The Tuchel Thread

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I disagree, we did have the odd poor result but the quality of football was up there with the best we've ever played if not the best outright.

Problem was he had no plan B, soon as it was sussed that his style relied on Bosingwa and Cole he was stumped. 

Yeah but like I said, we were able to tear the smaller teams apart with the quality football but struggled once we came up against better teams. I do remember that we were poor in that game against United. 

[Nero 1,838]

27 minutes ago, Tomo said:

It's easy to forget how great we looked under Scolari for a while. 

Yeah, I remember the 4:0 win against Portsmouth (Scolari's debut for Chelsea). We played attractive football. Deco/Bosingwa had such an immediate impact on the team in a good way!

 

[different level 1,056]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

Not a fan of the Scolari comparison. Until we lost to West Brom there was another one for best managerial start at Chelsea. Just goes to show how misleading can stats be at times.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Lampard won 29 points in 19 games. After today Tuchel also won 29 points. But with 14 games. 5 games to go. He took us exactly at half season. So I expect him to finish around 10 points better than Frank. Should be more, did not expected to lose points against WBA and Brighton. Major difference is defense. With Frank we conceded 23 in 19 and now with Tuchel just 8 in 14 (5 in a game). But goals are still missing. Just 18 scored in 14 games.

Arsenal and AV have nothing to play for. And add Fulham. This should be 9 points. LC is another game like today, 6 pointer, we should get result there and who knows we may get something out of City again.

Arsenal and Fulham are both London derbies tho. I expect Arsenal to be up for it. On the plus side, London derby means no travelling so. I am not worried about the big games domestically. Vardrid have a habit of fluking themselves through. Most important will be to get kovacic back and everyone stay injury free. if we manage that we have a chance for fa cup and 3rd place.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Really enjoyed his presser today, good on him for speaking out regarding the new CL format. Its BS, did Uefa ask the clubs about this? The managers or players maybe? LIke fuck they did, Uefa just another corrupt entity protecting their own interests, yet they dare to diss the clubs for daring a ESP

[Jase 43,479]

30 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Really enjoyed his presser today, good on him for speaking out regarding the new CL format. Its BS, did Uefa ask the clubs about this? The managers or players maybe? LIke fuck they did, Uefa just another corrupt entity protecting their own interests, yet they dare to diss the clubs for daring a ESP

On the other hand, Pulisic was being a journalist's nightmare. Was asked some tough/tricky questions and gave the most basic/simplest of replies. No juicy quotes for the journalists. lol 

[Tomo 21,733]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

On the other hand, Pulisic was being a journalist's nightmare. Was asked some tough/tricky questions and gave the most basic/simplest of replies. No juicy quotes for the journalists. lol 

He's probably had some resentment for the journalists in this country ever since his first Chelsea interview featured a question about Giroud's new contract before it turning into the Jason Sancho show.

[Jase 43,479]

16 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He's probably had some resentment for the journalists in this country ever since his first Chelsea interview featured a question about Giroud's new contract before it turning into the Jason Sancho show.

That's quite a hot take but okay. 🤣

[Tomo 21,733]

18 minutes ago, Jason said:

That's quite a hot take but okay. 🤣

I wasn't being (totally) serious but I can't imagine it left a good first impression.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

On the other hand, Pulisic was being a journalist's nightmare. Was asked some tough/tricky questions and gave the most basic/simplest of replies. No juicy quotes for the journalists. lol 

Good very good, starve them cunts

[Jase 43,479]

4 hours ago, Tomo said:

I wasn't being (totally) serious but I can't imagine it left a good first impression.

TBF, I don't think Pulisic is someone who says a lot of things in the media. He, after all, has admitted to be an introvert who doesn't like dealing with the public stuff too much.

[NikkiCFC 7,949]

Ok this season, he came mid season, we have a chance for success in 3 comps but for next season board should demand less pragmatism. He is really, really pragmatic coach. 

In Dortmund pressure is low, they have their style of play for decades so he was also like this. But when results are much more important and trophies are expected he turns into this.

It was like this in PSG in important games. For example, quarter final of CL against Atalanta he played with: Navas, Kehrer, Silva, Kimpembe, Bernat, Marquinhos, Gueye, Herrera, Sarabia, Icardi, Neymar.

So 4-3-3 where RB is someone who is more CB, CB on DM plus 2 DMs in Gueye and Herrera. Sarabia also someone who played more as AM in Spain. Only after he made offensive changes with Mbappe, Moting, Draxler and Paredes they won the game with 2 late goals. Very often he played with 3 DMs so basically all cards are on Mbappe and Neymar. But we dont have them. Now in Chelsea he almost always puts lineup where you just do not expect us to score more than once. Defensive wing backs, midfielders who never do anything in the final 3rd... Today we had like 2 offensive players. He needs to change this next season so we always have at least 4 or 5 offensive players like City or Liverpool with very offensive full backs. 

[R2D2 368]

Think he needs a couple top class signings and a good preseason and we will look a lot better going forward next season.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Absolute perfection how he setup us yesterday.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Ok this season, he came mid season, we have a chance for success in 3 comps but for next season board should demand less pragmatism. He is really, really pragmatic coach. 

In Dortmund pressure is low, they have their style of play for decades so he was also like this. But when results are much more important and trophies are expected he turns into this.

It was like this in PSG in important games. For example, quarter final of CL against Atalanta he played with: Navas, Kehrer, Silva, Kimpembe, Bernat, Marquinhos, Gueye, Herrera, Sarabia, Icardi, Neymar.

So 4-3-3 where RB is someone who is more CB, CB on DM plus 2 DMs in Gueye and Herrera. Sarabia also someone who played more as AM in Spain. Only after he made offensive changes with Mbappe, Moting, Draxler and Paredes they won the game with 2 late goals. Very often he played with 3 DMs so basically all cards are on Mbappe and Neymar. But we dont have them. Now in Chelsea he almost always puts lineup where you just do not expect us to score more than once. Defensive wing backs, midfielders who never do anything in the final 3rd... Today we had like 2 offensive players. He needs to change this next season so we always have at least 4 or 5 offensive players like City or Liverpool with very offensive full backs. 

I am completely fine with his level pragmatism. we are hardly operating Pulis style hoofing the ball around. We play out a cultivated football from the back and generally have most of posession. Ppl are getting a bit over the top of it. We should not be expecting every team with half decent player to play like prime barcelon in modern football.

Because we suck at converting our chances we score few goals and that is why ppl tend to say we are pragmatic when indeed we carve teams like City, Real and Atletico open at will. It is not really that important what system we play and which players he picks.What matters is how we operate. In general we do start a lot of attacks, our wing backs push up high and we generally attack in numbers, not like psg or real who only attack with 3 players. Most of our offensive players are just very limited and still not work very well together in a team. It is not only pragmatism that is our problem but lack of creativity in the final 3rd, bad decision making, lack of team movement and in the end lack of quality.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Magic Lamps

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

10 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Ok this season, he came mid season, we have a chance for success in 3 comps but for next season board should demand less pragmatism. He is really, really pragmatic coach. 

In Dortmund pressure is low, they have their style of play for decades so he was also like this. But when results are much more important and trophies are expected he turns into this.

It was like this in PSG in important games. For example, quarter final of CL against Atalanta he played with: Navas, Kehrer, Silva, Kimpembe, Bernat, Marquinhos, Gueye, Herrera, Sarabia, Icardi, Neymar.

So 4-3-3 where RB is someone who is more CB, CB on DM plus 2 DMs in Gueye and Herrera. Sarabia also someone who played more as AM in Spain. Only after he made offensive changes with Mbappe, Moting, Draxler and Paredes they won the game with 2 late goals. Very often he played with 3 DMs so basically all cards are on Mbappe and Neymar. But we dont have them. Now in Chelsea he almost always puts lineup where you just do not expect us to score more than once. Defensive wing backs, midfielders who never do anything in the final 3rd... Today we had like 2 offensive players. He needs to change this next season so we always have at least 4 or 5 offensive players like City or Liverpool with very offensive full backs. 

Mainz and Dortmund was the only time that one of his teams have played this gunho football your expecting but also his first two teams as a coach.

At Mainz they were very much in the mould which Dortmund were but of a lower quality with the same defensive instability, conceding a lot of goals. Its clear hes wanted his teams to tighten up, the structure is better here and was better at Paris, hes clearly evolved as a manager but this notion that he is playing pragmatic football baffles me. We don’t sit with 11 men behind the ball grinding teams down. We press, win the ball back, are the team that is looking to make things happen with the ball. If we took 2/3 chances last night  you wouldn’t be complaining or saying about being pragmatic. Or if we were more productive in the final third in several games with him. It was a European away game as well, that way we played is the best way to be I would say in these sort of ties, we didn’t go and open ourselves up a lot and we were very solid in top of having the best chances. Honestly what more do you want? Swear your complaining for the sakes of it.

I remember that PSG game, Neymar missed about 3 sitters and again PSG dominated the ball. Hardly defensive, just because they didnt score the two goals to the 90th minute. Honestly do some research instead of plastering wild accusations based on a line up 😂 If you seen the game or the highlights you’ll see PSG did more or less everything but score until they did score in the 90th min & stoppage time.

And only like 2 offensive players? I swear your over exaggerating and its only succeeding in making you look daft. 

I will make a prediction now. With the right signings in the summer, I think we will be the closest team to challenge Man City next season. 

[milka 3,346]

I can see  these scenes   next month in  Istanbul 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by milka

[NikkiCFC 7,949]

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Mainz and Dortmund was the only time that one of his teams have played this gunho football your expecting but also his first two teams as a coach.

At Mainz they were very much in the mould which Dortmund were but of a lower quality with the same defensive instability, conceding a lot of goals. Its clear hes wanted his teams to tighten up, the structure is better here and was better at Paris, hes clearly evolved as a manager but this notion that he is playing pragmatic football baffles me. We don’t sit with 11 men behind the ball grinding teams down. We press, win the ball back, are the team that is looking to make things happen with the ball. If we took 2/3 chances last night  you wouldn’t be complaining or saying about being pragmatic. Or if we were more productive in the final third in several games with him. It was a European away game as well, that way we played is the best way to be I would say in these sort of ties, we didn’t go and open ourselves up a lot and we were very solid in top of having the best chances. Honestly what more do you want? Swear your complaining for the sakes of it.

I remember that PSG game, Neymar missed about 3 sitters and again PSG dominated the ball. Hardly defensive, just because they didnt score the two goals to the 90th minute. Honestly do some research instead of plastering wild accusations based on a line up 😂 If you seen the game or the highlights you’ll see PSG did more or less everything but score until they did score in the 90th min & stoppage time.

And only like 2 offensive players? I swear your over exaggerating and its only succeeding in making you look daft. 

I will make a prediction now. With the right signings in the summer, I think we will be the closest team to challenge Man City next season. 

When you play 3 DMs you are pragmatic? Conte played more offensive wing backs. I am not complaining, I said I am OK with playing like this, this season. But next season I would like more progressive football. Do you count Azpi or Chilwell as offensive players? I am sure no but if we go with CHO and Alonso it is different song. He clearly choose first two because of defensive game. Do you expect Kova, Jorginho or Kante to do something in the final 3rd? When I say 2 offensive players I mean we have 9 players on the pitch who are not likely to score. 

For example look what Poch did in PSG. Neymar is AM in 4231. Mbappe and Di Maria wingers and Kean /Icardi striker. Florenzi is offensive right back. Parades is playing regularly. This is way more offensive than what Tuchel used there. I like Tuchel, amazing coach.