closed West Ham 0-1 Chelsea

[Jase 43,479]

Our first win at West Ham in 4 years.

Previously won there in 2016/17.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

11 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Tbf Kante fucked up a ton of attacks and failed to send ppl clear on goal several times by hogging onto the ball

christensen was motm for me

It is so unfair how in football in general attacking players always get more praise. We have 2nd best defense in the league. Actually best if you count only Tuchels time. But we are 7th in goals scored. Could be 8th if Leeds score tomorrow. This is why POTY should be Mendy or some defender. Did they did their job consistently good? Yes. Can you say that for any MF or attacker? No. 

[Jase 43,479]

In case anyone was wondering...

Also admitted he should have scored that second chance in the second half.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Great, we secured CL for next season.

[chippy 342]

45 minutes ago, Milan said:

I am actually grateful for the tougher run in and the Real semis. As we have seen under TT, we get much better results when facing a tougher opposition than when facing weaker teams lol

Yes, its quite odd how our really bad results and performances have come against the weaker teams. Outplayed by a very good Liverpool at the start of the season, a shocker at Arsenal and Leicester too good on the day are the only bad ones against the good teams.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, chippy said:

Yes, its quite odd how our really bad results and performances have come against the weaker teams. Outplayed by a very good Liverpool at the start of the season, a shocker at Arsenal and Leicester too good on the day are the only bad ones against the good teams.

Tuchel's tenure has been the opposite of Lampard's.

Under Lampard, we can beat the bottom half teams easily but couldn't beat the top half teams to save our lives. Under Tuchel, it's the opposite.

Pretty sure we have had more points against top half teams than bottom half sides under Tuchel.

[Vytis33 1,272]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Our first win at West Ham in 4 years.

Previously won there in 2016/17.

Saved me from looking this up.  Knew it was a bad run but wow

[different level 1,056]

That Werner miss, though... I'm starting to appreciate Torres and Morata much more.

[cosmicway 1,333]

I told you, against Brighton was a deliberate undeperformance - the reasons mysterious.
Werner's goal was great. It was a tap in in the end but he was involved in the move from the start. Then he went on to lose an easy one in the second half and also Abraham lost the impossible to lose. This team is crying for a Diego, that's for sure.

[Jase 43,479]

In other news...

 

[cosmicway 1,333]

2 minutes ago, different level said:

That Werner miss, though... I'm starting to appreciate Torres and Morata much more.

Torres was great. We expected him to be the new Pele which he was n't but he was great.
Morata then back in Atletico and then in Juve is a different Morata !

[different level 1,056]

4 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Torres was great. We expected him to be the new Pele which he was n't but he was great.
Morata then back in Atletico and then in Juve is a different Morata !

Exactly what I meant. Having to watch Werner gives you a newfound appreciation for twose two and their time here might even seem better than it was in reality.

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, different level said:

Exactly what I meant. Having to watch Werner gives you a newfound appreciation for twose two and their time here might even seem better than it was in reality.

[different level 1,056]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

An expected reaction from a Werner apologist. 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

This is why he has zero open play assists this season.

Still he‘s probably been our best player this season and again showed how key he is to the team again today I felt. He was the only one who really looked likely of getting our second goal due to Werner’s Torres impression. 

Goals and assists can improve as we always say before but his energy, drive and other aspects of his play bring so much to the team. 

Next season with Tuchel I think he can potentially get double figure for goals and improve on assists a lot. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

30 minutes ago, different level said:

Exactly what I meant. Having to watch Werner gives you a newfound appreciation for twose two and their time here might even seem better than it was in reality.

 

39 minutes ago, cosmicway said:

Torres was great. We expected him to be the new Pele which he was n't but he was great.
Morata then back in Atletico and then in Juve is a different Morata !

All three have been somewhat shitty, simply not good enough for Chelsea. Werner has to show more next season otherwise he will be labeled a failure just as the other two.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Magic Lamps

[Jase 43,479]

12 minutes ago, different level said:

An expected reaction from a Werner apologist. 

lol I have no problem with people wanting to criticize Werner. It's people's right to do so and it's fair at the same time. This West Ham game was basically Werner's season in a nutshell.

What I don't get is the constant revision of Torres' and Morata's time at the club just because of Werner's struggles. I don't know if it's because of human's nature where it's easier to remember past things in a positive manner because they are already, long in the past.

Torres is easily the worst. When we bought Torres, he was done physically and mentally because of those injuries at Liverpool. His goalscoring problem is well documented but beyond that, he was genuinely awful. He contributed next to nothing, always looked miserable and tried to shy away from the penalty area or getting at the end of chances. What's more nonsense back then was we tried to make a past-it player work that it held us back for like 3 seasons!

In Morata's case, his main issue was to different Torres'. He had no injury issues, he was (still is) is a good age for a player, had (has) the right attributes for a striker but while, again, his goalscoring problem is well documented, his biggest problem was his mentality. The minute things went wrong for him, he would often just sulk on the pitch. He also often went down easily on challenges, moaned to officials about not getting decisions and I even remember that he complained a few times about not getting the support within the club. It probably also didn't help that he supposedly subsequently suffered depression during his time here.

As for Werner, we know about his goalscoring problems but at the very least, he still works hard for the team and shows the right mentality to try and turn things around, which were things that Morata and Torres did not do. I know that may not sound like much to some people and it remains to be seen whether Werner can turn his goalscoring form around for the better in the long term, but at the very least, that attitude and mindset will act as a good platform to help him turn things around. It would be far concerning if he started to just ghost around on the pitch, doing absolutely nothing (e.g. not even doing the dirty work) while having problems scoring.

[Jase 43,479]

33 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

All three have been somewhat shitty, simply not good enough for Chelsea. Werner has to show more next season otherwise he will be labeled a failure just as the other two.

Maybe the perception/expectation will change somewhat if/when we bring in a new striker this summer. 

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

Torres is easily the worst. When we bought Torres, he was done physically and mentally because of those injuries at Liverpool. His goalscoring problem is well documented but beyond that, he was genuinely awful. He contributed next to nothing, always looked miserable and tried to shy away from the penalty area or getting at the end of chances.

Hmm, stats show something interesting. I do not remember but look at this:

Torres in his first full season here 11/12: 11 goals 16 assists. (This is from Transfermarkt so they count penalties won but the same goes for Werner). 3040 minutes played.

Werner this season: 11 goals 12 assists. 3190 minutes.

When people praise Werner they always say assists, penalties won etc... But was the same narrative with Torres? Because this clearly shows that he also did good job there.

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Hmm, stats show something interesting. I do not remember but look at this:

Torres in his first full season here 11/12: 11 goals 16 assists. (This is from Transfermarkt so they count penalties won but the same goes for Werner). 3040 minutes played.

Werner this season: 11 goals 12 assists. 3190 minutes.

When people praise Werner they always say assists, penalties won etc... But was the same narrative with Torres? Because this clearly shows that he also did good job there.

Don't think everyone shares that same sentiment about Werner but in any case, that argument has been used in the context of Werner being in his first season in English football. That's different from Torres, who already played a few seasons in England by then and did great things for Liverpool. So, there was arguably more expectation on him than on Werner, especially when we tried make him work as the focal point for 3 seasons.

Does this mean that there shouldn't be expectations on Werner? No and I expect him to improve, do much better next season. Getting a new striker this summer would also help with the burden because I don't think Werner will be a consistent 20+ goal striker every season (and this coming from a "Werner apologist"). He can be a secondary source of goals as a wide forward, contributing at least 15 goals per season aka be someone like Son or Mane.