The Next Manager?

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People are all emotional about the Jose rumors, it is only normal that any other manager will get criticized. Everyone wants Jose, me included, but till now, it's just a fairy tale. Pelligrini is the best out of the realistic options we have along with Hiddink.

He's the best in your opinion.

Personally I'd rather go with someone who knows this league and has shown an ability to surpass expectations. Moyes has done that. He's shown a pragmatism that we need, but also a genuine desire to build a team that plays nice football and integrates young players.

Any option who isn't Jose or Klopp is a step down and a big risk, but I've seen nothing to suggest that Pellegrini is any better of an option than Moyes. Neither has a fantastic resume, but at least one has experience of English football which is something that some people simply don't acknowledge as a factor possibly because of their own experiences.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

He's the best in your opinion.

Personally I'd rather go with someone who knows this league and has shown an ability to surpass expectations. Moyes has done that. He's shown a pragmatism that we need, but also a genuine desire to build a team that plays nice football and integrates young players.

Any option who isn't Jose or Klopp is a step down and a big risk, but I've seen nothing to suggest that Pellegrini is any better of an option than Moyes. Neither has a fantastic resume, but at least one has experience of English football which is something that some people simply don't acknowledge as a factor possibly because of their own experiences.

Obviously the two don't have a good resume, although Pelligrini has managed at the very top level, I mean he was just managing last week in the quarter finals of the CL, unlike Moyes. Pelligrini is better tactician, imo. His teams are always very organized with close lines and efficiency in attack. The main argument against Moyes for me, is the one you mentioned actually: His philosophy is built around cheap buys and integrating young players. How in the world is that going to work out here? I feel that Moyes is just not suited for us, he'd be way out of his depth here, imo.

All that said, what makes you think Moyes would come here? He's done fantastically well at Everton that his name has become synonymous with the team. Why would he throw all that away just to manage Chelsea for half a season?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Obviously the two don't have a good resume, although Pelligrini has managed at the very top level, I mean he was just managing last week in the quarter finals of the CL, unlike Moyes. Pelligrini is better tactician, imo. His teams are always very organized with close lines and efficiency in attack. The main argument against Moyes for me, is the one you mentioned actually: His philosophy is built around cheap buys and integrating young players. How in the world is that going to work out here? I feel that Moyes is just not suited for us, he'd be way out of his depth here, imo.

All that said, what makes you think Moyes would come here? He's done fantastically well at Everton that his name has become synonymous with the team. Why would he throw all that away just to manage Chelsea for half a season?

His cheap buys have taken Everton into the top four twice and finish one spot behind us last season, although don't confuse philosophy with the restrictions of his job. He didn't choose not to spend £30 million on a striker based on philosophical objections.

Pellegrini does have experience with spending hundreds of millions of pounds in a single summer though. The fact that he lost to a French team in the Champions League and was sacked 12 months later is perhaps an indicator of how successful he was though.

Tactically I think they both have things to offer this club - the difference is that Moyes knows what tactics work in this league. Pellegrini has no experience of the Premier League. He has no experience of the FA Cup. He has no experience of Stamford Bridge.

But he can speak English, he's cheap and no-one will give a fuck when we sack him in 2014. Sign him up!!

Getting Pellegrini is an unambitious acceptance of the status quo - but we'll probably finish top four and probably have a nice cup run. Yay!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

His cheap buys have taken Everton into the top four twice and finish one spot behind us last season, although don't confuse philosophy with the restrictions of his job. He didn't choose not to spend £30 million on a striker based on philosophical objections.

Pellegrini does have experience with spending hundreds of millions of pounds in a single summer though. The fact that he lost to a French team in the Champions League and was sacked 12 months later is perhaps an indicator of how successful he was though.

Tactically I think they both have things to offer this club - the difference is that Moyes knows what tactics work in this league. Pellegrini has no experience of the Premier League. He has no experience of the FA Cup. He has no experience of Stamford Bridge.

But he can speak English, he's cheap and no-one will give a fuck when we sack him in 2014. Sign him up!!

Getting Pellegrini is an unambitious acceptance of the status quo - but we'll probably finish top four and probably have a nice cup run. Yay!

Well, you haven't really addressed the points I raised, so let me put them more clearly:

1) Not sure how much of Pelligrini's teams you've watched, but his sides are always very organized with close lines, good defensive work-rate and very efficient attack. In my mind, he is a much better tactician than Moyes.

2) Pelligrini has managed at the top level. You can't judge his time at real from just that loss in the CL. The 96 points he accumulated in the league were a stellar achievement, but it happened to coincide with Barcelona having one of the best season in the history. He got sacked because of the political issues inside the club that every knew of. But I don't mean just Real. He managed both Villareal and Malaga in the CL and has taken them far in the competition. He's made the CL semifinal and the quarter finals twice. That is valuable European experience that Moyes does not have.

3) Moyes might have PL experience, but his tactics and 'philosophy' at Everton is unlikely to work out here. Even if you put aside the fact about Moyes liking to integrate youth players into his teams, which he obviously won't be able to do here. Everton, play some nice football, but they're still built as physical team that dominate opponents with strength. Everton rely on long balls and crosses into the box. That won't work here with the likes of Mata and Oscar and Hazad. We're looking to play fast paced football with short ground passes; the kind of football Pelligrini is known for. It's a completely different philosophy. That's why I don't think Moyes is suited for Chelsea. In fact, if we're going for managers who know the league, I'd rather Martinez over Moyes, tbh.

4) Finally, again, what makes you think Moyes would even want to come here. Why would Moyes leave all the great work he's done at Everton just to manage Chelsea for half a season? On the other hand, we know for a fact that Pelligrini is interested in coming here and he has stated that he would like to manage in the PL.

[Jase 43,479]

Just something about David Moyes. I would not necessarily be against his appointment simply because he knows the league very well and one thing you are likely to be guaranteed from his team is that the players will give a 100%(or close to it at least) in performances every game. However, the issue does come when you look at his track record in terms of winning trophies. Yes, he has done extremely very well at Everton to make them competitive as possible on a shoe string budget but even then, he has managed quite a few good Everton sides that should be winning or have won at least 2-3 trophies in the past 10 years and hasn't. And when you see Swansea won the League Cup this season, in Laudrup's first season, it kinda makes one wonder if Moyes has ability to drag his players over the finishing line in really big crunch matches.

Also, when you look at his record agains the big teams in the league, he has yet to win at Emirates(or Highbury), Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and Anfield in his years at Everton. I know it's not easy to win at those grounds but it's rather staggering that he has yet to win at any of those grounds. Furthermore, Moyes's tactics can be a bit of a suspect. Sometimes, he a bit too rigid in it and seem rather unwilling to take the risk to change things around. And not to mention, he can be a bit negative with it as we have seen in the past. Despite not being able to play in the Champions League so far, Everton have played a fair bit of games in Europe in the UEFA Cup previously and they have not exactly done all too well in it especially when playing against decent sides such as Benfica and Sporting Lisbon. They even lost 5-1 to Dinamo Bucharest at one point!

[xPetrCechx 13,570]

Chelsea 'in talks with Pellegrini', claim reports

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/202997.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/18/chelsea-malaga-manuel-pellegrini-benitez

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/10002227/Chelsea-open-talks-with-Manuel-Pellegrini-over-summer-switch-to-Stamford-Bridge.html

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He's the best in your opinion.

Personally I'd rather go with someone who knows this league and has shown an ability to surpass expectations. Moyes has done that. He's shown a pragmatism that we need, but also a genuine desire to build a team that plays nice football and integrates young players.

Any option who isn't Jose or Klopp is a step down and a big risk, but I've seen nothing to suggest that Pellegrini is any better of an option than Moyes. Neither has a fantastic resume, but at least one has experience of English football which is something that some people simply don't acknowledge as a factor possibly because of their own experiences.

Everton play nice football? this nice football has been displayed (in patches) only in this season. in the years prior to that Moyes' Everton team was built around target-men to hoof the ball to them.

Yakubu - Louis Saha - Anichebe - Tim Cahill - Jo were his strikers before Jelavic (Anichebe is still around). All 5 of them are aerial players who would compete in the air. Moyes has always had a target-man to play through. There's no way that philosophy will even be entertained here. This season however with Mirallas and Pienaar etc, Everton have increasingly played on the floor but they are still hoofing the ball up when they need goals. In fact, Everton have scored highest no. of headed goals in the top-flight -13.

In contrast, Pellegrini's teams have maintained good passing football right from his Villarreal days.

[Strike 7,474]

Just something about David Moyes. I would not necessarily be against his appointment simply because he knows the league very well and one thing you are likely to be guaranteed from his team is that the players will give a 100%(or close to it at least) in performances every game. However, the issue does come when you look at his track record in terms of winning trophies. Yes, he has done extremely very well at Everton to make them competitive as possible on a shoe string budget but even then, he has managed quite a few good Everton sides that should be winning or have won at least 2-3 trophies in the past 10 years and hasn't. And when you see Swansea won the League Cup this season, in Laudrup's first season, it kinda makes one wonder if Moyes has ability to drag his players over the finishing line in really big crunch matches.

Also, when you look at his record agains the big teams in the league, he has yet to win at Emirates(or Highbury), Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford and Anfield in his years at Everton. I know it's not easy to win at those grounds but it's rather staggering that he has yet to win at any of those grounds. Furthermore, Moyes's tactics can be a bit of a suspect. Sometimes, he a bit too rigid in it and seem rather unwilling to take the risk to change things around. And not to mention, he can be a bit negative with it as we have seen in the past. Despite not being able to play in the Champions League so far, Everton have played a fair bit of games in Europe in the UEFA Cup previously and they have not exactly done all too well in it especially when playing against decent sides such as Benfica and Sporting Lisbon. They even lost 5-1 to Dinamo Bucharest at one point!

Everton have blown 8 'Home' FA Cup ties in 11 seasons under Moyes. Fulham ® 2004, United 2005, Chelsea ® 2006, Blackburn- 2007, Oldham - 2008, Birmingham - 2010, Reading -2011, Wigan - 2013.

I think there are 6-7 winnable games there. Plus most of those games were 4th or 5th round. His Cup record is very overrated because he reached one final and also because Everton is the proverbial underdog

[The only place to be 11,313]

Well, you haven't really addressed the points I raised, so let me put them more clearly:

1) Not sure how much of Pelligrini's teams you've watched, but his sides are always very organized with close lines, good defensive work-rate and very efficient attack. In my mind, he is a much better tactician than Moyes.

I could make the same generalities about Moyes. He gets his teams working hard for one another despite the limitations at Goodison.

2) Pelligrini has managed at the top level. You can't judge his time at real from just that loss in the CL. The 96 points he accumulated in the league were a stellar achievement, but it happened to coincide with Barcelona having one of the best season in the history. He got sacked because of the political issues inside the club that every knew of. But I don't mean just Real. He managed both Villareal and Malaga in the CL and has taken them far in the competition. He's made the CL semifinal and the quarter finals twice. That is valuable European experience that Moyes does not have.

Very true - but he has no English experience and we are still an English Premier League club first. That is our bread and butter and Moyes has proven himself to be one of the best young British managers in this league - and being British does matter to some fans.

3) Moyes might have PL experience, but his tactics and 'philosophy' at Everton is unlikely to work out here. Even if you put aside the fact about Moyes liking to integrate youth players into his teams, which he obviously won't be able to do here. Everton, play some nice football, but they're still built as physical team that dominate opponents with strength. Everton rely on long balls and crosses into the box. That won't work here with the likes of Mata and Oscar and Hazad. We're looking to play fast paced football with short ground passes; the kind of football Pelligrini is known for. It's a completely different philosophy. That's why I don't think Moyes is suited for Chelsea. In fact, if we're going for managers who know the league, I'd rather Martinez over Moyes, tbh.

His philosophy? Is that still 'cheap buys' because I don't think he'll have the same restrictions here. And why won't he be able to integrate young players into the team? I thought we were supposed to be changing our philosophy as a club - apparently some people want to pretend it's still 2008.

In terms of football, he's a pragmatic man but he has shown a desire to play nice football. He just doesn't do that when it threatens the result - a bit like Mourinho in fact. Martinez isn't a bad shout considering his work at both Swansea and Wigan.

4) Finally, again, what makes you think Moyes would even want to come here. Why would Moyes leave all the great work he's done at Everton just to manage Chelsea for half a season? On the other hand, we know for a fact that Pelligrini is interested in coming here and he has stated that he would like to manage in the PL.

Why would Pellegrini come here for just half a season?

Moyes is out of contract and seems ready to take that next step. He knows the league and he's demonstrated many of the qualities we need, in the Premier League. Pellegrini is an uninspired, uninspiring choice who is simply a seat-filler until the next flavour of the month comes along next year. I'm bored of that. I'm bored of the constant speculation about who the next manager will be and I think Moyes might be given a bit more leeway not just by the club but also by the media.

Pellegrini will just be seen as Scolari Mk.2. Or AVB mk.2.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Everton play nice football? this nice football has been displayed (in patches) only in this season. in the years prior to that Moyes' Everton team was built around target-men to hoof the ball to them.

Yakubu - Louis Saha - Anichebe - Tim Cahill - Jo were his strikers before Jelavic (Anichebe is still around). All 5 of them are aerial players who would compete in the air. Moyes has always had a target-man to play through. There's no way that philosophy will even be entertained here. This season however with Mirallas and Pienaar etc, Everton have increasingly played on the floor but they are still hoofing the ball up when they need goals. In fact, Everton have scored highest no. of headed goals in the top-flight -13.

In contrast, Pellegrini's teams have maintained good passing football right from his Villarreal days.

You do realise we played with Drogba under Mourinho, and that plenty of fans were saying we needed a bit more physicality against City because we looked so lightweight.

Everton play the way they do because it gets results. That pragmatism is something we had under Mourinho and to discount Moyes based on that is rather absurd.

[Jase 43,479]

Not that I'm championing for David Moyes to be appointed(and he's not without his own flaws either) but it's funny that some seem to have completely hype up Pellegrini's success(if you can call it that) at Villarreal, Madrid and Malaga and downplay Moyes's when on the grand scale of things, their record is almost identical in terms of winning trophies at the highest level. Yes, Pellegrini may have done well in guiding both Villarreal and Malaga to the latter stages of the Champions League in their debut season but can that really be considered as a success or a true measure what Pellegrini is about? It is only one season after all and not saying those teams got lucky to get there(or maybe they do) but sometimes, teams in debut competitions like that can go far because of the surprise and freshness factor about them that other teams do not know about. Ivan Jovanovic guided APOEL to the Champions League quarter finals last season on an even smaller budget scale. Maybe we should go hire him...

When you look beyond that fact, he didn't exactly did too well with Madrid in the same competition, did he? Got out of the group stage but failed to beat Milan twice in it and couldn't break Madrid's Last 16 jinx by losing out to Lyon. I know the previous coaches have all failed to do it but when you look at the talent he had at his disposal, he really should be doing much better. Furthermore, it's also worth remembering that his Madrid side lost embarrassingly 4-0 to Alcorcon in the Copa Del Rey in that same season. For all the supposed greatness that has been talked about Pellegrini, his record in the Copa Del Rey isn't all that impressive.

Villarreal

2004/05: LOST in Round of 64 - Girona

2005/06: LOST in Last 16 - Valencia

2006/07: LOST in Last 16 - Vallodolid

2007/08: LOST in QF - Barcelona

2008/09: LOST in Last 32 - Poli Ejido

Real Madrid

2009/10: LOST in Last 32 - Alcorcon

Malaga

2010/11: LOST in Last 16 - Sevilla

2011/12: LOST in Last 16 - Real Madrid

2012/13: LOST in QF - Barcelona

Isn't that record a tad similar to Moyes's in the League Cup and FA Cup, always losing out early and not being able to get over the finishing line?

As for the playing style, Pellegrini has his team play good football and being organized but isn't that also identical to Moyes's Everton? It's one thing playing good football and getting the results and another doing those by getting over the finishing line and win the trophies. Both Pellegrini and Moyes's style of play have brought the best out of their respective teams (Malaga & Villarreal for Pellegrini) in achieving the results but neither have won any trophies with them despite this apparent success. In Pellegrini's case, he didn't achieve any of it either with much more talented players at Madrid and when you see what Mourinho achieved after him, it does kinda put out the question whether Pellegrini actually has the capability of succeeding at the very top level by bringing out the best in the players like Mourinho has done with Madrid. Pellegrini looks like one of those managers who over-achieves with smaller clubs and under-achieves with the bigger ones.

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You do realise we played with Drogba under Mourinho, and that plenty of fans were saying we needed a bit more physicality against City because we looked so lightweight.

Everton play the way they do because it gets results. That pragmatism is something we had under Mourinho and to discount Moyes based on that is rather absurd.

And where is Drogba now? We are moving on from Mourinho's team aren't we? it's rather absurd that you hail Everton for playing 'nice' football one post and then defend their physicality the next post

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@,

The Champions League is a whole different level from the FA Cup. Everton winning the FA Cup is plausible, as you said, but Malaga or Villarreal coming even close to the final of CL isn't. He reached the semis once and the Quarters twice. That is THREE different seasons where he has taken his team to the Quarters or beyond. That is why his achievements in the Champions League is noted on his resume. Moreover, Pellegrini also finished 2nd in the league with Villarreal in 08-09 - 10 points ahead of Barca.

Pellegrini has his flaws. Both he and Moyes are up near the top of the list due to lack of options. Pellegrini is a bit soft-spoken and reserved. his record in the Copa del rey is rather alarming as you put it but apart from Jose, there is no candidate who will be widely accepted. The comparison we are making here is solely between Pellegrini and Moyes and tactically, Pellegrini is more competent and more suited to current Chelsea team than Moyes' rugged hard-working style.

[Styles 9,790]

You do realise we played with Drogba under Mourinho, and that plenty of fans were saying we needed a bit more physicality against City because we looked so lightweight.

Everton play the way they do because it gets results. That pragmatism is something we had under Mourinho and to discount Moyes based on that is rather absurd.

I understand your wider point but just wanted to touch on this as a general point. We don't need physicality. We need good players and a manager who can coach them properly. Our play is massively disorganised (particularly in midfield) and we don't have a coordinated pressing system that all the best teams in Europe seem to do at the moment.

I watched every City game in the Champions League this season because their group was very interesting. Ajax played City off the park twice this season and they don't have big and powerful players in every position. They just pressed them well and kept the ball moving. Dortmund and Madrid pressed them and forced them into errors and made them look silly. We on the other hand let City have their way and have looked inferior to them 4 times this season.

We need proper coaching far more than we need physicality. That's why all this talk of players like Fellaini makes me cringe.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I understand your wider point but just wanted to touch on this as a general point. We don't need physicality. We need good players and a manager who can coach them properly. Our play is massively disorganised (particularly in midfield) and we don't have a coordinated pressing system that all the best teams in Europe seem to do at the moment.

I watched every City game in the Champions League this season because their group was very interesting. Ajax played City off the park twice this season and they don't have big and powerful players in every position. They just pressed them well and kept the ball moving. Dortmund and Madrid pressed them and forced them into errors and made them look silly. We on the other hand let City have their way and have looked inferior to them 4 times this season.

We need proper coaching far more than we need physicality. That's why all this talk of players like Fellaini makes me cringe.

I actually agree that we don't need an influx of physicality and made a similar point in the match thread. I actually think it's unfair to say Moyes simply relies on physical players - the one thing he's shown in his time at Everton is an ability to use the players he have to get results, hence Fellaini's move into an advanced position. He's a DM but they're used his unique tools to great effect further forward.

And where is Drogba now? We are moving on from Mourinho's team aren't we? it's rather absurd that you hail Everton for playing 'nice' football one post and then defend their physicality the next post

Again, the one thing I like about Moyes is his pragmatic approach to football which is similar to Mourinho's.

I'm not for a moment saying appointing Moyes means guaranteed success, but if we're not going to get Jose back then I think he's the best of what's left. Pellegrini is just such an uninspiring choice for a manager, and it just reminds me so much of Scolari's appointment.

He's been a manager for 25 years and has ONE SEASON at a top club, where he spent £200 million and finished second in the league. Yes he got lots of points but you don't get a trophy for that. Then there's the Champions League exit to a French team. He's got no experience of the Premier League and up until 12 months ago I don't know if any English club had expressed an interest in him.

Is anyone actually excited by the prospect of seeing him take charge of our first game of next season?

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I actually agree that we don't need an influx of physicality and made a similar point in the match thread. I actually think it's unfair to say Moyes simply relies on physical players - the one thing he's shown in his time at Everton is an ability to use the players he have to get results, hence Fellaini's move into an advanced position. He's a DM but they're used his unique tools to great effect further forward.

Again, the one thing I like about Moyes is his pragmatic approach to football which is similar to Mourinho's.

I'm not for a moment saying appointing Moyes means guaranteed success, but if we're not going to get Jose back then I think he's the best of what's left. Pellegrini is just such an uninspiring choice for a manager, and it just reminds me so much of Scolari's appointment.

He's been a manager for 25 years and has ONE SEASON at a top club, where he spent £200 million and finished second in the league. Yes he got lots of points but you don't get a trophy for that. Then there's the Champions League exit to a French team. He's got no experience of the Premier League and up until 12 months ago I don't know if any English club had expressed an interest in him.

Is anyone actually excited by the prospect of seeing him take charge of our first game of next season?

I agree that Pellegrini has got his flaws. I don't exactly love his reserved, soft-spoken style. I would prefer a more 'In-Your-Face' manager actually but in the current market, there are only so few managers left for Chelsea to pick from and from that pool I prefer Pellegrini. You prefer Moyes and we've been at it for what? 24 hours now? my fingers are starting to numb from the typing. so let's just agree to disagree and move on now.

If Jose doesn't come, nobody will be excited by any new manager.

[Bosnian Blue 2,471]

I agree that Pellegrini has got his flaws. I don't exactly love his reserved, soft-spoken style. I would prefer a more 'In-Your-Face' manager actually but in the current market, there are only so few managers left for Chelsea to pick from and from that pool I prefer Pellegrini. You prefer Moyes and we've been at it for what? 24 hours now? my fingers are starting to numb from the typing. so let's just agree to disagree and move on now.

If Jose doesn't come, nobody will be excited by any new manager.

Not true. Even do I believe he is coming back, I'd be very excited if Moyes takes over, or another young and ambitious manager.

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Not true. Even do I believe he is coming back, I'd be very excited if Moyes takes over, or another young and ambitious manager.

I meant relative to Jose, it'll be dud

If Moyes comes - I'll be like - Okay, I hope he can sign 2-3 good players. Then we can challenge for the title

If Jose comes - HOLY SHIT! We'll be Champions again