The Tuchel Thread

[Mário César 997]

On 19/09/2021 at 22:34, NikkiCFC said:

Who can stop us in CL? This PSG side does not impress me at all.

I told you....

[Nero 1,847]

I believe in Tuchel. 

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

Now we will see what TT is really made of and if he has learned. 
we all knew Lukaku was not really all that. He made our play worse and is prticulalrly useless in big games which will make or break our season. 
Most of our starting XIs have been questionable this season and now we got punished for it twice. Time to step up 

[SomethingSomething 17]

Not just the front trio, but we are missing inform Chillwell and James. Those two can overlap, allowing wingers to move and create more space. Azpi and Alonso are decent, but too slow and predictable. Imo the importance of fullbacks/wingbacks is very underestimated. Alonso may have good moments, but he doesnt improve our system as a whole like Chilwell did last season.

Question: was bringing Lukaku to add "proven" flat track bully type scorer worth it for the cost of high pressing and chance creation? IMHO no, Werner and Kai worked perfectly in that system, althrough they arent the players that can be relied to score goals. Werner might be shit on the ball, but he was complete question mark for opponents last year in CL. We had so much space thanks to his off the ball runs.

Unpopular opinion, but idealy we should start games with same 11 like last year and bring Lukaku on tired defences if we are struggling. Obviously we wont bench 100m striker but that would probably accomplish the goal to make us more complete compared to last year. Winning a title or two with that strategy would be way more realistic compared to current complete change of entire working system just to utilize Lukaku who isnt good enough against best teams. 

Also on side note, Tuchel improved every single defender here, individualy and as a team. That cant be said the same for forwards. Rarely anyone made any improvement. Ziyech is terrible, Kai, Puli, Werner didnt improve upon their buli games. Mount is only one who did, but is not on that level this year. Its something Tuchel needs to adress. If our attackers didnt improve individualy last year, they worked as a team and that is also gone this year.

[Stats 7,059]

No need to press the panic button yet, but sometimes it would be good to see Tuchel switch formation from time to time. Even when we are 1-0 down, we just stick with the same 3 at the back formation. Why not have more attackers and go 4-2-3-1? Because if we often switch up formation, may make it even more difficult to play against us due to our ability to change formation. It also seems to me that the 3-4-2-1 is not getting consistent performances from our attackers. Every single attacking midfielder/winger and striker seem to get lost and I am not saying it is purely down to formation, however I reckon they would look more fluid in a a natural attacking line up. Is it a coincidence that the defenders all seem to look very good in this formation but the attackers on other hand seem to struggle more? ...

[ZAPHOD2319 4,519]

It has been a poor week from a manager that just won us the Champions League and completely turned around our season last year. Imagine United fans going through this for four years. Tuchel and Chelsea will be fine. Losing to Man City and Juve can be a little humbling back to back, but it is going to happen to just about any team.

 

 

[SomethingSomething 17]

Its also funny how media says we have been disjointed for few weeks now lol.

City game was on saturday, thats not even a week.

It is worrying that we have been beaten tacticaly by high pressing city and ultra defensive juve with no proper answer, but to say this crisis has been going on for weeks is just stupid. 

We are now entering very easy run on paper which should be tailor made for Lukaku and this system, so we will see what happens.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

1 hour ago, SomethingSomething said:

Its also funny how media says we have been disjointed for few weeks now lol.

They are right. We beat Spurs 3-0 but our attack still looked disjointed, along with midfield progression until Tuchel made the change. 

[NikkiCFC 8,058]

21 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

They are right. We beat Spurs 3-0 but our attack still looked disjointed, along with midfield progression until Tuchel made the change. 

And we were not good against Zenit and in Cup game either.

[Clockwork 1,794]

Unfortunately for the first time I see the potential downfall of Tuchel at Chelsea. Every manager has bad results obviously, but I see systemic issues I don’t know if he can overcome. Last season we were great combination of technical and physical ability, this team has lost that due to Lukaku, Alonso, and Azpi as a WB.

[NikkiCFC 8,058]

14 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Unfortunately for the first time I see the potential downfall of Tuchel at Chelsea. Every manager has bad results obviously, but I see systemic issues I don’t know if he can overcome. Last season we were great combination of technical and physical ability, this team has lost that due to Lukaku, Alonso, and Azpi as a WB.

Lets see if TT is different but every Chelsea previous manager when had downfall refused to change much... Conte never dropped his formation, Sarri stubbornly continued with his thing and Lamps refused to try some things many of us expected... If TT continues this formation with 3 or 4 slow players behind striker it wont end well I feel. 

If we go back to back 4 I think 4312 would be more logical for this set of players instead of 433 or 4231 which people usually expect.

 

[Jase 43,479]

5 hours ago, SomethingSomething said:

Its also funny how media says we have been disjointed for few weeks now lol.

Has that not been the case since the last international break?

Villa in the league - we were unconvincing throughout the game and only won because of 2 clinical finishes from Lukaku and Kovacic pouncing on a mistake.

Zenit - struggled to create anything until Azpi suddenly dropping a precise cross for Morata Lukaku.

Spurs - awful in the first half and broke them with a goal from a corner and deflection from 25-30 yards out.

Villa in the league cup - also unconvincing but it could be put down to the wholesale changes made to the team.

All those unconvincing/awful performances led to what we saw against City and Juventus. It wasn't surprising. It had been coming.

[laura90 556]

I'm really sorry. Have been since that interview of his after friendly game when he said something like: Some didn't want to come,  Lukaku did want to come. Like only positive from that transfer was the fact that Lukaku wanted to come. He wasn't happy. It wasn't his choice. Was he in the position to stop this board signing? Maybe he was, but our fourth place/ potential title was at the risk he didn't want to take by refusing striker, albeit wrong one.

Last night consequence of that failed  transfer window was there for everyone to see, subbing our first teamers with academy players and Ross Barkley, clear message for the board that he has very little to work with.

If he persists with this 5 at the back, 343 with Lukaku upfront he is as good as gone. In his mind anyway.

If he tries 4231 with Chilwell and James as FB, Mount, Havertz and Werner behind Lukaku or something similar with four in the back and one attacker more, he will give it a try. To stay and fight for this club. But how?

Those who have signed Lukaku will keep him and this club in chains.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by laura90

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

4 minutes ago, laura90 said:

 

If he tries 4231 with Chilwell and James as FB, Mount, Havertz and Werner behind Lukaku or something similar with four in the back and one attacker more, he will give it a try. To stay and fight for this club. But how?

 

Wouldn't even say that would work either considering we have only Jorginho as a holding midfielder and is suspect defensively, and Rudiger/Christensen both still unproven performing at this same level in a back 4. 

Seems to me that the only solution is to stick with the system but to sacrifice Lukaku when needed. 

[cfccrost 22]

Off: hello guys, i was reading the forum for a year now and finnally i joined.

On: i really think that Lukaku cant play against better clubs because the other two in a 343 sistem are not doing any movements dangerous to the opposite goal and Lukaku is static most of the time.

I think that if we play werner havertz mount/puli as front 3 we would be more attacking beacause their interchanges are something else.

Also kova jorginho pair is statical

And when alonso plays dave can not play

[laura90 556]

4 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Wouldn't even say that would work either considering we have only Jorginho as a holding midfielder and is suspect defensively, and Rudiger/Christensen both still unproven performing at this same level in a back 4. 

Seems to me that the only solution is to stick with the system but to sacrifice Lukaku when needed. 

 If we even try to bench Lukaku in big game he will start a riot and eat all the pies he finds in the city afterwards.

[Clockwork 1,794]

5 hours ago, laura90 said:

I'm really sorry. Have been since that interview of his after friendly game when he said something like: Some didn't want to come,  Lukaku did want to come. Like only positive from that transfer was the fact that Lukaku wanted to come. He wasn't happy. It wasn't his choice. Was he in the position to stop this board signing? Maybe he was, but our fourth place/ potential title was at the risk he didn't want to take by refusing striker, albeit wrong one.

Last night consequence of that failed  transfer window was there for everyone to see, subbing our first teamers with academy players and Ross Barkley, clear message for the board that he has very little to work with.

If he persists with this 5 at the back, 343 with Lukaku upfront he is as good as gone. In his mind anyway.

If he tries 4231 with Chilwell and James as FB, Mount, Havertz and Werner behind Lukaku or something similar with four in the back and one attacker more, he will give it a try. To stay and fight for this club. But how?

Those who have signed Lukaku will keep him and this club in chains.

 

 

 

 

 

Lukaku has stated numerous times that he was set on staying at Inter, but Tuchel convinced  and wanted him at Chelsea. Maybe he wasn’t his first choice, but it is clear that Tuchel wanted him.

[Tomo 21,733]

9 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Wouldn't even say that would work either considering we have only Jorginho as a holding midfielder and is suspect defensively, and Rudiger/Christensen both still unproven performing at this same level in a back 4. 

Seems to me that the only solution is to stick with the system but to sacrifice Lukaku when needed. 

Bar two games we were pretty solid under Sarri and that was with Alonso, Luiz and Kepa playing every week. We were even pretty solid under Lamps once Mendy and Silva were in.

I don't think it will be the complete shit show it's assumed it will be.