Azul 1,615 Posted February 26, 2021 Share Posted February 26, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jason said: Is that really a good excuse? A player can't control the other 10 or 9 outfield players' performance but he can control his. The whole team was playing bad but did it stop someone like Mount from performing? We were shit in the past at times as well but did it, say, stop someone like Hazard, Costa, Drogba, Lampard etc from making the difference? Were you saying Alonso or Moses or Fabregas had other tasks last time when they played in the same back 3 system under Conte? Alonso got goals at a decent rate back then. Moses chipped in a few here and there. You want to excuse Jorginho and Kovacic, fine. But the WBs in this system are expected to contribute in attack because of they are normally used and given how advanced Alonso and CHO have been getting forward, they should at the very least contribute assists. I used the Pulisic example last season because he wasn't starting games back then but he started make impact off the bench and it made Lampard trust him and play him in the XI. Shouldn't the same thing be happening here? Assuming Tuchel doesn't trust Pulisic to start games right now, then he has to make impact off the bench and "force" Tuchel to start him. That's the point I was getting at. Firstly, I don't deny that Werner has had stinkers this season. I just don't agree that his recent performances or contributions have been as bad as you're making them out to be. On top of that, he contributed to the goal at Spurs, both goals against Sheffield United and Newcastle recently. That's 6 points won right there. I had people coming at me when I said Giroud doesn't do much besides scoring because it seems like people are okay with that. Now that I point out Werner's goal contribution despite his inconsistent performances, much like Giroud, there are people not okay with it. And secondly, if I have different standards for Pulisic, it's because this is his second season at the club and he showed what he could do last season. I had expected him to build on from there, to get better but instead, it looked like he has regressed. With Werner, sure he has had stinkers but just like with the other new signings, am willing to give them some leeway because it's only their first season in English football, first season at a new club, all during a pandemic season no less. Next season, hopefully with some form of return to normality, I would expect much more and better from Werner, Havertz, Ziyech etc. All in all, it's clear that we have different view on things and we can argue till the cows come home without agreeing on them. So, let's just agree to disagree. All I'll say is, at this point, I don't care much any more. If Pulisic, Havertz etc can rediscover their form, then great because it means we will have more options to make things work for the rest of the season. Rotate, start them, play them over whoever. Otherwise, we could potentially be screwed. Mount was incredibly average under Lampard in the November-January period so what is your point? Tell me how good Hazard/Costa/Fabregas were in 15/16 and 17/18 season? Did their form massively drop yes or no? Hazard in particular(plays in Pulisics position) was awful in both seasons because his team was playing very average. So your comparison is invalid. Are we talking about Conte's system roles or Tuchels? You do realise there are major differences don't you? Jorginho and Kovacic have a different roles than Kante and Fabregas, so comparing them doesn't make sense to me, no offense. I agree with the wingbacks, they are tasked to contribute in attack, but again it's not to the extent of the contribution that the attackers have to bring. Hence why I said Werner is the biggest problem, and not the only problem. I don't think you realise that Pulisic had to force his way into the starting XI because Lampard did not rate him. Jesse Marsch, who's the manager of Salzburg said that Lampard did not start Pulisic sooner because of his nationality and not because of his ability. Lampard has had his agendas, and his man management was awful. He even dropped Tomori for Rudiger/Christensen for whatever weird reason. So to use Pulisics situation under Lampard is not the same to be honest. Pulisic should not be in the same situation where he should force himself to earn some minutes, when the players who is ahead him is playing sub-par. The reason why Werner gets some goal contributions is because of the role he has. He is the attacker that is tasked to get in behind and cause havoc with his pace, and thats why he gets more opportunities to score than Giroud. Much like Poulsen who had the same role as Giroud Leipzig(he created chances for Werner), when Werner was actually more clinical than he is now. Giroud was in the World Cup and made Mbappe/Griezmann play much better because of his holdup/linkup play. So the reason why Giroud is not getting as much goal contributions as Werner is because his role is different. He is a better finisher than Werner and we all know that. I just want to see Pulisic in that role, because a fit and an in-form Pulisic has better: ball control, dribbling, link-up play, finishing, movement(compared to current Werner) and passing. By the way I want Werner to succeed and that's why I'm not writing him off to be good in the future. However we are in desperate times and we should not focus on getting a players confidence up when he is underperforming. We should really focus on getting top four and progressing in the CL. Starting Werner in a crucial game might cost us if you look at his form this season. But yeah we can agree to disagree. Edited February 27, 2021 by Azul MONEYBALL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikkiCFC 8,358 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2:0 Christensen 27' Kovacic 71' Vesper and Muzchap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Lamps 11,692 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said: 2:0 Christensen 27' Kovacic 71' nice one. with both players scoring almost never you will get absurd odds for that if you are a betting man. killer1257 and OneMoSalah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoSalah 8,887 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 12 hours ago, NikkiCFC said: 2:0 Christensen 27' Kovacic 71' Aye stick a fiver on those 2 scoring and 2-0 youll probably get a 6 figure return 🤣 Vesper 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Juan 28,164 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 They will get a pen LegenTerry, Vesper and Laylabelle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanP2311 65 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 On 26/02/2021 at 12:49, Azul said: I think it's unfair to mention the games that got Lampard sacked when talking about Pulisic's performance. The whole squad was underperforming, so to look at those stats is irrelevant. Even Thiago Silva was conceding left and right, because we all know the team just had enough of Lampard. Werner was still underperforming when we were on a winning run under Frank. He was missing 1 on 1 chances for fun, yet he still started every single game. Whether you like it or not Werner played wayyyyyy more games than Pulisic this season, and he still has not showed enough even after Tuchel was appointed. All I'm saying is that Werner has played atleast 6 out of the 8 games under Tuchel, and we're still struggling to score goals. I think Werner is a huge reason why we're inefficient up front. A funny thing I realised is that you judge Pulisic's Barnsley game but refuse to acknowledge every single time Werner has a stinker. Why does Pulisic have to put in a worldclass performance after starting just one game, when Werner has been incredibly average most games he's played? Give Pulisic the same run of games Werner has had and judge him based on that. Most players need minutes in order to find their form, and as far as I'm concerned Werner has had way too many minutes compared to Pulisic and still flops. P.S. stop saying players are out of form based on 1 cup game they've played. The whole team was shit that day. Havertz has not even had the chance to prove himself under Tuchel to be honest, and Ziyech looked very good when he came on against Atletico. Agree that one can’t judge Pulisic vs Werner until Pulisic gets the same look (minutes, games) Werner has gotten. Azul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, DanP2311 said: Agree that one can’t judge Pulisic vs Werner until Pulisic gets the same look (minutes, games) Werner has gotten. The funny thing about this Pulisic v Werner comparison is that Tuchel has used Pulisic in different positions. Wolves - LWB (came on when Tuchel threw the kitchen sink and Werner didn't play; Havertz and Ziyech operated alongside Giroud upfront) Burnley - Right ST (came on at HT and operated like a split striker on the right side of Werner) Spurs - Right ST (came on in the second half and operated like a split striker on the right side of Werner) Barnsley - LW (Werner didn't play) Atletico - LW (came on for Werner but hard to judge much since it was only 3 mins and likely done to see out the game with fresh legs) So where exactly does Tuchel see Pulisic's best position is? He already has different ideas to Lampard about other players' best position. And these are the numbers of where Tuchel used to play Pulisic at Dortmund: Attacking Midfield - 27 games Left Wing - 14 Right Wing - 29 And before anyone jumps in and accuses of being biased etc, no, I'm not being pro or anti someone here. Just throwing out some observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanP2311 65 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 If he has decided that he prefers Werner in attack when it’s either/or, and squeezes Pulisic in to other spots whenever he can, I don’t expect that to last into next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, DanP2311 said: If he has decided that he prefers Werner in attack when it’s either/or, and squeezes Pulisic in to other spots whenever he can, I don’t expect that to last into next season. Well god knows at the moment. Tuchel sticking with the back 3 is limiting our options upfront and who would have expected Tuchel to play as a RWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Special Juan said: They will get a pen Probably more chance of Christensen giving away the penalty than scoring, as posted above. Laylabelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Armour 4,449 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Jason said: Wonder if this Tuchel's own method of mind games 😄 He made similar remarks about Luis Suarez before the Atletico game, and it seemed to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 368 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 I'd take a draw right now if offered, won't be great but as long as we don't lose this match we have a chance to leapfrog some of the teams above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nero 1,877 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 Today is the day! Hope Kai starts, he was really good against Atletico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 Just noticed Man United haven't lost an away game in the league since January 19, 2020... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milka 3,394 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) Repeat Tnx. Edited February 28, 2021 by milka Atomiswave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jap Si. 50 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Patrick Bamford said: Today is the day! Hope Kai starts, he was really good against Atletico. He came on 87 minute how can he look good ha ha manpe and OneMoSalah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laylabelle 9,536 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jason said: Just noticed Man United haven't lost an away game in the league since January 19, 2020... Oh goodie...I'll take a draw haha. Our last league home win against was 2017...in fact that was our last league win against then at all! Since then lost 3 drew 3..be nice to change it. Edited February 28, 2021 by Laylabelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyikolajevics 2,706 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Jap Si. said: He came on 87 minute how can he look good ha ha He didn’t make many mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONEYBALL 20 Posted February 28, 2021 Share Posted February 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, nyikolajevics said: He didn’t make many mistakes He was good looking ! A young handsome guy who've costed so much money, beyond his performances, has to be on the pitch 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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