea of moving him to a CAM position really bizarre to me.

Yeah, so I think we are stuck with this direct way to play for a while regardless of manager choice.

[MoroccanBlue 5,302]

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Christ almighty he’s more than fine on the ball. This game alone I saw Caicedo drop the shoulder and send Paqueta back to Brazil and dribble past the entire west ham midfield. As far as through balls/xT are concerned, either you are pretending to not see them to suit your agenda or you’re blind as a bat.  

Edited May 5 by MoroccanBlue

[robsblubot 3,504]

4 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Christ almighty he’s more than fine on the ball. This game alone I saw Caicedo drop the shoulder and send Paqueta back to Brazil and dribble past the entire west ham midfield. As far as through balls/xT are concerned, either you are pretending to not see them to suit your agenda or you’re blind as a bat.  

https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650
or do you only use stats when it suits your agenda? welcome to find any piece of data that corroborates your view of Caicedo's game.
I will definitely take a look and consider it as new data, as it may contain something I missed.

[King Kante 1,478]

49 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Lmao never change TalkChelsea never change. You’d think Caicedo was fucking Bakayoko with the way some members speak about him. 😂

 

Christ almighty he’s more than fine on the ball. This game alone I saw Caicedo drop the shoulder and send Paqueta back to Brazil and dribble past the entire west ham midfield. As far as through balls/xT are concerned, either you are pretending to not see them to suit your agenda or you’re blind as a bat.  

1) Not true, that isn't what people are saying. Caicedo is a functional player, just not one with the required technical skills to be an elite player or a player to drag his team through games when the chips are down. 

2) Hyperbole. West Ham lined up in a 4231 formation. Please post a video/gif of where he dribbled past five WH players. Even fecking Hazard only went past three we he scored that beautiful goal against them. 

3) Evidence please. 

Edited May 5 by King Kante

[Thor 2,392]

42 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

https://www.sofascore.com/player/moises-caicedo/987650
or do you only use stats when it suits your agenda? welcome to find any piece of data that corroborates your view of Caicedo's game.
I will definitely take a look and consider it as new data, as it may contain something I missed.

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

[King Kante 1,478]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

If you do a season average score comparison between Gallagher and Caicedo, Gallagher has the higher score and he is meant to be so sh*t that most of the forum wanted him sold in the summer at any cost. This is also before considering Gallagher has only just recently been put in his natural position whereas Caicedo has played in his all season. 

Edited May 5 by King Kante

[robsblubot 3,504]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

What stats are you pointing to exactly, because that shows very good stats... lol

"Very good stats." that's not the discussion here. 🙂 
I'm pointing out the skill side of his game, esp in attack, which was the *specific* point I was replying to.

[Thor 2,392]

3 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

"Very good stats." that's not the discussion here. 🙂 
I'm pointing out the skill side of his game, esp in attack, which was the *specific* point I was replying to.

His role is to sit behind and act as the deterrent. What stats did you want him to have? He has significantly more progressive passing and pass completion compared to Conor over the season... What more proof do you want - or are you using a single game pool of data to harp on? 

He isn't asked to play the same role as Brighton exactly. Conor is the one that pushes more forward. In reality, these two should be replacing each other on a week to week basis and we should have more of a DM. 

Caceido is the one that is fitting more into a DM role kind of like how Kante was asked to play out of position in Sarri ball and people were saying he fell off or wasn't as good - which just wasn't the case as we saw a year later. 

[robsblubot 3,504]

7 minutes ago, Thor said:

His role is to sit behind and act as the deterrent. What stats did you want him to have? He has significantly more progressive passing and pass completion compared to Conor over the season... What more proof do you want - or are you using a single game pool of data to harp on? 

He isn't asked to play the same role as Brighton exactly. Conor is the one that pushes more forward. In reality, these two should be replacing each other on a week to week basis and we should have more of a DM. 

Caceido is the one that is fitting more into a DM role kind of like how Kante was asked to play out of position in Sarri ball and people were saying he fell off or wasn't as good - which just wasn't the case as we saw a year later. 

yes, Gallagher is certainly the mid with most freedom esp when Enzo does not play. I just don't see Caicedo having the skillset needed to thrive when moving into these contested areas, it takes a different type of player more in the mould of Enzo. What he did at Brighton might have been important at the time we signed him--now I rather just take what I see from 31 appearances.

My main concern is that the role in question, the deterrent as you call it (aka ball-winning mid), does not even exist in the team that wins the league every year.

[Strike 7,217]

Midfield unit looks stronger because of Cucurella tweak. No longer leaving <many> empty spaces to attack at least. Long way to go but last few weeks have been something (except for the Arsenal game)

[Strike 7,217]

8 hours ago, robsblubot said:

yes, Gallagher is certainly the mid with most freedom esp when Enzo does not play. I just don't see Caicedo having the skillset needed to thrive when moving into these contested areas, it takes a different type of player more in the mould of Enzo. What he did at Brighton might have been important at the time we signed him--now I rather just take what I see from 31 appearances.

My main concern is that the role in question, the deterrent as you call it (aka ball-winning mid), does not even exist in the team that wins the league every year.

Yeah, even the ball-winning mid needs to be able to break the lines, progress the ball. I don't think Caicedo is out of his depth and I think he can contribute. Anyway we are locked in with him for 8 years.