Branislav Ivanovic

[Corner 456]

To be fair, he's never been one for being comfortable on the ball. Think last night exposed that. He's a brilliant defender, but not a footballer on the ball. Goal keeper short passes have always been risky, especially with a player like Iva.

Ah well, he did try to make amends.

I agree.

We as fans may love good old-fashioned centre-backs like JT and Ivanovic, but the truth is that Chelsea have moved on. We're becoming more and more possession based which is exposing the weaknesses of playes like Ramires, Ivanovic and even Cole at times. Soon enough there simply will be no place in our team for Ramires and Ivanovic.

We may not like that, but it's what I think will most likely happen.

[Kojo 4,676]

The thing is, if it was the first mistake and that was it i would of been okay with it. Given the respect he deserves by this club, but he was just so fucking carless for the 2nd one. Like he didn't give a shit at all, i mean come the fuck on, he just had a clash he should know there are two players behind him and then he does the worst and slowest possible back pass in the world, and to ROSS TURNBULL of all people.

And he has just cost us a trophy, so this is something i just wont forget.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

so he made a few mistakes.The fact that our striker couldn't get us back in the game is actually far more depressing than Ivanovic's performance.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I agree.

We as fans may love good old-fashioned centre-backs like JT and Ivanovic, but the truth is that Chelsea have moved on. We're becoming more and more possession based which is exposing the weaknesses of playes like Ramires, Ivanovic and even Cole at times. Soon enough there simply will be no place in our team for Ramires and Ivanovic.

We may not like that, but it's what I think will most likely happen.

A bit off topic, but JT is one of the best CBs on the ball in the world. He is constantly in the top 5 out filed players in terms of passing percentage in all of Europe.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Wow, talk about an overreaction. Glad none of you manage the club.

[Corner 456]

A bit off topic, but JT is one of the best CBs on the ball in the world. He is constantly in the top 5 out filed players in terms of passing percentage in all of Europe.

I'm not suggesting JT is bad on the ball, just that he's on old-fashioned centre-back who will happy stand around the box all day long and throw his body/face/legs in front of every shot coming in and heading away anything that gets near the box.

Why I think he won't have a place in the squad after another year or two is because of his injury problems at the moment and his lack of pace. With possession football comes a high line and every defender needs to be quick. I could be wrong about Terry fitting into this system though because his positioning and anticipation is so good that it almost makes up for his lack of pace.

[Henrique 9,133]

That is massively unfair on the guy.

I have to disagree with you at this point. As BLionheart pointed, Ivanovic made a lot of silly mistakes this season, but somehow DM said days ago he was he best RB in PL. About Luiz, sometimes it is really pathetic the reactions: he lost a ball and there are 4 or 5 ´players behind him, and he still gets the blame. Ivanovic got a stupid red against United, and nobody said one single word.

Now he made two silly mistakes, but people just go to Torres topic to say what everybody already knows (it took 2 years to people realize that Torres is a garbage, but he played like that since the very first moment he joined), and the spaniard got all the blame. For me its clear the difference: Ivanovic is from Europe, while Luiz is from Brazil. I think, every word you used to describe Ivanovic "dependable, reliable and a good servant to the club" is a indication of that. So Luiz is not a good servant?

I remember sometime ago some people in this forum saying they did not want brazilian players, because brazilian players just want money and some years for glory, and then they get lazy and just dont care, and they were using Ronaldinho and Adriano as examples. FYI Adriano has serious problems with depression, and Ronaldinho also had problems with depression. So, it was more health problems than lazyness. Even if that was the case, there are players like Cafú, Juan, Raí, Aldair, and many others...players that were good servants and professionals.

The fans are hypercritical, when the subject are non-european players. You might say: "Drogba was voted the best player ever". Right, after he gave Chelsea a UCL its pretty easy to love the guy, Didier was far from being the most loved player at SB, he was even booed by his own fans! The word was: he is a cheater, and its not good to have a cheater as a Chelsea player.

Robinho was far from being a huge sucess at City, but he still managed to score 14 goals in one single season, when City was no more than a poor mid-table team, but when people talk about Robinho in this forum, they make him look like a completely flop. Now we even have people saying that buying Falcão (94 goals in last 3 seaons) is a stupid move, because Lewandowski (53 goals in last 3 seasons) is a much better option.

Luiz is a defender, and I dont know why, but people in Europe believe brazilans just cant defend, but one of the best defender in the world is from Brazil (Thiago Silva), and Brazil produced some of the best defenders in last decade, like Lúcio, Cafú, Roberto Carlos, Edmilson, Maicon. Brazilians squads that won 1994 and 2002 WC were really good in the defence. People were saying days ago, that Corinthians had a defence that was surprisingly good for a brazilian team, but the truth is that the best brazilians teams always have a good defence. I dont remember a good brazilian team that used to have a good attack and a shit defence.

All these factors go against Luiz, and no, I'm no talking about racism, its just an evident bias.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I have to disagree with you at this point. As BLionheart pointed, Ivanovic made a lot of silly mistakes this season, but somehow DM said days ago he was he best RB in PL. About Luiz, sometimes it is really pathetic the reactions: he lost a ball and there are 4 or 5 ´players behind him, and he still gets the blame. Ivanovic got a stupid red against United, and nobody said one single word.

Now he made two silly mistakes, but people just go to Torres topic to say what everybody already knows (it took 2 years to people realize that Torres is a garbage, but he played like that since the very first moment he joined), and the spaniard got all the blame. For me its clear the difference: Ivanovic is from Europe, while Luiz is from Brazil. I think, every word you used to describe Ivanovic "dependable, reliable and a good servant to the club" is a indication of that. So Luiz is not a good servant?

I remember sometime ago some people in this forum saying they did not want brazilian players, because brazilian players just want money and some years for glory, and then they get lazy and just dont care, and they were using Ronaldinho and Adriano as examples. FYI Adriano has serious problems with depression, and Ronaldinho also had problems with depression. So, it was more health problems than lazyness. Even if that was the case, there are players like Cafú, Juan, Raí, Aldair, and many others...players that were good servants and professionals.

The fans are hypercritical, when the subject are non-european players. You might say: "Drogba was voted the best player ever". Right, after he gave Chelsea a UCL its pretty easy to love the guy, Didier was far from being the most loved player at SB, he was even booed by his own fans! The word was: he is a cheater, and its not good to have a cheater as a Chelsea player.

Robinho was far from being a huge sucess at City, but he still managed to score 14 goals in one single season, when City was no more than a poor mid-table team, but when people talk about Robinho in this forum, they make him look like a completely flop. Now we even have people saying that buying Falcão (94 goals in last 3 seaons) is a stupid move, because Lewandowski (53 goals in last 3 seasons) is a much better option.

Luiz is a defender, and I dont know why, but people in Europe believe brazilans just cant defend, but one of the best defender in the world is from Brazil (Thiago Silva), and Brazil produced some of the best defenders in last decade, like Lúcio, Cafú, Roberto Carlos, Edmilson, Maicon. Brazilians squads that won 1994 and 2002 WC were really good in the defence. People were saying days ago, that Corinthians had a defence that was surprisingly good for a brazilian team, but the truth is that the best brazilians teams always have a good defence. I dont remember a good brazilian team that used to have a good attack and a shit defence.

All these factors go against Luiz, and no, I'm no talking about racism, its just an evident bias.

This all sounds like some weird 'Brazilian victimisation' which I don't think there is. David Luiz could be from any country in the world and I'd still expect him to make the odd brain-fart. Ivanovic doesn't. He's been one of our most dependable players for years and he's one of the players who every fan in the ground respects.

He puts everything into his performances and has been dependable for over 150 games. He's proper Chelsea in my opinion and the fans giving him shit need to have a real look in the mirror.

[HRiver 1,512]

@Henrique,

The fact that Luiz is Brazilian doesn't make me criticize him or dislike him. I don't like him because his recklessness has cost the team more times than I can count, and it seems that this guy will just never learn. I'm always nervous when I see him in defence especially in big games, because the chances are high that he'll screw up.

With Ivanovic it is less likely to happen, because Ivanovic is more intelligent and is a better defender even if he's not as skillful as Luiz. Luiz is imo our worst defender, Ivanovic on the other hand might be our second best.

[robsblubot 3,504]

This all sounds like some weird 'Brazilian victimisation' which I don't think there is. David Luiz could be from any country in the world and I'd still expect him to make the odd brain-fart. Ivanovic doesn't. He's been one of our most dependable players for years and he's one of the players who every fan in the ground respects.

He puts everything into his performances and has been dependable for over 150 games. He's proper Chelsea in my opinion and the fans giving him shit need to have a real look in the mirror.

How is having an odd brain fart worse than being supar, or not as good, or not as confortable on the ball?

My answer to the above question would be that the difference is the "when" mistakes happen: with the odd brain fart, it will be random but likely during easy games, more about cockiness, and bad judgement. On the other hand, lack of quality will hurt you when it matters most, in really tough matches when your opponent puts your defenders in difficult situations.

IMO, it's all about giving you an edge. As dependable Ivanovic is, I don't think he gives Chelsea an edge, especially when playing CB.

It's really interesting that the English call a player "proper", or "dependable." These are good atributes in a player, but not essential. The player MUST be good enough on the ball, because otherwise another player who's better than him will have the edge. It's still a competition; individual disputes take place all the time during a match.

I'm not worried about Luiz. He's an excellent player who can play for any top team in the world. He's also young for a defender and will become more composed in time--it is far more difficult to improve ball skills than any mental aspect of the game for example. I personally think he'd be perfect for Barcelona, but as a Chelsea supporter and one who likes to play the CL, I certainly don't want to lose Luiz esp to Barcelona. I cannot imagine winning much at that level with Iva and Cahill in the defense, even with both being dependable proper players.

Let me emphasize my point by saying that employing dependable players used to be good enough before Roman bought the club. I was already a chelsea supporter back then. However, right now, when Chelsea aim to fly higher, and have, dependable just isn't enough.

[zolayes 14,489]

if Mikel had made one of those mistakes .....BUT if he had made BOTH ,,,,the forum would still be in melt down ....imo Luiz gets much more criticism than he deserves

[communicate 2,703]

I'm not suggesting JT is bad on the ball, just that he's on old-fashioned centre-back who will happy stand around the box all day long and throw his body/face/legs in front of every shot coming in and heading away anything that gets near the box.

Why I think he won't have a place in the squad after another year or two is because of his injury problems at the moment and his lack of pace. With possession football comes a high line and every defender needs to be quick. I could be wrong about Terry fitting into this system though because his positioning and anticipation is so good that it almost makes up for his lack of pace.

Terry is probably the best CB in the world in term of defending penalty box but if you ask him to play high line he has never been good. It was really obvious last year during AVB.

[Jase 43,479]

5 years ago today, we bought Ivanovic and he looked somewhat different then...

[NiclasCFC 2,582]

Thanks Avram Grant for bringing this Legend to the Club!

[termninja 5,290]

[Henrique 9,133]

Is his brick diet affecting his game?

[Stingray 9,441]

Is his brick diet affecting his game?

Yeah, he sure was lucky Cech was close on that one ball back. Could have been a give away goal ...

Also, his passing in general (balls slighty behond the target) and ball control was off sometimes(the ball sometimes just spinned over his foot when he controlled it).

I hope he gets his confidence back soon, he seems affected by his errors last game.

[Henrique 9,133]

This all sounds like some weird 'Brazilian victimisation' which I don't think there is. David Luiz could be from any country in the world and I'd still expect him to make the odd brain-fart. Ivanovic doesn't. He's been one of our most dependable players for years and he's one of the players who every fan in the ground respects.

He puts everything into his performances and has been dependable for over 150 games. He's proper Chelsea in my opinion and the fans giving him shit need to have a real look in the mirror.

Dude, wake up. Ivanovic is just having his worst season as a Chelsea player. If you want to respect him because he is from Serbia and eats bricks for breakfest, feel free. The truth is if there is a defender that can make the odd brain-fart decision this season, this defender is Ivanovic.