closed Chelsea 0-0 Sevilla

[Strike 7,490]

5 hours ago, Azul said:

I hope Kovacic starts against Sevilla. Jorginho can't handle pressure and I feel like Kovacic-Kante duo could work if Kante sits in front of the centre backs while Kovacic is playing a box-to-box role.

Sevilla's pressure is basically like Southampton but on steroids. We need fast twitch midfielders like Kovacic to move with the ball and bring it forward to our attackers. Jorginho is very slow and he always chokes under pressure, I hope Lampard realizes that and changes his midfield for this game.

They should but they were so bad in their most recent game against West Brom. Inexplicably out of position when the ball turned over 

[Azul 1,615]

14 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Was it not a muscle injury? 

Look at what happened to Rudiger, Kante, Emerson and Hudson-Odoi last season. No point in continuing along the same path, or it will potentially get worse and then we will be stuck without him for longer. 

Would be hugely irresponsible. Even more so considering the fact we've already made these mistakes last season. If Frank thinks rushing him back and Mendy is not even close to being fully recovered, he would be incredibly naïve to do so. Even with Kepa, play Caballero. 

I will be interested to see what happens, if he did play and he ended up injured again for longer. Like Rudiger and Emerson last season which it didn't seem to irk as many people as it should have as it is poor management and planning. I suppose with 5 subs its not a major issue but still, don't take the chance just play Willy.  

They thought it was a torn muscle but it wasn't, it's a bruised muscle. It's not a serious injury, that's what Matt Law and the rest of the reporters said. 

With Kante etc they had real injuries so you can't compare them to Mendy. If Mendy had a bruises muscle one and a half week ago I'm sure he's fine. Besides a keeper's job isn't even as physically demanding as an outfield player's.

[Azul 1,615]

6 hours ago, Strike said:

They should but they were so bad in their most recent game against West Brom. Inexplicably out of position when the ball turned over 

That's because Lampard instructs them to both press high up. If Kante sits back and is right infront of our defenders, then I guarantee you that our whole game changes!

Lampard doesn't realise what kind of a player he has at his disposal, if used correctly Kante is the best DM in the world. He has the ability to win us titles, but that can't happen when he's told to be a box-to-box midfielder.

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Azul said:

That's because Lampard instructs them to both press high up. If Kante sits back and is right infront of our defenders, then I guarantee you that our whole game changes!

Lampard doesn't realise what kind of a player he has at his disposal, if used correctly Kante is the best DM in the world. He has the ability to win us titles, but that can't happen when he's told to be a box-to-box midfielder.

The problem with Kante is that he is not a defensive midfielder who sits in and just mops everything up. He's a defensive midfielder who seeks and destroys attacks before they even get near the defence. That's why we had success last time he was used alongside Matic for example. Kante went around to stop danger while Matic was the one who sat in and mopped things up behind and around him. 

[Puliiszola 519]

I am mentally prepared for another embarassment, so bring it on!!! 

God, all my favourites seem to be sucking the life out of me. Clippers and now Chelsea. Oh well...

[Azul 1,615]

27 minutes ago, Jason said:

The problem with Kante is that he is not a defensive midfielder who sits in and just mops everything up. He's a defensive midfielder who seeks and destroys attacks before they even get near the defence. That's why we had success last time he was used alongside Matic for example. Kante went around to stop danger while Matic was the one who sat in and mopped things up behind and around him. 

In France he is.

[killer1257 3,282]

In France he is.

No, he is not. Played most of his career in a double pivot with Pogba

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[Azul 1,615]

2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

No, he is not. Played most of his career in a double pivot with Pogba

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

Exactly and he was sitting deep while Pogba joined the attack on some occasions. In Chelsea he is waaay to high up the pitch, you can't tell me that was the same in France.

When did I ever say he wasn't in a double pivot with someone btw?

[Azul 1,615]

7 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

No, he is not. Played most of his career in a double pivot with Pogba

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Even Didier Deschamps talked about how he has an advanced role in Chelsea compared to France and he prefers to use him in a more defensive role. 

Lampard said that Kante is versatile and can play many different positions and that wants to utilise that before last season started. Now he is giving him this "advanced role" at the cost of us our defense being more easily exposed.

I'm surprised Chelsea fans of all people don't know this. Mindboggling to say the least.

 

[Strike 7,490]

20 minutes ago, Azul said:

Even Didier Deschamps talked about how he has an advanced role in Chelsea compared to France and he prefers to use him in a more defensive role. 

Lampard said that Kante is versatile and can play many different positions and that wants to utilise that before last season started. Now he is giving him this "advanced role" at the cost of us our defense being more easily exposed.

I'm surprised Chelsea fans of all people don't know this. Mindboggling to say the least.

 

I think you're wrong. Kante has hardly, if ever played in the lone DM role. One of the occasions he did for an extended run was at the back end of last season after lockdown when Jorginho was benched.

[Azul 1,615]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

I think you're wrong. Kante has hardly, if ever played in the lone DM role. One of the occasions he did for an extended run was at the back end of last season after lockdown when Jorginho was benched.

I didn't say he played in a lone defensive role, lol why are people putting words in my mouth.

He played in a pivot for France, and he is the one that sits deep out of the two. In Chelsea he plays in a pivot but he is the one that presses up high. 

It's very easy to understand what I'm saying here.

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Azul said:

Even Didier Deschamps talked about how he has an advanced role in Chelsea compared to France and he prefers to use him in a more defensive role. 

Lampard said that Kante is versatile and can play many different positions and that wants to utilise that before last season started. Now he is giving him this "advanced role" at the cost of us our defense being more easily exposed.

I'm surprised Chelsea fans of all people don't know this. Mindboggling to say the least.

But with Kante is this really just a Lampard thing? Conte tried Golo deeper when he first arrived and it backfired spectacularly (especially vs Arsenal) and when he reverted to 352 the following season Bakayoko/Drinkwater were the deeper player and then there's obviously the Sarri situation. Getting him to sit deeper takes away his main attribute that made him WC in the first place.

[killer1257 3,282]

Even Didier Deschamps talked about how he has an advanced role in Chelsea compared to France and he prefers to use him in a more defensive role. 
Lampard said that Kante is versatile and can play many different positions and that wants to utilise that before last season started. Now he is giving him this "advanced role" at the cost of us our defense being more easily exposed.
I'm surprised Chelsea fans of all people don't know this. Mindboggling to say the least.
 

Because under Sarri and Lampard he used to play as a no. 8,which is also not his position.

He plays best in a double pivot, in which his task it is to destroys counter attacks. Destroying counter attacks in a space that is very bright and he has to go forward to destroy counter attacks. That leaves him to positions, in which a natural no. 6 would not go. Matic sits deep and Kante destroys counter attacks in front of him. If one somehow gets through or Matic has to win aerial duels, he is there for Kante and complements him.

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[Strike 7,490]

2 hours ago, Azul said:

I didn't say he played in a lone defensive role, lol why are people putting words in my mouth.

He played in a pivot for France, and he is the one that sits deep out of the two. In Chelsea he plays in a pivot but he is the one that presses up high. 

It's very easy to understand what I'm saying here.

Deeper of the pivot as well. He hasn't played there much. He was always the seek and destroy midfielder with someone always playing in the deeper role when he went hunting for the ball - Matic for a while before it was Jorgi later. I've always felt leaving Kante as the deeper midfielder (even in a pivot) leaves you with the in-game risk of him being caught out of position because his natural instinct is to go for the ball and cut it out

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

We are talking about what needs to be done from now until January, when Lampard can get a DM. There's is no better alternative than a 433 with Kante sitting. But with that must be a disciplined and structured style of play. Congest then hit them on the break. 

There's literally no other solution that can fix our embarrassingly blatant problem. 

[Azul 1,615]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

But with Kante is this really just a Lampard thing? Conte tried Golo deeper when he first arrived and it backfired spectacularly (especially vs Arsenal) and when he reverted to 352 the following season Bakayoko/Drinkwater were the deeper player and then there's obviously the Sarri situation. Getting him to sit deeper takes away his main attribute that made him WC in the first place.

What destroyed vs Arsenal is us playing a 4-man defence when we didn't have the suitable players for that. Furthermore what's your understanding of when I'm talking about Kante playing a bit more deep? What I mean by that is that he doesn't join the attack but instead just stays back to collect the ball when needed. 

 

33 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

 

 

Because under Sarri and Lampard he used to play as a no. 8,which is also not his position.

He plays best in a double pivot, in which his task it is to destroys counter attacks. Destroying counter attacks in a space that is very bright and he has to go forward to destroy counter attacks. That leaves him to positions, in which a natural no. 6 would not go. Matic sits deep and Kante destroys counter attacks in front of him. If one somehow gets through or Matic has to win aerial duels, he is there for Kante and complements him.

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Do we have a Matic atm? We don't, Jorginho is very ineffective defensively. 

You can't argue Kante is the one that sits deep when he plays in a double pivot for France. These are facts. That is the sole reason his performances are better there. Instead of Kante joining the attack like he does rn, his job should be to collect the ball when needed that's it. That's what I'm talking about when I'm saying that he should stay deep. 

We don't have Matic, so our only option is to implement Deschamps tactics which literally won France the WC.

28 minutes ago, Strike said:

Deeper of the pivot as well. He hasn't played there much. He was always the seek and destroy midfielder with someone always playing in the deeper role when he went hunting for the ball - Matic for a while before it was Jorgi later. I've always felt leaving Kante as the deeper midfielder (even in a pivot) leaves you with the in-game risk of him being caught out of position because his natural instinct is to go for the ball and cut it out

There's two options we have right now:

1. Give Kante the role he has at France and let him only do defensive tasks and not join the attack at all

2. Let Jorginho sit deep, and risk his defensive weaknesses being our downfall

Sadly we don't have someone like Matic, so we have to adapt and looking at his performances in the French national team, he looks like a completely different player. Why? Because he has a more defensive role and he doesn't join the attack whatsoever.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

15 hours ago, Azul said:

I hope Kovacic starts against Sevilla. Jorginho can't handle pressure and I feel like Kovacic-Kante duo could work if Kante sits in front of the centre backs while Kovacic is playing a box-to-box role.

Sevilla's pressure is basically like Southampton but on steroids. We need fast twitch midfielders like Kovacic to move with the ball and bring it forward to our attackers. Jorginho is very slow and he always chokes under pressure, I hope Lampard realizes that and changes his midfield for this game.

The last thing we need is Jorginho under a Sevilla press. Unless we are playing Kante, Kova and Jorginho all together to cope in the midfield, Jorginho in a 2 man midfield is a big NO. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

12 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

The last thing we need is Jorginho under a Sevilla press. Unless we are playing Kante, Kova and Jorginho all together to cope in the midfield, Jorginho in a 2 man midfield is a big NO. 

The entire team needs to be well in tune with a pragmatic approach. I'd have Kante sit with Kovacic, and our attack relaxed on their press. 

Mendy

Dave---Silva---Zouma---Chilwell

Kante---Kovacic

CHO------Havertz-----Pulisic

Werner

[kellzfresh 7,229]

13 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

The entire team needs to be well in tune with a pragmatic approach. I'd have Kante sit with Kovacic, and our attack relaxed on their press. 

Honestly I always prefer to press back against a team that presses. I wouldn't want a situation where Sevilla holds the ball and sustains pressure against us for long periods. Press back and win the balls against them high up the pitch since we would not be comfortable building out from the back under intense pressure.

Also If possible play more long balls and try to win the second balls, instead of the rubbish attempt to pass out of the back against the southampton press on Saturday. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,382]

9 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

Honestly I always prefer to press back against a team that presses. I wouldn't want a situation where Sevilla holds the ball and sustains pressure against us for long periods. Press back and win the balls against them high up the pitch since we would not be comfortable building out from the back under intense pressure.

But when we press there is a massive disconnect between the defence and midfield, something time and time again continues to get exposed. Bayern, excuse my french, raped our midfield last season given this blatant weakness.