The Next Manager?

[Rhino's Skin 972]

I love that I'm apparently a Mourinho cultist. Makes me wonder what I was doing before he arrived at the club. Would it be fair if I called you an Emenalo cultist. Does your support predate his time here I wonder?

Actually don't answer that. It's not worth talking to someone who is disrespectful to fellow Chelsea supporters.

How very cynical of you. But I think it's a distraction. Why now? Why not 6 months ago?

Completely cynical of me.....;-)

But then again, look at recent fans favourites who are icons at the club. Jose, JT, Frank and DD......when one has to go because of difficult circumstances, then who better to bring in no matter what capacity to keep fans onside.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

so Guus speaks very favourably about Steve Holland and implies that clubs shouldnt be afraid to promote from within.

You heard here first folks.....Steve Holland next Chelsea manager ;-)

[stroey 2,525]

Ah yes ofcourse, Mourinho had no power or control here. Just a helpless bystander as Emenalo sold all of Mourinho's favorite players like De Bruyne, Mata, Luiz, Luis and Lukaku. Diabolical that Emenalo.

Quick question. If, according to you, Emenalo was in charge of bringing in the players and Mourinho didn't have any power or control here doesn't that mean that Emenalo was actually responsible for winning us the title last season and not "the individual".

Seriously though. Getting fed up with these Mourinho cultists rewriting history, scapegoating Emenalo and acting as if Mourinho is the victim in all this while he was actually the architect to this nightmare of a season we're having.

Also @ Ossie : Could you stop with this "we didn't back him" crap already ? It's ridiculous. I already posted it twice. We spent over 300 million euros on 13 players in the last 5 transferwindows. We backed him.

Backing a manager doesn't mean buying every single player he wants no matter how insane the transfer fee.

So what if he didn't get Pogba (Juve wanted 90 million euros for him) or Stones (Everton wanted over 50 million euros for him). That's not a valid reason for "leading" us to 1 point off relegation.

What you're trying to interpret is like I said Jose had 0% power and control but I did not say this, so please don't make up things. I said, in order to succeed you must have full power and control (100%) of the transfers and targets. The world is not black or white, there are things in between. Not able to buy because the lack of money is one thing, but to have money to buy players and getting Djilobodji, Baba and Hector from Emenalo is another thing.

You're either a sheep that likes attention from the Emenalo cultists (your pic proves that), a Mourinho hater or a person with a very low IQ.

But your point to say the club spent 300M + on players suggests you're in the latest category too, so I suggest you should go back to school to learn the difference between gross spend and net spend, or maybe try to Google it.

But OK, I assume you're too lazy for that so I will explain it baby language for you:

The club spent (net) 52 millions in 5 windows. To compare: Arsenal 106M, City 178M, United 238M, Liverpool 99M.

So what does it say? It means in order to buy a player that manager wants, he has to sell another player for big value. But does it automatically mean that the manager didn't like the player that has to be sold? No, it means you have to choose between 2 valuable assets/options.

Nobody on here, can convince me or even themselves that Jose Mourinho didn't like David Luiz. Luiz played all the big games in midfield instead of Mikel, Oscar and Lampard in the second half of the 2013-14 season. So does it mean Jose didn't value him? No it means he had to sell him in order to buy other players that he wanted. Mata played more than Schurrle, KDB wanted to leave and Lukaku wanted a guarantee to be the first striker. He needed to sell these guys to get main targets like Diego, Cesc, Luis and Matic who won us the league.

But before you're going to say ''yeah but he clearly didn't like Mata, KDB, Luis and Lukaku, that's why the club sold them.'' I'd tell you, even if that was really the case that he didn't like them, and Jose had the 100% power and control of transfers, wouldn't he replace them with other Jose Mourinho type of players to add depth on the bench? Why aren't there any of Khedira, Higuain/Benteke, Sneijder, Callejon, Isco, Raul Garcia, Miranda, Luisao on our bench then?

But what is the reality? We still have the same bad quality depth, Mikel is still our first back up as CDM, Baba an unproven left back as our first back up. Djilobodji as our 4th center back, Ramires as our only box to box player, no top class striker to compete with Diego and Oscar as a starting player. And that's because the club was not 100% buying the players the manager wanted, and because they were reluctant to spend extra money.

Which big club in the world would sell your 2 times player of the year to a direct rival, in the middle of the season? Which big club waits 1 year long to get the ideal striker without getting a decent one now? Which big club has such bad bench options like ours? Which big club would ignore the pleads of the manager after winning the league? Which club would strengthen a direct rival with your club legend without strengthening yourself? Which club would be more busy with breaking records of players on loan rather than looking for quality for the first team? Which big club would get 0 first team additions after winning the league? Which club would get Djilobodji and Hector on deadline day to save your season? Which club would finish the deal of your only left footed left back option when the season is already 3 weeks old? Which big club uses a ''1 out first then 1 in'' transfer strategy? Which big club would be more busy with balancing the books than strengthening the squad?

The above piece summarizes the backing Jose got from the board and the ambition from the club. Yes Jose was not a victim that had 0% power and control but it was clear as day that he did not have 100% power and control. So please let your Cinderella stories rest that he was fully backed by the board in the 2,5 years here.

And no, this not an excuse for Mourinho to be sitting at 1 point above relegation. The club failed as a collective unit this season, including the players and Jose.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

What you're trying to interpret is like I said Jose had 0% power and control but I did not say this, so please don't make up things. I said, in order to succeed you must have full power and control (100%) of the transfers and targets. The world is not black or white, there are things in between. Not able to buy because the lack of money is one thing, but to have money to buy players and getting Djilobodji, Baba and Hector from Emenalo is another thing.

You're either a sheep that likes attention from the Emenalo cultists (your pic proves that), a Mourinho hater or a person with a very low IQ.

But your point to say the club spent 300M + on players suggests you're in the latest category too, so I suggest you should go back to school to learn the difference between gross spend and net spend, or maybe try to Google it.

But OK, I assume you're too lazy for that so I will explain it baby language for you:

The club spent (net) 52 millions in 5 windows. To compare: Arsenal 106M, City 178M, United 238M, Liverpool 99M.

So what does it say? It means in order to buy a player that manager wants, he has to sell another player for big value. But does it automatically mean that the manager didn't like the player that has to be sold? No, it means you have to choose between 2 valuable assets/options.

Nobody on here, can convince me or even themselves that Jose Mourinho didn't like David Luiz. Luiz played all the big games in midfield instead of Mikel, Oscar and Lampard in the second half of the 2013-14 season. So does it mean Jose didn't value him? No it means he had to sell him in order to buy other players that he wanted. Mata played more than Schurrle, KDB wanted to leave and Lukaku wanted a guarantee to be the first striker. He needed to sell these guys to get main targets like Diego, Cesc, Luis and Matic who won us the league.

But before you're going to say ''yeah but he clearly didn't like Mata, KDB, Luis and Lukaku, that's why the club sold them.'' I'd tell you, even if that was really the case that he didn't like them, and Jose had the 100% power and control of transfers, wouldn't he replace them with other Jose Mourinho type of players to add depth on the bench? Why aren't there any of Khedira, Higuain/Benteke, Sneijder, Callejon, Isco, Raul Garcia, Miranda, Luisao on our bench then?

But what is the reality? We still have the same bad quality depth, Mikel is still our first back up as CDM, Baba an unproven left back as our first back up. Djilobodji as our 4th center back, Ramires as our only box to box player, no top class striker to compete with Diego and Oscar as a starting player. And that's because the club was not 100% buying the players the manager wanted, and because they were reluctant to spend extra money.

Which big club in the world would sell your 2 times player of the year to a direct rival, in the middle of the season? Which big club waits 1 year long to get the ideal striker without getting a decent one now? Which big club has such bad bench options like ours? Which big club would ignore the pleads of the manager after winning the league? Which club would strengthen a direct rival with your club legend without strengthening yourself? Which club would be more busy with breaking records of players on loan rather than looking for quality for the first team? Which big club would get 0 first team additions after winning the league? Which club would get Djilobodji and Hector on deadline day to save your season? Which club would finish the deal of your only left footed left back option when the season is already 3 weeks old? Which big club uses a ''1 out first then 1 in'' transfer strategy? Which big club would be more busy with balancing the books than strengthening the squad?

The above piece summarizes the backing Jose got from the board and the ambition from the club. Yes Jose was not a victim that had 0% power and control but it was clear as day that he did not have 100% power and control. So please let your Cinderella stories rest that he was fully backed by the board in the 2,5 years here.

And no, this not an excuse for Mourinho to be sitting at 1 point above relegation. The club failed as a collective unit this season, including the players and Jose.

go on my sahn !!!! ;-)

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

There's no 'cultists', just Chelsea supporters. It's a little odd to use that as an insult when you're one of those people who feels the need to have an Emenalo avatar to fit in with others. That's not a criticism because you may well not be mindlessly following the crowd in doing that and sincerely want to celebrate the man for what he's done.

You'll also notice that it's not just Emenalo, but the entire board AND Mourinho who are receiving criticism. It would probably be those you might label 'cultists' who are looking at the situation in a more holistic manner than those who would call Mourinho 'the architect to this nightmare...'.

It's widely agreed that when you win the league, you need to improve the squad isn't it? You'll hear the 'two or three world class additions' point thrown around, to stop the club from stalling. That's just to retain the title, without looking at going further in Europe.

The club didn't do that. They didn't match the ambition of the coach and it's quite clear they didn't back him in a number of ways. The Cech situation is the obvious one where they went against his express wishes and sold him to a rival. You can't look at that situation and say they backed him, because they quite clearly didn't.

It's quite absurd for a club to not only not strengthen the squad in a summer transfer window, but to actually STRENGTHEN a direct rival in a position they've been struggling in for almost a decade. They undermined his position within the club and they made his job harder.

As for the thing where you take the focus off the summer transfer window by looking at average spend over five windows, I honestly don't think that will work with many Chelsea supporters. They know that the squad wasn't strengthened and that there were no REAL additions to the squad, only like-for-like changes.

Now none of that means we should've been in the position we were, but they are quite clearly factors and not 'crap' and they will be factors for the next coach, and the next coach, and the next coach unless something ABOVE the coaching position changes. That's not the opinion of a Mourinho cultist, but a fellow Chelsea supporter just like every other poster in this forum is.

I agree with you that the board did FA in the summer when they actually needed to do quite a bit. We could all see how thin the squad was and how bad we were compared to Europe. I was actually okay with PSG knocking us out last year because I thought it would be a sign to the club that things weren't as rosy as the league table suggested.

I think we will be in this state of chopping and changing managers and fitting square players in to round holes until we get some direction as a club, an identity. Then, managers are appointed, and players bought to fit the club's philosophy. Instead of asking a manager to come in a create an identity within a season or couple of years at most. This is also why I'm not that keen on Pep, sure he's good, c'mon, but I don't think he'll have the impact that everyone is expecting.

I have to disagree with you about the Cech situation though. He's a legend of the club and I'm happy for him. He didn't want to up-root his family and the club showed some loyalty towards him. I'm on Roman's side on this one.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

I think we will be in this state of chopping and changing managers and fitting square players in to round holes until we get some direction as a club, an identity. Then, managers are appointed, and players bought to fit the club's philosophy. Instead of asking a manager to come in a create an identity within a season or couple of years at most. This is also why I'm not that keen on Pep, sure he's good, c'mon, but I don't think he'll have the impact that everyone is expecting.

.

I am actually confused about all this "club philosophy" bollix that seems to be buzzing around us and others such as Man Utd.

What is our philosophy then?

Agreed on Guardiola

[Essien19 1,415]

....

Just came back from the gym and then saw this, top class, but i wouldn't expect anything less from you!

That should put things to bed! Complete destruction!

Can we vote for post of the month?

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

I am actually confused about all this "club philosophy" bollix that seems to be buzzing around us and others such as Man Utd.

What is our philosophy then?

Agreed on Guardiola

I think that's the issue.

[Rhino's Skin 972]

I think that's the issue.

ok.....so pick a philosophy for the club and see if your idea of one matches others ;-)

I actually thought the club one was to remain competitive, be winners, and increase the global brand year on year.

And who gives a toss how we do it ;-)

And I have a feeling that could be every top club in the PL philosophy.

All this free flowing attacking football philosophy you hear from the media about Utd is a load of bollix.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

What you're trying to interpret is like I said Jose had 0% power and control but I did not say this, so please don't make up things. I said, in order to succeed you must have full power and control (100%) of the transfers and targets. The world is not black or white, there are things in between. Not able to buy because the lack of money is one thing, but to have money to buy players and getting Djilobodji, Baba and Hector from Emenalo is another thing.

You're either a sheep that likes attention from the Emenalo cultists (your pic proves that), a Mourinho hater or a person with a very low IQ.

But your point to say the club spent 300M + on players suggests you're in the latest category too, so I suggest you should go back to school to learn the difference between gross spend and net spend, or maybe try to Google it.

But OK, I assume you're too lazy for that so I will explain it baby language for you:

The club spent (net) 52 millions in 5 windows. To compare: Arsenal 106M, City 178M, United 238M, Liverpool 99M.

So what does it say? It means in order to buy a player that manager wants, he has to sell another player for big value. But does it automatically mean that the manager didn't like the player that has to be sold? No, it means you have to choose between 2 valuable assets/options.

Nobody on here, can convince me or even themselves that Jose Mourinho didn't like David Luiz. Luiz played all the big games in midfield instead of Mikel, Oscar and Lampard in the second half of the 2013-14 season. So does it mean Jose didn't value him? No it means he had to sell him in order to buy other players that he wanted. Mata played more than Schurrle, KDB wanted to leave and Lukaku wanted a guarantee to be the first striker. He needed to sell these guys to get main targets like Diego, Cesc, Luis and Matic who won us the league.

But before you're going to say ''yeah but he clearly didn't like Mata, KDB, Luis and Lukaku, that's why the club sold them.'' I'd tell you, even if that was really the case that he didn't like them, and Jose had the 100% power and control of transfers, wouldn't he replace them with other Jose Mourinho type of players to add depth on the bench? Why aren't there any of Khedira, Higuain/Benteke, Sneijder, Callejon, Isco, Raul Garcia, Miranda, Luisao on our bench then?

But what is the reality? We still have the same bad quality depth, Mikel is still our first back up as CDM, Baba an unproven left back as our first back up. Djilobodji as our 4th center back, Ramires as our only box to box player, no top class striker to compete with Diego and Oscar as a starting player. And that's because the club was not 100% buying the players the manager wanted, and because they were reluctant to spend extra money.

Which big club in the world would sell your 2 times player of the year to a direct rival, in the middle of the season? Which big club waits 1 year long to get the ideal striker without getting a decent one now? Which big club has such bad bench options like ours? Which big club would ignore the pleads of the manager after winning the league? Which club would strengthen a direct rival with your club legend without strengthening yourself? Which club would be more busy with breaking records of players on loan rather than looking for quality for the first team? Which big club would get 0 first team additions after winning the league? Which club would get Djilobodji and Hector on deadline day to save your season? Which club would finish the deal of your only left footed left back option when the season is already 3 weeks old? Which big club uses a ''1 out first then 1 in'' transfer strategy? Which big club would be more busy with balancing the books than strengthening the squad?

The above piece summarizes the backing Jose got from the board and the ambition from the club. Yes Jose was not a victim that had 0% power and control but it was clear as day that he did not have 100% power and control. So please let your Cinderella stories rest that he was fully backed by the board in the 2,5 years here.

And no, this not an excuse for Mourinho to be sitting at 1 point above relegation. The club failed as a collective unit this season, including the players and Jose.

Yeah and after that you said this "Players can play bad and the manager is the one who gets the sack, no power and control. The manager can cry for reinforcements but the former lady coach Emenalo is the one who gives you the players, no power and control."

To any sane person no power and control means 0 power and control. If you wanted so say not 100 % power and control you should have said so. Your mistake, not mine.

Again typical, focusing only on the last summer window and not on the ones before it. Yes we only bought, Djilobodji, Baba, Begovic and (loan) Falcao in the summer.

In the previous ones we did buy Willian, Matic, Schurrle, Salah, Zouma, Costa, Fabregas, Cuadrado, Luis and Remy though.

I already explained it before. Net spend doesn't tell the whole story. The reason our net spend is so low compared to other top teams is because we had high value players sitting on the bench as they didn't fit into Mourinho's starting eleven. That and because we are trying to be a self- sufficient club. Something which Mourinho knew fully about before he accepted the job here.

Also before you try and twist this. I used the amount of money we spent on bringing in players(13 players, over 300 million) to prove that we did back him not to say we spent the same or more money then the other top teams.

"Mata played more then Schurrle" Yeah but he didn't play more then Hazard, Oscar and Willian though making him 4th in the pecking order and spending a lot of time on the bench.

"De Bruyne wanted to leave" Jee i wonder why ? Maybe it had something to do with him only starting 5 games in 5 months here.

Luiz was a ball playing CB being used sporadically in the big games as a DM because Mourinho didn't trust him as a CB.

We sold players that were sitting on the bench to strenghten our starting eleven.

Mourinho loves Mikel and Ramires. (especially Ramires, "my Ramires is back")

The club wouldn't have had to buy another left back if Mourinho didn't screw over Filipe Luis the season before. He insisted with Ivanovic at right back and Azpi at left back even though it was clear Ivanovic was declining.

Filipe Luis got pissed off and left. Did you really think the club was gonna buy an expensive left back to sit on the bench again ?

"and Oscar as a starting player."

Mourinho was the one who elected Oscar to be his number 10.. Over Mata and De Bruyne. That's not on the club, that's on Mourinho.

"Which big club in the world would sell your 2 times player of the year to a direct rival, in the middle of the season?"

A big club that cocked up by hiring a manager that felt our 2 times player of the year wasn't part of his starting eleven.

"Which big club would ignore the pleads of the manager after winning the league?"

A big club that is trying to be self-sufficient and doesn't have the money to spend 140 million euros on 2 players (Pogba, Stones) just because the manager pleaded with them.

To all your other which big clubs would... questions. : A big club that wants to be self-sufficient financially but has a small stadium so therefore they need to sell to direct rivals when the money's too good to turn down, have a million players out on loan and use a 1 out first then 1 in policy. Didn't i already explain this to you before in another thread ?

"The above piece summarizes the backing Jose got from the board and the ambition from the club"

Nooo the piece you posted summarizes your twisted, positive Mourinho/ negative everyone else, view.

He was backed here but within the limitations of the club's new self-sufficient policy.

Again Mourinho not getting every single player he wanted or not getting them immediately doesn't mean we didn't back him.

"You're either a sheep that likes attention from the Emenalo cultists (your pic proves that), a Mourinho hater or a person with a very low IQ."

Must have hit a nerve ?

Unlike you i can simply see through Mourinho's BS.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

ok.....so pick a philosophy for the club and see if your idea of one matches others ;-)

I actually thought the club one was to remain competitive, be winners, and increase the global brand year on year.

And who gives a toss how we do it ;-)

Pick one? Matches others? I think you've lost me.

I do think you're right, that is the current philosophy of the club, Real Madrid lite. Chop and change managers, buy players with no idea of how they fit in to a system, which doesn't matter anyway because the players last longer than the manager so if they fit for this one, they may or may not fit for the next.

[Ossie the King 634]

I agree with you that the board did FA in the summer when they actually needed to do quite a bit. We could all see how thin the squad was and how bad we were compared to Europe. I was actually okay with PSG knocking us out last year because I thought it would be a sign to the club that things weren't as rosy as the league table suggested.

I think we will be in this state of chopping and changing managers and fitting square players in to round holes until we get some direction as a club, an identity. Then, managers are appointed, and players bought to fit the club's philosophy. Instead of asking a manager to come in a create an identity within a season or couple of years at most. This is also why I'm not that keen on Pep, sure he's good, c'mon, but I don't think he'll have the impact that everyone is expecting.

I have to disagree with you about the Cech situation though. He's a legend of the club and I'm happy for him. He didn't want to up-root his family and the club showed some loyalty towards him. I'm on Roman's side on this one.

Pep has never managed anywhere that didn't already have a philosophy of how it wanted it's teams to play so I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting were he to come in. Barca played similarly before he came and very similarly after he left. We need someone to come in to start the whole process and get it going at youth level. Interestingly, the youth teams have played like Mourinho teams for about as long as I've watched them.

I understand the 'loyalty' argument with Cech, but the club (specifically Roman) undermined Jose's authority and made his job harder. I think the club's first loyalty should be to it's coach, not it's back-up keeper. You might say that Cech isn't just any keeper, he's a legend and he earned it. Well my response would be that Jose is a legend too, and he's definitely earned it.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

Pep has never managed anywhere that didn't already have a philosophy of how it wanted it's teams to play so I'm not entirely sure what people are expecting were he to come in. Barca played similarly before he came and very similarly after he left. We need someone to come in to start the whole process and get it going at youth level. Interestingly, the youth teams have played like Mourinho teams for about as long as I've watched them.

I understand the 'loyalty' argument with Cech, but the club (specifically Roman) undermined Jose's authority and made his job harder. I think the club's first loyalty should be to it's coach, not it's back-up keeper. You might say that Cech isn't just any keeper, he's a legend and he earned it. Well my response would be that Jose is a legend too, and he's definitely earned it.

Fair enough point.

[Gappy 130]

I don't see any chance that Pep will end up here.

From options that he has now, Man City,Man Utd and Chelsea

Why will he'll choose us?

[Term-X 7,891]

Head wants Simeone, heart wants Guardiola.