Chelsea Transfers

[AOIRO 64]

Jorginho(35m) ＋Emerson(15m)＋10~20m  ←→　DeLight or AlexSandro   (60~70m)

I hope so .....

[Vesper 28,739]

21 hours ago, AOIRO said:

Jorginho(35m) ＋Emerson(15m)＋10~20m  ←→　DeLight or AlexSandro   (60~70m)

I hope so .....

Quote

Jorginho(35m) ＋Emerson(15m)

except we rate those two around £90m plus combined

maybe even £100m

not saying we will get that (especially with Covid)

but we rated Bats at £45m and Baka around £40m

told Real in in 2018 that £45m wasn't good enough for Alonso, told them to pay £55m

we have a consistent over valuation issue with a multitude of players

in our defence if you take COVID-19 away

£90m or so IS close to what I rate Jorgi and Emerson at

Juve thinks a 29 year old (30 in January) Alex Sandro  is worth £45m or so (so they double their money for a player who turns 30 halfway into next season) 

they can sod off with that valuation

almost all fullbacks start to collapse once they hit 30  or 31, the exceptions are extraordinarily rare now (Alves was one) Jordi Alba (and already showing deterioration) in the only truly class fullback on the planet over 30. you cannot name another. Marcelo collapsed quickly when he turned 30.

it isnt like buying a DHMF like Jorgino (especially in Serie A, where he can play well until he is 34, 35ish) or a Pirlo, who played the full 90 minutes in the 2015 CL final at 36 years of age, or La Liga in some cases Even DHDMF is rare for players to continue at the same level, Look at Busquets. His drop off once he hit 31 has been dramatic. Barca fans have been roasting him all season long.

the other position, besides fullback that show a huge drop off after 30yo is traditional DMF. yes you had one Alves-type exception, the also Brasilian, Fernandinho.

After him you have one decent one left over 30 trad DMF atm, Axel Whitsel. Matic and Nzonzi have collapsed. Javi Martínez is reduced to a role player at Bayern. and all 4 are only 31. 

Idrissa Gueye is the only 30yo trad DMF (Whitselowuld too I think, but he is 31) who would probably make our squad. Luka Milivojevic and Marten de Roon (both just turned 29yo) are not true DMF's Kante is 29, and no longer played at DMF atm, and look at his injuries once he turned 29 or so. It is a brutal position, just like fullback.

you have to go down the  28yo (turned 3 and a half months ago) Casemiro to find the next (and arguably the best trad DMF on the planet atm unless Kimmich stays there permanently, which it looks like he may) DMF 

even at only 27yo, you have only two great trad DMF's in Marcelo Brozovic (and he is almost more of a DHDMF, like the 28yo Jorginho) and Thomas Partey.

[AOIRO 64]

If    Jorginho(60m) ＋　Emerson(30m)  =  90m

DeLight  worth  120m  bro.

 

 

[Vesper 28,739]

15 minutes ago, AOIRO said:

If    Jorginho(60m) ＋　Emerson(30m)  =  90m

DeLight  worth  120m  bro.

 

 

not a bro

and no CB on the planet is worth $120m, not even VVD, as he turns 29yo in 3 weeks. If he was 23 to 26, then perhaps, yes, but he will not be sold this summer (or the next etc) but if he was sold in 2021, no team would pay £120m for a 30yo player not named Messi or CR7 

Verane is worth around £100m

Juve paid £77m for de Ligt, and he has regressed a wee bit (not saying he will not come back up) but zero chance in today's market anyone would pay remotely near £120m for him

 

there have been just 7 transfers worth over £100m in todays pounds (without add-ons, if you count those, then Hazard is potentially there as well, but as it stands we only get around £90m so far)

Neymar (was he worth £200m? (it soon is £200m due to inflation) I suppose so, especially if they win the CL, if not, I will call it just oki)

Mbappe (worth every penny)

Philippe Coutinho (disaster)

Ousmane Dembélé (disaster)

João Félix (still has time to make it worth it)

Antoine Griezmann (meh, I think he has peaked and will soon slide down, he only has 14 goals and 4 assists all comps so far, he turns 30yo in March, Barca are fools)

CR7 (it is what it is, his marketing alone pays for it)

 

Other than the top 2 (and CR7)

none have worked out to being worth it, (João Félix is only 20 and has time to come good)

[King Kante 1,474]

9 hours ago, Vesper said:

Juve paid £77m for de Ligt, and he has regressed a wee bit (not saying he will not come back up) but zero chance in today's market anyone would pay remotely near £120m for him

I think when people say De Ligt has regressed need to take a few things into consideration as I think the choice of joining Juve was perhaps not the greatest move for him. 

The first reason I say this is due to his strengths. De Ligt is an absolute beast of a player who uses his strength to dominate his opponents. This is what he was doing at Ajax. However, in Italy you cannot get away with it unless you're super canny (think Riccy C/S.Ramos/the rest of the Juve defence), which he is not. For that reason he is giving a lot of fouls away which can make him look like an Alonso in decision making, but it is rather (imo) that he is too strong for the league and in Northern European countries (England, Germany, France) he wouldn't be getting criticised for this but rather celebrated as he wouldn't be having so many fouls given. 

Second reason is that at Ajax he was leading/structuring the defence and now he has to follow the system. This to me is a little like when JT wasn't allowed to play his own game and told to play to a system (best examples AVB and Solari seasons). When he had to do this his form seriously dropped off as you were nullifying on of his biggest strength (reading of the game/organising) then asking him to rely on his pace (weakest area of his game) which just resulted in him looking like half the player. 

For me De Ligt is sort of in a similar position to Christensen (I actually rate AC pretty high) here in that the league he is playing in doesn't match the strengths of their game. For me, if switch De Ligt to a Northern European league he will almost straight away be considered a Category A/A* player, whilst with AC he would go from a B- to a B+/A in Italy or Spain. 

[Superblue 6,370]

What Juventus have to appreciate here is that we paid big money for Jorginho 2 years ago and since then he's become more prominent within the Italian national squad and he's been first choice here at Chelsea. It's not a situation where he's joined and struggled to adapt or been injured and suffered from a lack of game time. He's become vice captain within a year and has played just as much of an important role under Lampard as he did under Sarri. Even in the current situation why shouldn't we be valuing him at minimum what we brought him for 2 years ago. 

Juventus can place a 'Covid' valuation on him all they like but they're the buying team that want him, whilst we're the selling team that from what it looks aren't actively trying to shop him.

If we went to them trying to offer a player swap for one of their first choice, influential players and were offering our backups in exchange I know exactly what they would do. 

If Juventus want him that badly then they'll either have to stump up big money, or they offer a big name player. 

Like Bayern have found in recent times, they may be able to throw their weight around in their own country, but they won't be bullying us.

[Vesper 28,739]

2 hours ago, King Kante said:

I think when people say De Ligt has regressed need to take a few things into consideration as I think the choice of joining Juve was perhaps not the greatest move for him. 

The first reason I say this is due to his strengths. De Ligt is an absolute beast of a player who uses his strength to dominate his opponents. This is what he was doing at Ajax. However, in Italy you cannot get away with it unless you're super canny (think Riccy C/S.Ramos/the rest of the Juve defence), which he is not. For that reason he is giving a lot of fouls away which can make him look like an Alonso in decision making, but it is rather (imo) that he is too strong for the league and in Northern European countries (England, Germany, France) he wouldn't be getting criticised for this but rather celebrated as he wouldn't be having so many fouls given. 

Second reason is that at Ajax he was leading/structuring the defence and now he has to follow the system. This to me is a little like when JT wasn't allowed to play his own game and told to play to a system (best examples AVB and Solari seasons). When he had to do this his form seriously dropped off as you were nullifying on of his biggest strength (reading of the game/organising) then asking him to rely on his pace (weakest area of his game) which just resulted in him looking like half the player. 

For me De Ligt is sort of in a similar position to Christensen (I actually rate AC pretty high) here in that the league he is playing in doesn't match the strengths of their game. For me, if switch De Ligt to a Northern European league he will almost straight away be considered a Category A/A* player, whilst with AC he would go from a B- to a B+/A in Italy or Spain. 

I agree with all your points, this is what I was trying to say (I did not do a good job at elaborating to why), and yes, Juve was not a great move for him

I would love to have him here

my main point is that there is zero chance he (or any CB) will cost £120m in today's market (and at the age of VVD, the one who possibly would if he was 2 or 3 years younger) IF there was no COVID-19, then maybe Varane (but Real will never sell him now UNLESS we somehow work some swap plus cash or swap plus another play deal that involves Kante,and even that will be hard as hell, given Kante's age (30yo in March) and recent injury history)

I do not think even Barca (as they are the kings of £100m plus buys and have had disastrous luck there overall) are foolish enough to dump £120m on him in 2021, when he is 30yo (not that they can even afford it and he will not be sold by the dippers anyway, Klopp would walk and their scum punters would riot) IF they had the cash, and if Victimpool called them up and said, £120m cash and he is yours (NOW, this summer), yes, they would do it, but all 3 things (No COVID, Barca having the cash, and the dippers selling now) are so NOT happening at all

[ZAPHOD2319 4,470]

Is Nagelsmann have a reason to keep bringing up that Werner is not a done deal? He seems to have done it two or three times? Does he hope to keep him?

 

[Dimitr 488]

26 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

Is Nagelsmann have a reason to keep bringing up that Werner is not a done deal? He seems to have done it two or three times? Does he hope to keep him?

 

It’s not done yet because of covid.

the article says that Werner will definitely leave Leipzig this summer.So are all clear ,it’s matter of time . I suppose this week will be done for sure !

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Dimitr said:

It’s not done yet because of covid.

the article says that Werner will definitely leave Leipzig this summer.So are all clear ,it’s matter of time . I suppose this week will be done for sure !

We were told the deal would be completed this week when the news first broke but it's almost the end of Sunday of "this week".

We were told his release clause expires on June 15 but Bild said it's July 15.

We have Raphael Honigstein saying the delay is due to the inability to do the medical right now while Matt Law saying it's because both clubs are sorting the last details of the contract.

I don't even know what to believe anymore...

[Pizy 18,367]

I think of all the reasons we've been given for the delay, the one I believe is that we're waiting until the Bundesliga season is done before announcing it. I find it ridiculous to believe that the hold up is simply the medical. Signings have been announced before that were then subject to medical later. I think we'd have announced it by now if that's all that it was.

I think we just don't want to create a distraction and an annoyance to Leipzig when they still have a few matches left.

If this deal doesn't happen and he suddenly goes elsewhere after all this then a hell of a lot of extremely reputable journo's will have trashed their names. The intricacies of the deal have been laid out in such detail, though, that I'm not worried. Yet.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 6/13/2020 at 5:25 PM, NikkiCFC said:

It was said like 10 days ago that we are going to get two marquee signings.

Werner being one and he was cheap tbh so we are definitely after another more expensive player. Havertz or Chilwell.

A LB is certainly coming or we wouldnt be this interested in Chilwell/Tagliafico. If they meant one of those as marquee signing, thats a different thing.

Money wise, we still have some cash from Hazard and Morata sales. If we buy LB, one of Alonso/Emerson will go. Bakayoko has no place here either. Jorginho is definately wanted by Juve, at least by Sarri. If they try to get him depends on Pjanic leaving. 

I guess money for Havertz is there or at least could be collected. But its also very likely we have no interest in him because we have many AMs already. Unless we play him as false #9,  but its impossible to know that by any journo, so the rumours are probably false.

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I think of all the reasons we've been given for the delay, the one I believe is that we're waiting until the Bundesliga season is done before announcing it. I find it ridiculous to believe that the hold up is simply the medical. Signings have been announced before that were then subject to medical later. I think we'd have announced it by now if that's all that it was.

I think we just don't want to create a distraction and an annoyance to Leipzig when they still have a few matches left.

If this deal doesn't happen and he suddenly goes elsewhere after all this then a hell of a lot of extremely reputable journo's will have trashed their names. The intricacies of the deal have been laid out in such detail, though, that I'm not worried. Yet.

The ironic thing is, even if we announce this deal after the Bundesliga season finishes, Werner still can't officially become a Chelsea player until Leipzig's Champions League campaign is over and that will only happen in August!

And I said this last week...

On 6/6/2020 at 11:10 PM, Jason said:

MARK MY WORDS...IF THIS DEAL DOESN'T GO THROUGH, I'M GONNA TAKE DOWN THE ENTIRE TC SITE! 

 

[Laylabelle 9,349]

I hope this doesn't rest on getting Champions league next season..cause this deal looking so likely so early on and then we don't qualify and its a case of nahhh cya. Be so gutting! 

[AOIRO 64]

Juve is the only Club  wanted  jorginho maybe .

Juve always tries to save money .

They can pay only 30m~35m for Jorginho.

I think Jorginho deserving 50m(45mCovid)  but  Jorginho´price are 30~35m  (Juve can be bought) .

Not Marketvalue .

[Pizy 18,367]

12 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

I hope this doesn't rest on getting Champions league next season..cause this deal looking so likely so early on and then we don't qualify and its a case of nahhh cya. Be so gutting! 

Oh god. Can you imagine United pipping us to a CL spot at the last minute and him deciding to go there instead? Yikes.

Thankfully, it seems as though Lampard's talks are what sealed it rather than us being in the CL.

[Vesper 28,739]

2 minutes ago, AOIRO said:

Juve is the only Club  wanted  jorginho maybe .

Juve always tries to save money .

They can pay only 30m~35m for Jorginho.

I think Jorginho deserving 50m(45mCovid)  but  Jorginho´price are 30~35m  (Juve can be bought) .

Not Marketvalue .

I see almost no way, even with COVID-19, we will sell Jorginho for anything under a £60m valuation

he is arguably the best (at worst 3rd) DH DMF in the world atm, unless you put Frenkie de Jong at that position and maybe Joshua Kimmich (who is so hard to categorise)

Pjanic has not adapted to Sarriball

the only other two who are near him (Fabinho is not a true DH DMF for me, and Busquets, surprisingly, has fallen really far off the pace) are Sandro Tonali (my number one DMF target, and who will eventually be the best or 2nd best DMF on the planet I think, down the road) and then another long time Chels semi-Target (and still only 27) Marcelo Brozovic

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

Pjanic has not adapted to Sarriball

Has anyone even adapted to Sarri's Sarriball after Napoli?