Chelsea Transfers

[NikkiCFC 8,516]

4 hours ago, TheHulk said:

Matt and his delusions are back.

It's not delusions It's PR. I mean, he knows what Mount is going to tell Poch next week lol 

And it's not the first time he writes bs

[Mário César 1,478]

I am reading some opinions that selling so many players at once is a mistake and will have consequences, just as you had buying too many players at once.

What is your opinion?

The truth is that many of them are not needed, but still....

[Vegetable 830]

10 minutes ago, Mário César said:

The truth is that many of them are not needed, but still....

One thing is this (and every other really) board dynamics of people wanting all players out because they are annoyed with them, while objectively they are not Saul-level futile, but the true problem is what someone pointed out really well in Noni's thread - Does eg Mudryk and Madueke provide at least Pulisic's level of output? Meeeeh. Still everyone wants Puli out. We have no immediate replacements, not to mention upgrades to a lot of unwanted players. We are betting on Noni becoming better than Pulisic one day, but it creates a huge hole now. Depending on when and IF new players will step up, we may be seeing another relegation battle shitshow next season. Wings are especially concerning to me, but up front it's the same - Lukaku is dreadful, but is Broja getting out and punishing entire PL? Doubt it. Are people we are being linked with as Kante/Kova/Mount replacements are really right here and right now equal or better players? Plus, personally I don't trust our board a smallest bit in terms of choosing and actually landing the targets. People claiming Kante/Havertz/Mount/Kova or even KK to some extent are "shit" are letting their annoyance overshadow the reality imo.

[bluesman2610 1,430]

 

19 minutes ago, Mário César said:

I am reading some opinions that selling so many players at once is a mistake and will have consequences, just as you had buying too many players at once.

What is your opinion?

The truth is that many of them are not needed, but still....

If RLC could have stayed healthy I would have kept him. Hopefully Carney is in Poch plans.

[NikkiCFC 8,516]

4 minutes ago, bluesman2610 said:

 

If RLC could have stayed healthy I would have kept him. Hopefully Carney is in Poch plans.

In RLC role we have great prospects like Santos and Casadei. RLC taking their place would be weird. 

[Pizy 19,258]

RLC was never going to become anything worth keeping at a club of our ambition. Didn’t score, didn’t assist, not mentally switched on enough to make it. And he’s always injured over the years.

At his absolute best he was nice but even then he was essentially Kova with a bit more power. Wasn’t getting or creating goals. Just good at carrying r ball. That’s not good enough.

[robsblubot 3,595]

37 minutes ago, Mário César said:

I am reading some opinions that selling so many players at once is a mistake and will have consequences, just as you had buying too many players at once.

What is your opinion?

The truth is that many of them are not needed, but still....

It essentially guarantees that next season won't be successful. All we are hoping for right now is for something better than last season, for some improvement, but dismantling the squad while losing all key players at once, has really never worked. The movement towards younger players all at once has also never worked. Nothing we are doing has ever worked... at least not short-term. If you have trust in the leadership, that the actions are all part of a grand plan, then more power to you.

You keep saying this or that player isn't good enough. The facts are that they are not leaving Chelsea for smaller teams in smaller leagues. They will competing at the same level next season. In better and more established teams too! Good enough at this level is VERY relative. It's all competition and looking for the smallest competitive advantages. How fleshy a player is, or how you like his turns and "vision" means nothing if the player does not provide a competitive advantage. I've seen fantastic skilled players who never done anything meaningful in football, at least not at this level.

[guddy69 174]

50 minutes ago, Pizy said:

RLC was never going to become anything worth keeping at a club of our ambition. Didn’t score, didn’t assist, not mentally switched on enough to make it. And he’s always injured over the years.

At his absolute best he was nice but even then he was essentially Kova with a bit more power. Wasn’t getting or creating goals. Just good at carrying r ball. That’s not good enough.

he was with us for sooooo long.. in all that time he made 2 good passes and one assist = rubbish 🙂

[King Kante 1,643]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

It essentially guarantees that next season won't be successful. All we are hoping for right now is for something better than last season, for some improvement, but dismantling the squad while losing all key players at once, has really never worked. The movement towards younger players all at once has also never worked. Nothing we are doing has ever worked... at least not short-term. If you have trust in the leadership, that the actions are all part of a grand plan, then more power to you.

You keep saying this or that player isn't good enough. The facts are that they are not leaving Chelsea for smaller teams in smaller leagues. They will competing at the same level next season. In better and more established teams too! Good enough at this level is VERY relative. It's all competition and looking for the smallest competitive advantages. How fleshy a player is, or how you like his turns and "vision" means nothing if the player does not provide a competitive advantage. I've seen fantastic skilled players who never done anything meaningful in football, at least not at this level.

I agree we are playing with fire this off-season. People talk about Kai and Mount like they will never be as good as KdB or Salah. The thing is, KdB wasn't much older when we sold him than Kai/Mount are now. For me footballers always really show what they're going to be in the 22-26 bracket, unless they're super elite like Mbappe, Rooney, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Haaland etc, where they started doing it from a very young age, simply because they were elite talents. Personally, for me celebrating the selling Kai and Mount is both highly dangerous and ill thoughtout as these players aren't at their peak yet. I also remember a lot of people for instance celebrating the £18m we pulled in for KdB at the time due to him not being a team player and a prima Donna.

Additionally, people celebrate players like Costa and Drogba but forget that they were both 26+ when they rocked up here. Both of them had to play a lot of football elsewhere in the early 20's for 'lower' teams before they made it. 

This said, I do equally understand the economics of football. Both Kai and Mount have few years on there contracts and, even waiting a year, could be disastrous for their value. So, I can see why the club may want to sell, even if I don't understand why people who are just fans/supporters are happy with it - if you consider the above. 

This said. I am worried about next season. For sure, getting rid of the likes of Ziyech, KK and Mendy for reasonable fees won't hurt that much because there age means we know what they are and that they're only likely to decline from here on in. However, the purchases raise massive concerns with me. Let's look at these in the cold light of day: 

Jackson - 6 months ago was going to Bournemouth and people didn't have a clue who he was. Hits a purple patch towards the end of a La Liga season and people now think he walks into the PL as a proven goalscorer or at least can 'do a job'. For me this is a very highly speculative transfer. 

Caicedo - stats show he is a very good ball winner. However, as soon as Potter left, DZ decided to play him in multiple positions to cover holes. For sure, people can argue that he is so good he can play any position, but another argument is that he cannot nail down his favoured position. I mean, seriously, whenever have you seen a player being switched around like that in there early 20's to fill holes in a 6th placed team? The answer is normally a McTominary/Flecther/Cleverly ( SAF/Man U tbf have always had a great eye for finding roles for grafters.)

For me, as DZ was/is the better tactian, when compared to Potter, this leaves massive question marks for me as whilst some people see Kante, I can also see Ramires. His age is the only reason why I cannot place him yet as he still needs a lot more football in his legs. 

As for the overall balance of the squad, it looks like we're aiming for a U23 side hoping that they'll grow together. This for me is a crap shoot in that if it comes off, it is jackpot. However, we also run the real risk we leave ourselves a lot poorer, even though we convinced ourselves before we threw the dice that things couldn't get worse. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by King Kante

[YorkshireBlue 3,341]

Man city have bid 90m for rice! 

[Mário César 1,478]

1 hour ago, Vegetable said:

One thing is this (and every other really) board dynamics of people wanting all players out because they are annoyed with them, while objectively they are not Saul-level futile, but the true problem is what someone pointed out really well in Noni's thread - Does eg Mudryk and Madueke provide at least Pulisic's level of output? Meeeeh. Still everyone wants Puli out. We have no immediate replacements, not to mention upgrades to a lot of unwanted players. We are betting on Noni becoming better than Pulisic one day, but it creates a huge hole now. Depending on when and IF new players will step up, we may be seeing another relegation battle shitshow next season. Wings are especially concerning to me, but up front it's the same - Lukaku is dreadful, but is Broja getting out and punishing entire PL? Doubt it. Are people we are being linked with as Kante/Kova/Mount replacements are really right here and right now equal or better players? Plus, personally I don't trust our board a smallest bit in terms of choosing and actually landing the targets. People claiming Kante/Havertz/Mount/Kova or even KK to some extent are "shit" are letting their annoyance overshadow the reality imo.

As I said in the other thread, extremes are a problem. 

We need at least one better than Mud and Mundryk. 

Otherwise, about the others, it depends on who will arrive, but Pulisic wants to leave the club.

In fact, both Pulisic and Havertz want to leave, Mount doesn't want to renew and Kanté was injured for a long time.

About the centrals, I think that, for a season without Champions, I don't think it's the main problem. 

About who to replace them, of course it depends on the replacements and their quality, but this will always be an unknown about any signing.

About Lukaku, I agree, but he doesn't want to stay at the club. What is he supposed to do?

I'm sure he would perform better than Broja and Nicholas Jackson.

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Vegetable said:

One thing is this (and every other really) board dynamics of people wanting all players out because they are annoyed with them, while objectively they are not Saul-level futile, but the true problem is what someone pointed out really well in Noni's thread - Does eg Mudryk and Madueke provide at least Pulisic's level of output? Meeeeh. Still everyone wants Puli out. We have no immediate replacements, not to mention upgrades to a lot of unwanted players. We are betting on Noni becoming better than Pulisic one day, but it creates a huge hole now. Depending on when and IF new players will step up, we may be seeing another relegation battle shitshow next season. Wings are especially concerning to me, but up front it's the same - Lukaku is dreadful, but is Broja getting out and punishing entire PL? Doubt it. Are people we are being linked with as Kante/Kova/Mount replacements are really right here and right now equal or better players? Plus, personally I don't trust our board a smallest bit in terms of choosing and actually landing the targets. People claiming Kante/Havertz/Mount/Kova or even KK to some extent are "shit" are letting their annoyance overshadow the reality imo.

Playing with ten men will be a genuine upgrade on post lockdown Pulisic.

[Mário César 1,478]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

It essentially guarantees that next season won't be successful. All we are hoping for right now is for something better than last season, for some improvement, but dismantling the squad while losing all key players at once, has really never worked. The movement towards younger players all at once has also never worked. Nothing we are doing has ever worked... at least not short-term. If you have trust in the leadership, that the actions are all part of a grand plan, then more power to you.

You keep saying this or that player isn't good enough. The facts are that they are not leaving Chelsea for smaller teams in smaller leagues. They will competing at the same level next season. In better and more established teams too! Good enough at this level is VERY relative. It's all competition and looking for the smallest competitive advantages. How fleshy a player is, or how you like his turns and "vision" means nothing if the player does not provide a competitive advantage. I've seen fantastic skilled players who never done anything meaningful in football, at least not at this level.

It will always be an unknown and will always depend on the quality of Poch, along with the type of hires.

The truth is that a good base of the starting team will remain: Kepa, Reece, Thiago, Fofana, Chilwell, Enzo and Sterling.

It depends a lot on the players that are hired. 

About the fact that some of the players will go to better teams, it's a bit subjective, as Arsenal will buy Havertz for the talent he showed at Leverkusen and for the potential and not for what he showed at Chelsea.

About Mount, United is tired of squandering money on average players and Mount has a lot of hype, a bit like Rice, for example. 

The 2021 UCL campaign overvalued the players, hence they were sold at this price and that's the fact that they still have plenty of market, along with their age, of course.  

If you analyze it coldly, Chelsea doesn't pass 80 points with this set of players. The last time was in 16/17 and there we had players of a much higher level. The most we got was 74 last year and it was very much at the expense of our defense.

The 2012 team won a UCL and yet we had to change many pieces to win a league again, which happened in 2015.

As these are competitions with knockout stages, the context is different and there is no shortage of teams with lower individual quality going further.

It was a remarkable job by Tuchel, who enhanced the team as I don't think any coach could ever do. 

To be more consistent in the league, we need another type of players, in my opinion.

[Mário César 1,478]

30 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I agree we are playing with fire this off-season. People talk about Kai and Mount like they will never be as good as KdB or Salah. The thing is, KdB wasn't much older when we sold him than Kai/Mount are now. For me footballers always really show what they're going to be in the 22-26 bracket, unless they're super elite like Mbappe, Rooney, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Haaland etc, where they started doing it from a very young age, simply because they were elite talents. Personally, for me celebrating the selling Kai and Mount is both highly dangerous and ill thoughtout as these players aren't at their peak yet. I also remember a lot of people for instance celebrating the £18m we pulled in for KdB at the time due to him not being a team player and a prima Donna.

Additionally, people celebrate players like Costa and Drogba but forget that they were both 26+ when they rocked up here. Both of them had to play a lot of football elsewhere in the early 20's for 'lower' teams before they made it. 

This said, I do equally understand the economics of football. Both Kai and Mount have few years on there contracts and, even waiting a year, could be disastrous for their value. So, I can see why the club may want to sell, even if I don't understand why people who are just fans/supporters are happy with it - if you consider the above. 

This said. I am worried about next season. For sure, getting rid of the likes of Ziyech, KK and Mendy for reasonable fees won't hurt that much because there age means we know what they are and that they're only likely to decline from here on in. However, the purchases raise massive concerns with me. Let's look at these in the cold light of day: 

Jackson - 6 months ago was going to Bournemouth and people didn't have a clue who he was. Hits a purple patch towards the end of a La Liga season and people now think he walks into the PL as a proven goalscorer or at least can 'do a job'. For me this is a very highly speculative transfer. 

Caicedo - stats show he is a very good ball winner. However, as soon as Potter left, DZ decided to play him in multiple positions to cover holes. For sure, people can argue that he is so good he can play any position, but another argument is that he cannot nail down his favoured position. I mean, seriously, whenever have you seen a player being switched around like that in there early 20's to fill holes in a 6th placed team? The answer is normally a McTominary/Flecther/Cleverly ( SAF/Man U tbf have always had a great eye for finding roles for grafters.)

For me, as DZ was/is the better tactian, when compared to Potter, this leaves massive question marks for me as whilst some people see Kante, I can also see Ramires. His age is the only reason why I cannot place him yet as he still needs a lot more football in his legs. 

As for the overall balance of the squad, it looks like we're aiming for a U23 side hoping that they'll grow together. This for me is a crap shoot in that if it comes off, it is jackpot. However, we also run the real risk we leave ourselves a lot poorer, even though we convinced ourselves before we threw the dice that things couldn't get worse. 

We screwed up by signing so many players in the winter, especially spending so much money on Mudryk and Madueke. 

It was a mistake.

Neither of them are ready. 

Jackson is only good as a second option. 

As a starter, we need someone a little better.

About the purchases, Nkunku makes me a little optimistic, as well as Caicedo, if he is confirmed. 

I don't think the problem is what we are doing now, but what was done last year, especially in January. 

[NikkiCFC 8,516]

Lucas Hernandez to PSG. They already have Mendes. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

37 minutes ago, Mário César said:

The truth is that a good base of the starting team will remain: Kepa, Reece, Thiago, Fofana, Chilwell, Enzo and Sterling.

It depends a lot on the players that are hired.

That's not a good base 😅 as it includes 2 unknowns (Sterling and Fofana for diff reasons), a retiring player, and one of the worst goalies I've seen play the game. Too small a list to be a good base too.

Good teams are made from repetition and time, and our team will have neither coming next season. It will be a bunch of players getting to know each other.

Right and why do you think the players we sign will be better than the ones we let go? Have they been better thus far? the one player who seems to be good enough is Enzo.

I think we've made our points regarding Kai and Mount. I just think that facts are facts: they both are going to top clubs earning high wages as the top player they are. The rest is opinions, which go into personal preferences.

United is just pulling the oldest trick in the book during a negotiation.

Edited June 27, 2023 by robsblubot

[Tomo 21,751]

11 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

That's not a good base 😅 as it includes 2 unknowns (Sterling and Fofana for diff reasons), a retiring player, and one of the worst goalies I've seen play the game. Too small a list to be a good base too.

Good teams are made from repetition and time, and our team will have neither coming next season. It will be a bunch of players getting to know each other.

Right and why do you think the players we sign will be better than the ones we let go? Have they been better thus far? the one player who seems to be good enough is Enzo.

I think we've made our points regarding Kai and Mount. I just think that facts are facts: they both are going to top clubs earning high wages as the top player they are. The rest is opinions, which go into personal preferences.

United is just pulling the oldest trick in the book during a negotiation.

I think it's fair to say Nkunku is at the very least on a level with those players.

[Pizy 19,258]

Having a coach in well before preseason, telling the club which players he doesn’t want, telling them which players he’d like to sign, and then having a full preseason to drill the players in his idea should automatically mean we’re better than last season. Remember how calamitous our preseason was last year? The signs were there right away when we got smoked by Arse in America.

By all accounts from his Spuds and Southampton days he has been described as the sort of coach who demands superhuman fitness and discipline from his players. He’s got a clear idea and plan. This is what we were missing completely under Potter who seemed in WAY over his head and was battling from minute 1 to try to earn the respect of players who most of which had never heard of him.

Depending on who we buy I’ll be super confident that we’ll be in the mix for top 4.

[Mário César 1,478]

22 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

That's not a good base 😅 as it includes 2 unknowns (Sterling and Fofana for diff reasons), a retiring player, and one of the worst goalies I've seen play the game.

Right and why do you think the players we sign will be better than the ones we let go? Have they been better thus far? the one player who seems to be good enough is Enzo.

I think we've made our points regarding Kai and Mount. I just think that facts are facts: they both are going to top clubs earning high wages as the top player they are. The rest is opinions, which go into personal preferences.

United is just pulling the oldest trick in the book during a negotiation.

Sterling is pretty decent to fight for top4. My problem is who accompanies him.

It's fair to say that Nkunku comes with a lot of credit from Germany and that both Fofana and Badiashile have the potential to be a good duo, just as Lewill comes from a team that had a good season last year. 

Has Havertz been top notch? We are not selling Hazard. We are selling a player labeled as a flop.

He is supposed to be a generational talent and his passing has fallen quite far short.

If he was a top performer, he would be sold for a lot more money.

There are even Arsenal people with doubts about his signing, and United fans praise our ability to sell players who have fallen behind at the club. Just take a look to see what everyone thinks about Mount and Havertz.

Regarding Kepa I agree, but I believe another goalkeeper will come.

Man City in 2018 bought a lot of players in one window and they were champions right away. 

Jorginho was having a first season àem and his legs are gone. You could see that in the first part of last season. 

For me, it will depend on the signings and a good pre-season.

[King Kante 1,643]

4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I think it's fair to say Nkunku is at the very least on a level with those players.

People said the same sort of thing about Sancho and Werner. It is one thing to be a forward who can work in the Bundesliga with the high lines they play over there and translate that to the low block/psycalitily you find in the PL. 

For me, I honestly cannot reasonably judge a Bundesliga forward these days unless they're an absolute elite freak like Haaland. For me, the Nkunku transfer looks as well timed; we signed him early into a good season/just off the back of his best season when still young.

However, when we look at players like Sancho and Werner in the PL vs. Bundesliga or as a reverse Haller, there are absolutely no guarantees a elite forward in Germany will be able to do it in the PL. 

At this moment in time, I am in the wait and see position with Nkunku. For sure, he has some nice assets, but the question really is how will this translate to the realities of the PL, week in, week out?

Let's not also forget he also has 10 appearance for France and hasn't scored a goal for them yet; albeit, it appears he has mainly be used bit part (approx 400-500 mins) and I haven't personally seen him play international football.