closed Man United 0-0 Chelsea

[Jase 43,479]

5 hours ago, Stats said:

The lack of physicality in midfield concerns me. There is no real dominating presence which Rice or to a lesser extent even Barkley offers. Although the defenders played well, in actual open play United scuffed a lot of clear cut chances and their finishing in final third was poor. Like I said before the game, having both Giroud and Tammy on bench was a waste of a sub as it was like 99% likely one of them would not come on. United were controlling possession and I think having someone like CHO to come of the bench would have been useful. Got some games coming up now where I hope we see the dominant team display we showed against Palace and hopefully get Kai back in his natural no.10 position and I guess we can really analyse how much progress we are making. 

Find it crazy that Lampard did nothing to address the midfield in the summer whatsoever, especially when you think that he played in one of the best midfields around during his playing days. He should know the importance of having a good, strong midfield and even more so after watching us having problems last season. Instead, we are having to make do with scraps again, at least until January when we will hopefully sign someone good.

[killer1257 3,282]

Find it crazy that Lampard did nothing to address the midfield in the summer whatsoever, especially when you think that he played in one of the best midfields around during his playing days. He should know the importance of having a good, strong midfield and even more so after watching us having problems last season. Instead, we are having to make do with scraps again, at least until January when we will hopefully sign someone good.

Lampard propably knew. That is why all summer, we were interested in Rice, but because of Corona, nobody wanted to buy our players. If sarri was still Juventus coach, he would have bought Jorginho, but he got sacked and all other clubs wanted to loan out Jorginho.



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[Stats 7,059]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Find it crazy that Lampard did nothing to address the midfield in the summer whatsoever, especially when you think that he played in one of the best midfields around during his playing days. He should know the importance of having a good, strong midfield and even more so after watching us having problems last season. Instead, we are having to make do with scraps again, at least until January when we will hopefully sign someone good.

I know Spurs had luck in their favour with United going down to 10 men but even before Martial was sent off, Spurs were 2-1 up and were quite dominant. They controlled the midfield and was able to deal with United physically also. Tottenham are also a team in transition but the mindset was clear and they knew United were there for taking also.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

Lampard propably knew. That is why all summer, we were interested in Rice, but because of Corona, nobody wanted to buy our players. If sarri was still Juventus coach, he would have bought Jorginho, but he got sacked and all other clubs wanted to loan out Jorginho.

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I suppose it's easy for me to say it but the club should probably have taken a bit of a financial loss and just get rid of the deadwoods - be it on loan or outright sale. Instead, the club seemed set on accepting only a certain price for Player X, Y, Z. Otherwise, no business. 

Between Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante, we're one injury away from being down to bare bones in that area. 

[killer1257 3,282]

I suppose it's easy for me to say it but the club should probably have taken a bit of a financial loss and just get rid of the deadwoods - be it on loan or outright sale. Instead, the club seemed set on accepting only a certain price for Player X, Y, Z. Otherwise, no business. 

Between Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante, we're one injury away from being down to bare bones in that area. 

We bought a lot of players and we need to sell and make some profit, or otherwise we risk getting punished for breaching FFP rules again. I do not know how much profit we need to make. We all do not know about the finances at Chelsea. So, I trust Marina on her decision making.She probably feels that next season, we will make more profit by selling players

 

 

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[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

We bought a lot of players and we need to sell and make some profit, or otherwise we risk getting punished for breaching FFP rules again. I do not know how much profit we need to make. We all do not know about the finances at Chelsea. So, I trust Marina on her decision making.She probably feels that next season, we will make more profit by selling players

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But my point is we should have maybe lowered our asking price a little to get rid of the deadwoods, the unwanted players etc to make some more funds available. 

And had Rice been available for say 30-40 million instead of 80 million, am sure the club would have just gone for him regardless of selling players.

Don't think there's any red flag about our FFP situation.

[Vesper 29,031]

14 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Also our midfield is just plain useless. Kante has fallen of a cliff and looks terrible every game. Jorginho is only suited to very specific situations. Kovacic or Mount are also lightweight and get overrun. Teams simply cut through us whilst we struggle to get balls upfield quickly enough. The team looks totally disjointed . The defence is performing miracles lately tho. I predicted all it takes is to have Mendy+Chilwell playing together to make us win clean sheets and I was right. But it is worrying we can’t really deal with any pressure applied in midfield. 

bit harsh on Kovacic, he can be a wonderful player at times

I honestly think Lampard (utterly bizarrely as he was the best MFer in EPL history) is quite clueless when it comes to our MF and wingers

agree on the rest

[Laylabelle 9,385]

4 hours ago, Milan said:

 

Bless Evra..we didn't play without fear lol.

Both raised very good points though! 

Still amazed at the Mendy moment that nearly was a disaster. Hopefully we won't do that again!

[Fulham Broadway 16,923]

On 24/10/2020 at 9:18 PM, cosmicway said:

MU with Atkinson engine.
We escaped defeat thanks to Kepa staying home.

 

 

Someone needs to examine the VAR refs bank account

[Atomiswave 6,072]

15 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Someone needs to examine the VAR refs bank account

THis shit will be exposed one day im certain of it, but sadly in UK the powerful protect the powerful so it will take longer. There really should be no doubt that EPL is corrupt, PGMOL right after the game said the Azpi pen was not a pen and thus it wasnt given. Thats a huge red flag, they are laughing at us. They were never fit for purpose.

[communicate 2,703]

I am quite confused with people who criticize our midfield. They weren't great but they were fine. My biggest concern is the front 3, probably with time they will combine better but it was all over the place. They don't really combine well, they barely created anything, they can't keep the ball and they can't press.  

It is weird but Werner and Puli kinda want to play in the same zone, Havertz and ziyech also want to play in the same area. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

THis shit will be exposed one day im certain of it, but sadly in UK the powerful protect the powerful so it will take longer. There really should be no doubt that EPL is corrupt, PGMOL right after the game said the Azpi pen was not a pen and thus it wasnt given. Thats a huge red flag, they are laughing at us. They were never fit for purpose.

To what purpose do you claim the system is corrupted? For whose benefit? In other words please identify the powerful who are to be protected in this case?

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Just now, OhForAGreavsie said:

To what purpose do you claim the system is corrupted? For whose benefit? In other words please identify the powerful who are to be protected in this case?

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

3 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

All that is anecdotal. Not tangible. 

I truly believe refs in England are just shit. There's a reason they don't go to world cups any more. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

10 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

All that is anecdotal. Not tangible. 

I truly believe refs in England are just shit. There's a reason they don't go to world cups any more. 

Thats BS in my world, you are free to beleiev what you wanna believe. Even if thats true why havent they been demoted ages ago? Why has it gotten so bad and so obvious even when using VAR? Its match fixing.

When we turn to PGMO that runs refereeing what we find is a highly secretive organisation that operates in a way that seems to invite corruption.  As I have said before if you wanted to ensure that corruption did not take place in refereeing in the Premier League the first thing you would do would be to employ enough top referees so that no team got the same referee more than twice in a season.  Thus if you did have a corrupted ref, the most that could happen would be that the club would be hammered twice.

Other countries in Europe have that rule.  Not the Premier League.  The richest league in the world.   One might want to ask the PGMO why.  But then in trying to do so we find they are a society that is more secret than the Masons.  Indeed you might not know but Untold tried to ask referee associations across Europe a series of questions about how they organise certain matters in their countries.  One replied on day one, the rest never did.  "We heard that an instruction had gone out, not to answer us".  You might wonder why.

The PL imposes all sorts of regulations upon broadcasters in terms of what they can and can’t say.  The PL can do this, because it owns the licence rights, and because there are multiple bidders for the licences they can put all sorts of conditions in their contracts.  And they do. Since they have a monopoly on the sale of the product, there is no limitation on what they can impose in the contract, and if one bidder doesn’t like it, they can’t bid.

And here’s another thing.  Any bidder who wants to bid for broadcast rights or the rights even to publish the fixtures, has to sign a contract about not revealing the restrictions in the contract before that organisation even gets the contract.

Of course none of this means that something is wrong, only that there is far more chance that something is wrong than there is a chance that it is all clean and perfect.  And what tips the balance of probabilities totally in the favour of their being wholesale corruption comes from our referee reviews and the reviews undertaken on the Referee Decisions website by qualified referees who supported clubs other than lets say Chelsea.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,898]

51 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

IM about to leave, but to make it short, you have the FA, PGMOL, people behind the scenes, betting cartels etc. Alot of mony to be made. Surely you have see what is going on in EPL.

And since we know that England is corrupt from its banking systems through to its local councils, why would one be determined to believe that this is not happening in football?

After all, we already know football is staggeringly corrupt in terms of Fifa and Uefa.  I have been through this so many times before on this forum, and there are so many members of Fifa who have either been found guilty or are awaiting trial, that surely not many can be in doubt.

And how many times do we have to quote the refereeing scandal in Italy? The shit is bent to its core. The decision making and inconsistency is a huge red flag initself.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply before heading off.

Yes, I've seen countless cases of poor decisions being made against sides of every stature. It's about the conclusions to be drawn from that evidence however. Personally, I have always dismissed the idea that there was anything other than error involved but Saturday's incident made me pause. It is very, very hard to see how an honest viewing of the VAR replays can have reached any conclusion other than to award a penalty. So, what's to be made of this? You have a very wide ranging list of culprits there.

I'm not saying that I believe this because without actual evidence I don't believe anything, but an individual in the pay of a betting cabal is a circumstance we could all understand. Someone who has been got at, or who can't resist the money to be made is the kind of thing which we know happens. Even if we didn't know it, we could still imagine it. An individual sitting in front of a TV monitor making bent decisions, and being backed by another person higher up giving him cover does not come under my definition of powerful or corrupt however. It's just a criminal activity. On the other hand, The FA does come under that heading so, if true, its involvement would indeed be corrupt. I have to tell you though that I think accusations of their involvement should be filed under crackpot conspiracy theory.

One problem with conspiracy theories is that they always imagine the conspirators to be way more competent than they could ever be in real life. A group of individuals might decide to line their pockets but for the FA to do so as an organisation would involve the knowledge of dozens if not hundreds of people. It would leak. It always does. Trump is a criminal backed by entire organs of the state which are complicit yet his crimes still get exposed. The FA's power by comparison is tin-pot. If they did this we'd know about it sooner rather than later.

In any case, what does the FA as an organisation gain from this behaviour? Money? It would have to be huge amounts to justify the risks and how would they hide so much loot? Any attempt to hide it would have to involve something like fake sponsorships which are really funded by the betting rings. More people in the know, more money chains more certainty of eventual exposure.

Until I see evidence, and supposition is not evidence of course, I will continue to dismiss these allegations. I think we all should. 

[NikkiCFC 8,060]

I think mistakes happen due to some refs refereeing favorite teams and due to incompetence. 

If we had challenge like they do it in tennis, NBA, Atkinson would have to go to the monitor and he would 100% give the penalty.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply before heading off.

Yes, I've seen countless cases of poor decisions being made against sides of every stature. It's about the conclusions to be drawn from that evidence however. Personally, I have always dismissed the idea that there was anything other than error involved but Saturday's incident made me pause. It is very, very hard to see how an honest viewing of the VAR replays can have reached any conclusion other than to award a penalty. So, what's to be made of this? You have a very wide ranging list of culprits there.

I'm not saying that I believe this because without actual evidence I don't believe anything, but an individual in the pay of a betting cabal is a circumstance we could all understand. Someone who has been got at, or who can't resist the money to be made is the kind of thing which we know happens. Even if we didn't know it, we could still imagine it. An individual sitting in front of a TV monitor making bent decisions, and being backed by another person higher up giving him cover does not come under my definition of powerful or corrupt however. It's just a criminal activity. On the other hand, The FA does come under that heading so, if true, its involvement would indeed be corrupt. I have to tell you though that I think accusations of their involvement should be filed under crackpot conspiracy theory.

One problem with conspiracy theories is that they always imagine the conspirators to be way more competent than they could ever be in real life. A group of individuals might decide to line their pockets but for the FA to do so as an organisation would involve the knowledge of dozens if not hundreds of people. It would leak. It always does. Trump is a criminal backed by entire organs of the state which are complicit yet his crimes still get exposed. The FA's power by comparison is tin-pot. If they did this we'd know about it sooner rather than later.

In any case, what does the FA as an organisation gain from this behaviour? Money? It would have to be huge amounts to justify the risks and how would they hide so much loot? Any attempt to hide it would have to involve something like fake sponsorships which are really funded by the betting rings. More people in the know, more money chains more certainty of eventual exposure.

Until I see evidence, and supposition is not evidence of course, I will continue to dismiss these allegations. I think we all should. 

Well said, on the topic of sponsors: This doesn’t change the fact the league is inevitably going to be corrupt because there are huge sponsors who need to be kept happy. There are worldwide TV rights at stake, including huge markets such as China and the USA as well as money from other Middle Eastern states such as Qatar). There are also TV rights for Saudi Arabia themselves, with the country being one of the richest on the planet. But the biggest thing for the Premier League, who market themselves as the best league in the world, is the image. For me personnely its clear the league is bent. For how long must we say the refs are bad, how incompenet can you become before your replaced? None of that is happening. Theres not 1 rule, no consistency at all and blatant BS gets swept under the carpet. Udt last season were pushed to get CL, by one BS pen after the other.