Graham Potter Thread

[Special Juan 27,622]

Broja won't be anywhere worse than Havertz, but the golden German gets free pass after free pass.

[Trueblue9877 6]

We shouldn't have sacked Thomas Tuchel, he was our Phil Jackson and we let him go smh.

[Blues11 213]

  On 07/11/2022 at 23:23, Trueblue9877 said:

We shouldn't have sacked Thomas Tuchel, he was our Phil Jackson and we let him go smh.

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We were bad under Tuchel too. It's like everyone forgot but it wasn't just this season, we were really poor the second half of last season also.

The roster needs to be revamped starting with the midfield. Let's not forget Tuchel was the one who badly wanted Cucurella and Fofana coming off a major injury. 

Club needs an elite sporting director to actually address our most glaring needs instead of overpaying for wingbacks and older players

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 08/11/2022 at 00:07, Blues11 said:

We were bad under Tuchel too. It's like everyone forgot but it wasn't just this season, we were really poor the second half of last season also.

The roster needs to be revamped starting with the midfield. Let's not forget Tuchel was the one who badly wanted Cucurella and Fofana coming off a major injury. 

Club needs an elite sporting director to actually address our most glaring needs instead of overpaying for wingbacks and older players

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We were bad under Tuchel for a while yes but you’d think he had some credit in the bank no? To turn it around? 6 cup finals, 3 trophies in 2 years more or less. And even more so considering he was given £250m worth of new players.

I mean I wish people would just stop saying ‘people seem to forget we were bad under Tuchel’ to try and make Graham Potter look a better choice. I mean this is based on what? Getting promoted in Sweden 3 times? Achieving a 9th place finish with Brighton and then another good 7 or 8 weeks the following season? I mean his credentials are underwhelming compared to everyone we have had in the Roman era bar Lampard. I mean we were bad under Conte after winning the premier league and we were bad under Jose after winning the premier league - does that necessarily mean Conte and Jose are bad managers? Or that Tuchel is because of 10 month period where people also deliberately tend to FORGET in it that he had to deal with the:

1) Lukaku situation from that interview 

2) the will it happen, wont it happen sale circus 

3) Roman questions and everything surrounding the links to Putin

4)the other Ukraine-Russia questions because of the above

I mean cmon. Use your head. Its easy to say we were bad but it would be a bad time for any manager in the world to be in charge of us. Yet alone someone who set the bar so high in his first 6 months. I mean there was all sorts going on.

I am 90% sure we would still be making top 4 with Tuchel in charge this season, even based on the last 10 months or so of performances here as opposed to now with Graham Potter. That is my honest opinion.

I mean GP can maybe get things moving in the other way again, he’s shown he’s a half decent manager with Brighton but doing a half decent job here isn’t necessarily going to cut it - particularly if we don't make top 4 this season. Even more so considering he looks a bit out of his depth. 

I think by the time we go to play Dortmund, if we aren’t in the running for top 4 or 5, it will have been a catastrophic mistake. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by OneMoSalah

[Blue Armour 4,369]

  On 10/11/2022 at 07:42, OneMoSalah said:

We were bad under Tuchel for a while yes but you’d think he had some credit in the bank no? To turn it around? 6 cup finals, 3 trophies in 2 years more or less. And even more so considering he was given £250m worth of new players.

I mean I wish people would just stop saying ‘people seem to forget we were bad under Tuchel’ to try and make Graham Potter look a better choice. I mean this is based on what? Getting promoted in Sweden 3 times? Achieving a 9th place finish with Brighton and then another good 7 or 8 weeks the following season? I mean his credentials are underwhelming compared to everyone we have had in the Roman era bar Lampard. I mean we were bad under Conte after winning the premier league and we were bad under Jose after winning the premier league - does that necessarily mean Conte and Jose are bad managers? Or that Tuchel is because of 10 month period where people also deliberately tend to FORGET in it that he had to deal with the:

1) Lukaku situation from that interview 

2) the will it happen, wont it happen sale circus 

3) Roman questions and everything surrounding the links to Putin

4)the other Ukraine-Russia questions because of the above

I mean cmon. Use your head. Its easy to say we were bad but it would be a bad time for any manager in the world to be in charge of us. Yet alone someone who set the bar so high in his first 6 months. I mean there was all sorts going on.

I am 90% sure we would still be making top 4 with Tuchel in charge this season, even based on the last 10 months or so of performances here as opposed to now with Graham Potter. That is my honest opinion.

I mean GP can maybe get things moving in the other way again, he’s shown he’s a half decent manager with Brighton but doing a half decent job here isn’t necessarily going to cut it - particularly if we don't make top 4 this season. Even more so considering he looks a bit out of his depth. 

I think by the time we go to play Dortmund, if we aren’t in the running for top 4 or 5, it will have been a catastrophic mistake. 

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What happened with Tuchel has nothing to do with his performance. 

It was more of a freak accident where he simply just didn't get along with the new regime (something he has also admitted recently, when he said that he wasn't in the right frame of mind at the time) and he was given the boot consequently.

If he got along better with the owners, he would still be here despite the lackluster start to the season.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

 I hoped that the new owners would get behind our managers, but they went down the toilet with they got rid of TT. I fully support GP because he is a young up and coming English a manger. We will lose at Newcastle as we pretty much always do and then hopefully our key injured players can get back after World Cup as they are not going - then the club can back GP and results get better

[Reddish-Blue 2,428]

  On 10/11/2022 at 07:42, OneMoSalah said:

We were bad under Tuchel for a while yes but you’d think he had some credit in the bank no? To turn it around? 6 cup finals, 3 trophies in 2 years more or less. And even more so considering he was given £250m worth of new players.

I mean I wish people would just stop saying ‘people seem to forget we were bad under Tuchel’ to try and make Graham Potter look a better choice. I mean this is based on what? Getting promoted in Sweden 3 times? Achieving a 9th place finish with Brighton and then another good 7 or 8 weeks the following season? I mean his credentials are underwhelming compared to everyone we have had in the Roman era bar Lampard. I mean we were bad under Conte after winning the premier league and we were bad under Jose after winning the premier league - does that necessarily mean Conte and Jose are bad managers? Or that Tuchel is because of 10 month period where people also deliberately tend to FORGET in it that he had to deal with the:

1) Lukaku situation from that interview 

2) the will it happen, wont it happen sale circus 

3) Roman questions and everything surrounding the links to Putin

4)the other Ukraine-Russia questions because of the above

I mean cmon. Use your head. Its easy to say we were bad but it would be a bad time for any manager in the world to be in charge of us. Yet alone someone who set the bar so high in his first 6 months. I mean there was all sorts going on.

I am 90% sure we would still be making top 4 with Tuchel in charge this season, even based on the last 10 months or so of performances here as opposed to now with Graham Potter. That is my honest opinion.

I mean GP can maybe get things moving in the other way again, he’s shown he’s a half decent manager with Brighton but doing a half decent job here isn’t necessarily going to cut it - particularly if we don't make top 4 this season. Even more so considering he looks a bit out of his depth. 

I think by the time we go to play Dortmund, if we aren’t in the running for top 4 or 5, it will have been a catastrophic mistake. 

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That's the problem right there.   The two losses to Leeds & Southampton were major red flags as the players threw in the towel way too early in both games and looked like they had never played with their each other. 

As for all the other excuses, let's not forget that Tuchel agreed to the Lukaku transfer (like I highly doubt Marina and the club would sanction a 90+ million transfer of a player without getting the manager's approval).   

Tuchel didn't get along with the board, isn't the first time and won't be the last (Dortmund, PSG & now Chelsea).    There were stories and quotes from other managers saying that Tuchel was a bit of a control freak who wanted everything his way....and that sort of makes sense now as to why he was told to go from both PSG & Chelsea as you still have to listen to your owners.   

It's like someone getting a new manager at work, you don't immediately go into their office and say that they have bad ideas.  You try to get to know them, work with them and then see if it's worth sticking around or moving elsewhere. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,598]

Potter is going to be here for the rebuilding of the squad.

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,322]

Good. 

Going to get a lot worse before it gets better, but there is light. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,598]

It seems there has already been discussion about not making the top four. It is probably best that everyone knows that it is either an expectation, or it is not due to rebuilding.

 

[Henrique 9,133]

Potter won't get sacked no matter the results. Todd probably wants to prove the is making the right decisions, so Potter is supposed to be part of a "long term project". I was a little optimistic when he was signed, but so far he is easily the worst manager of past 20 years, and that's a big achievement when we had Scolari, AVB and Lampard.

I get the feeling were are going Manchester United and Arsenal way.  I mean, they were willing to let a mediocre manager like Solskjaer stay there for 3 years...

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 14/11/2022 at 13:49, ZAPHOD2319 said:

Potter is going to be here for the rebuilding of the squad.

 

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Apparently so… I mean I doubt it. But here we are. 

Potter will one day become a good manager but he will never be an elite manager like the Contes, Joses, Peps, Klopps, Carlos, Tuchels, Nagelsmanns etc. And ultimately in the long run, that will only get us so far. So let’s see how things go. I am a bit concerned about the next 12-18 months if I am honest.

I mean he doesn’t even have the pedigree that ten Hag and even Brendan Rodgers to a lesser extent have and I doubt we will give him the 2.5 seasons of mediocrity like Artetas gotten (which is by the skin of his teeth - as fans were eager to chuck him multiple times before this season) at Arsenal. I mean the ruthless firing and hiring culture from the last regime, even now with a new owner in place, will always lurk in the background. Always. Because it was successful also - yielding a lot of results. 

It certainly remains to be seen if Boehly will stick with his plan. Plus with continued investment that will be at City and potentially new investment coming in at Liverpool and Man United at some point in say the next 12 or 18 months or so, it remains to be seen IF enough progress will be made with GP to satisfy it. I mean I am a bit worried that if both United and Liverpool get new owners, new investment, that it could change the game for us again if we waste another 12-18 months fannying about. We are in a position now this season where we are looking at the likes of Man United and Spurs as opposed to us trying to close the gap to the top two teams of last season. Plus Arsenal leapfrogging out of nowhere too surprisingly.

Its difficult to see what the goal for this season is atm, is it top 4? is it top 6? Dare I say it…. is it top 8? 

[Jype 6,398]

  On 24/11/2022 at 04:48, OneMoSalah said:

Potter will one day become a good manager but he will never be an elite manager like the Contes, Joses, Peps, Klopps, Carlos, Tuchels, Nagelsmanns etc. And ultimately in the long run, that will only get us so far. So let’s see how things go. I am a bit concerned about the next 12-18 months if I am honest.

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Is Nagelsmann an elite manager though?

He got Hoffenheim to play some excellent stuff and even made the CL a couple of times but we also have to remember the Bundesliga is far less competitive than EPL. For example in the 2017/18 season Hoffenheim's highest ever league finish of 3rd place was achieved with 55 points in 34 games. A similar point return in the PL over a 38 game season would amount to around 61 points, which would basically get you anywhere between 6th-8th place in any given season. A good achievement for a young coach for sure, but elite? I'm not sure.

After his time at Hoffenheim he got a slight step up following his move to RB Leipzig but they didn't really improve much under him. The season prior to Nagelsmann's arrival they had got 66 points  in the Bundesliga and in the two seasons with Nagelsmann they got 66 and 65 so basically stayed at the exact same level. They did reach the semis in that weird COVID-time UCL one-off knockout tourney though, so there's that.

He then made the big step to manage Bayern where winning the title is very much a dead certainty and I don't think he can be credited too much for that when any half-decent coach would achieve the same with the squad they have. Their points total last season was the lowest Bayern have got in the last ten years and this year he's been under some criticism and there have even been calls for him to be sacked so it's not all sunshines and rainbows there when making the leap to one of the biggest clubs out there. I don't think you'll find many Bayern fans who would call Nagelsmann an elite level manager but he's still very young and can improve a lot.

Had Potter stayed at Brighton I think it's very likely they would have reached the UEL spots in the Premiear League this season. In an ideal situation we'd probably have waited a bit to see how he develops as a manager but the dynamics in the EPL are very different to the Bundesliga. It's not like we could have seen Potter first take charge of an already established European level side (like Nagelsmann did at Leipzig) before snapping him up to the big time so the opportunity to take a gamble on him was now or never. Whether he's ready for that is another question entirely but let's see how it goes.

[didi007 69]

  On 14/11/2022 at 13:52, ZAPHOD2319 said:

It seems there has already been discussion about not making the top four. It is probably best that everyone knows that it is either an expectation, or it is not due to rebuilding.

 

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What if we end up in the relegation zone? Will he still be kept? 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,598]

  On 24/11/2022 at 15:49, didi007 said:

What if we end up in the relegation zone? Will he still be kept? 

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No chance he would survive that. We also have had 6 of the starting 11 injured. I think we will start climbing after Boxing Day. 

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 24/11/2022 at 14:55, Jype said:

Is Nagelsmann an elite manager though?

He got Hoffenheim to play some excellent stuff and even made the CL a couple of times but we also have to remember the Bundesliga is far less competitive than EPL. For example in the 2017/18 season Hoffenheim's highest ever league finish of 3rd place was achieved with 55 points in 34 games. A similar point return in the PL over a 38 game season would amount to around 61 points, which would basically get you anywhere between 6th-8th place in any given season. A good achievement for a young coach for sure, but elite? I'm not sure.

After his time at Hoffenheim he got a slight step up following his move to RB Leipzig but they didn't really improve much under him. The season prior to Nagelsmann's arrival they had got 66 points  in the Bundesliga and in the two seasons with Nagelsmann they got 66 and 65 so basically stayed at the exact same level. They did reach the semis in that weird COVID-time UCL one-off knockout tourney though, so there's that.

He then made the big step to manage Bayern where winning the title is very much a dead certainty and I don't think he can be credited too much for that when any half-decent coach would achieve the same with the squad they have. Their points total last season was the lowest Bayern have got in the last ten years and this year he's been under some criticism and there have even been calls for him to be sacked so it's not all sunshines and rainbows there when making the leap to one of the biggest clubs out there. I don't think you'll find many Bayern fans who would call Nagelsmann an elite level manager but he's still very young and can improve a lot.

Had Potter stayed at Brighton I think it's very likely they would have reached the UEL spots in the Premiear League this season. In an ideal situation we'd probably have waited a bit to see how he develops as a manager but the dynamics in the EPL are very different to the Bundesliga. It's not like we could have seen Potter first take charge of an already established European level side (like Nagelsmann did at Leipzig) before snapping him up to the big time so the opportunity to take a gamble on him was now or never. Whether he's ready for that is another question entirely but let's see how it goes.

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I’m pretty certain Nagelsmann would be categorised as an elite manager despite Bayern maybe not being as good as people expect them to be at present. I still think his work in Germany has been pretty good all things considered ie the clubs he was at before, his age and lack of/amount of coaching experience and how his careers progressed so far. 

Personally I think Bayern are in a funny moment. I mean they’ve let 2 serial winners, who were experienced and world class talents in Thiago and Lewandowski leave in recent windows without replacing them with ready made/like for like quality so there was always going to be the inevitability that they’d maybe not be the same team they were without them/performances may drop because they were key players (although Mane is world class but signing him as an out and out CF to replace Lewa is a bit mad). Particularly Lewandowski who I think makes the difference in most sides despite his age. As well the fact they’ve sort of overhauled their squad over the past 4 or 5 seasons with younger players coming in and older ones leaving ie Hummels, Boateng, Javi Martinez, Douglas Costa, Robben, Ribery. 

Or at least thats how I see it re Nagelsmann and Bayern. I mean Hansi Flick did an exceptional job there without really being regarded as an exceptional manager but Kovac, who is a decent enough manager - not elite though - struggled there and Ancelotti has also struggled there. I would say Nagelsmann is doing better than those 2.

Probably the same scenario that Juventus had a few seasons ago, a lot of aging players needing changed out, fresh blood needed, perhaps a new style/adaption of their style needed - but they didn’t do it quickly enough and now they are in the scenario which they are in where if they’d maybe done it sooner it would of been smoother. I don’t think Bayern are in a similar scenario because they didn’t leave it last minute they’ve managed to refresh an older group pretty well over 5 to 6 years.

 

[NikkiCFC 8,122]

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

[Fernando 6,534]

  On 26/11/2022 at 23:12, NikkiCFC said:

I want Luis Enrique for years. Quality manager and plays offensive and attractive football which is very rare in Chelsea. One more month of contract with Spain. When TT was still here I said wait for him but no, we have long term plans with Potter!😭

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No thank you!