closed Spurs 1-1 Chelsea

[coolhead23 1,147]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

But with Lampard? Sure, some players are out at the moment but he's been here for over a year and every match is basically a guessing game over the system, game plan and starting XI. It's hard to know what he is trying to do and what to expect anymore when there is no consistency whatsoever.

Out of curiousity, how not having a steady "system" or a starting Xl an issue for us? 

Last season we did finish 4th (obviously not per our standards) with the so called not steady plan ... If we finish over that this time around how does it matter till the time it's being delivered. 

Lampard seems to play the ultra press game through the middle while trying an overload in the opposition half, for that he uses different formations. The problem I see is that we are not clincal when it comes to finishing. 

[Jase 43,479]

20 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Out of curiousity, how not having a steady "system" or a starting Xl an issue for us? 

How does one expect the team to form any sort of cohesion, understanding and team chemistry, especially when there are new players, when the team and system are being constantly changed in every single game? How many of the other top teams out there chop and change as often as we do?

21 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Last season we did finish 4th (obviously not per our standards) with the so called not steady plan ... If we finish over that this time around how does it matter till the time it's being delivered. 

Because we want to see progression? Because we want to have a way of playing, an identity? You watch us these days or over the last few months, can you tell what our playing style is? You look at some of the other big teams and you can tell what their playing style is and what to expect from them. Do we know that of ours? Under past managers like Mourinho, Conte, Sarri, their football wasn't the most exciting but the way of playing was there, the identity was there. Can the same be said about Lampard?

24 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Lampard seems to play the ultra press game through the middle while trying an overload in the opposition half, for that he uses different formations. The problem I see is that we are not clincal when it comes to finishing. 

Funny thing is, our pressing game has rarely come off. We don't press effectively as a team and we only press in parts of the game as opposed to sustained pressure throughout. And no, chopping and changing formations for this do not make sense. Liverpool, for example, rarely ever changed their formation and their pressing game is on the money every time. 

[coolhead23 1,147]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

How does one expect the team to form any sort of cohesion, understanding and team chemistry, especially when there are new players, when the team and system are being constantly changed in every single game? How many of the other top teams out there chop and change as often as we do?

The bigger point I was making is that why are expecting that the coaching staff along with the Manager doesnt have a plan. Maybe we dont see it or everyone has a different interpretation about it. At the end of the day, Lampard's head is on the line not yours or mine. 

 

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Because we want to see progression? Because we want to have a way of playing, an identity? You watch us these days or over the last few months, can you tell what our playing style is? You look at some of the other big teams and you can tell what their playing style is and what to expect from them. Do we know that of ours? Under past managers like Mourinho, Conte, Sarri, their football wasn't the most exciting but the way of playing was there, the identity was there. Can the same be said about Lampard?

Again how does it matter if Lampard is able to achive better than last season. If he does, isnt that Progression!!! All the other managers which u have mentioned are in the limelight for some time now and have a style they have prefected over a period of time. Not saying Lampard doesnt has one, Lampard is wanting to play free flowing attacking brand of football ... has he prefected it, not even remotely or maybe he is the one who wants to try different things at different times. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Funny thing is, our pressing game has rarely come off. We don't press effectively as a team and we only press in parts of the game as opposed to sustained pressure throughout. And no, chopping and changing formations for this do not make sense. Liverpool, for example, rarely ever changed their formation and their pressing game is on the money every time. 

That I'm completely aligned with and seems there are gaps which needs to be filled if he has to continue with that gameplan. We really dont know what is going in Lampard's head and like I said if he doesnt deliver it is going to be his head. But completely writing him off and saying he doesnt has a plan is just pure ranting for the heck of it. 

And lets not talk about Klopp's Liverpool because it is not a fair comparsion ... he has being pretty much built the team and for the last 2 years has the prefect players to drive his system. I very well remember the stick that he got during his first year. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, coolhead23 said:

The bigger point I was making is that why are expecting that the coaching staff along with the Manager doesnt have a plan. Maybe we dont see it or everyone has a different interpretation about it. At the end of the day, Lampard's head is on the line not yours or mine. 

I don't get the point you're trying to make here.

2 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Again how does it matter if Lampard is able to achive better than last season. If he does, isnt that Progression!!! All the other managers which u have mentioned are in the limelight for some time now and have a style they have prefected over a period of time. Not saying Lampard doesnt has one, Lampard is wanting to play free flowing attacking brand of football ... has he prefected it, not even remotely or maybe he is the one who wants to try different things at different times. 

Because if we want to take a long term approach to things, then progression has to be more than just results, no?

Lampard can talk about how he wants to play and this and that but it's one thing to talk, talk and talk, it's another to put it into practice. Right now, there is a lot unconvincing things we are seeing and we are more than a year into his regime here, not over a month.

4 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

That I'm completely aligned with and seems there are gaps which needs to be filled if he has to continue with that gameplan. We really dont know what is going in Lampard's head and like I said if he doesnt deliver it is going to be his head. But completely writing him off and saying he doesnt has a plan is just pure ranting for the heck of it. 

The problem is Lampard hasn't done this before. He hasn't managed a club at the highest level and hasn't managed high profile players before. He basically doesn't have a track record and we have nothing to fall back on now to say "right, things are now a bit tricky but because he has done this and that in the past, we know things will turn out alright". We can only judge and evaluate his work based on what we see out there in every match. There is only hope or maybe even blind faith that things will turn out fine under Lampard after the unconvincing stuff that we have seen so far. 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

How does one expect the team to form any sort of cohesion, understanding and team chemistry, especially when there are new players, when the team and system are being constantly changed in every single game? How many of the other top teams out there chop and change as often as we do?

Because we want to see progression? Because we want to have a way of playing, an identity? You watch us these days or over the last few months, can you tell what our playing style is? You look at some of the other big teams and you can tell what their playing style is and what to expect from them. Do we know that of ours? Under past managers like Mourinho, Conte, Sarri, their football wasn't the most exciting but the way of playing was there, the identity was there. Can the same be said about Lampard?

Funny thing is, our pressing game has rarely come off. We don't press effectively as a team and we only press in parts of the game as opposed to sustained pressure throughout. And no, chopping and changing formations for this do not make sense. Liverpool, for example, rarely ever changed their formation and their pressing game is on the money every time. 

Pressing in parts of the game is how pressing is done otherwise you run out of steam. Bayern press maybe 25% of the time they don’t have the ball. I think it worked pretty well in the first half. Spurs always lumped the ball up the pitch.

our system is 4231 with the 3 interchanging ans this season. Lots of fullback underlaps, crossing and cut backs. I think there is a clear, idea just not being executed well

I think the idea of how we play is getting is clearer by the day

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Magic Lamps said:

Pressing in parts of the game is how pressing is done otherwise you run out of steam. Bayern press maybe 25% of the time they don’t have the ball. I think it worked pretty well in the first half. Spurs always lumped the ball up the pitch.

our system is 4231 with the 3 interchanging ans this season. Lots of fullback underlaps, crossing and cut backs. I think there is a clear, idea just not being executed well

I think the idea of how we play is getting is clearer by the day

But we try to press on the front foot as opposed to say sitting back and only pressing when the opposition get into certain areas of our half. 

And it's one thing to press in parts of the game, it's another to press together as a team. I can see the attacking players try to press but the midfielders and defenders just don't do the same. The collective pressing isn't there. It's little wonder why we get passed around and our defence is gotten at so easily every time. 

[Special Juan 28,141]

really pleased with Wendy, barring the one little slip through his hand error he was really good. Controlled the area very well and I am sure going forward he can't be worse than Krapa.

The game itself was frustrating as fuck AGAIN!! The one moment that sticks out is Mount breaking away and kicks the fucking ball straight at the CB, and as it went on I kept saying to my lad we will be punished, and we did, it happens all the time in football.

Screaming Ziyech and Pulisic is all well and good but the fact remains they aren't ready and there was enough pure talent on that pitch and how dominant we were to finish that Spurs side off. For me we bottled it last night, we are becoming a soft touch without a spine or direction of starting 11.

[coolhead23 1,147]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't get the point you're trying to make here.

The point is that they dont have to come out and tell the world what is the plan ... It is left best to your imagination, if you cant see it ... fair enough, they wouldnt stop. 

 

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Because if we want to take a long term approach to things, then progression has to be more than just results, no?

Lampard can talk about how he wants to play and this and that but it's one thing to talk, talk and talk, it's another to put it into practice. Right now, there is a lot unconvincing things we are seeing and we are more than a year into his regime here, not over a month.

The problem is Lampard hasn't done this before. He hasn't managed a club at the highest level and hasn't managed high profile players before. He basically doesn't have a track record and we have nothing to fall back on now to say "right, things are now a bit tricky but because he has done this and that in the past, we know things will turn out alright". We can only judge and evaluate his work based on what we see out there in every match. There is only hope or maybe even blind faith that things will turn out fine under Lampard after the unconvincing stuff that we have seen so far. 

I dont get your point ... in one instance you cry that he doesnt has a plan and compare him to likes of managers who have a definte styles and now you're sort of sympathetic that he doesnt have much years under his belt. 

As I said before, I'm sure Lampard knows what he is doing (I get his gameplan he is trying to put up) and if he doesnt it is going to be his head on the line. And we will have a new manager and the discussion will carry on like how we have been doing all these years post a bad game. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

in one instance you cry that he doesnt has a plan and compare him to likes of managers who have a definte styles and now you're sort of sympathetic that he doesnt have much years under his belt. 

Experienced manager or not, one should have a plan, an idea of how to play etc but with all the constant chopping and changing, it is difficult to see one.

And no, I wasn't being sympathetic. I was merely stating the point that we do not know whether whatever plan Lampard has in the end will work out or how things will turn out because he doesn't have a track record of doing this. Any indication of whether it will work out in the end depends on what we are seeing now week in week out.

48 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

As I said before, I'm sure Lampard knows what he is doing (I get his gameplan he is trying to put up) and if he doesnt it is going to be his head on the line. And we will have a new manager and the discussion will carry on like how we have been doing all these years post a bad game. 

Then why are we all here? Why do we even have forums to talk about football at all? 

[killer1257 3,282]

 

These are the moments, in which good players finish the game.

But I know, this is Lampards fault that his players can't make simple passes...

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[killer1257 3,282]

The point here is we're chopping and changing a lot like Emery did at Arsenal, not whether we are good or bad with the stats etc.

If we do not rotate, you will come out and say why is Lampard burning out our players and causing injuries. When he does rotate, you come out and say why are we rotating so much because Emery also rotated. I mean, what do you want lol.

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[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

If we do not rotate, you will come out and say why is Lampard burning out our players and causing injuries. When he does rotate, you come out and say why are we rotating so much because Emery also rotated. I mean, what do you want lol.

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Rotation in League Cup games was to be expected anyway since it's the norm but are you really gonna tell me the chopping and changing in league games, for example, have been helpful? 

[coolhead23 1,147]

40 minutes ago, Jason said:

Experienced manager or not, one should have a plan, an idea of how to play etc but with all the constant chopping and changing, it is difficult to see one.

And no, I wasn't being sympathetic. I was merely stating the point that we do not know whether whatever plan Lampard has in the end will work out or how things will turn out because he doesn't have a track record of doing this. Any indication of whether it will work out in the end depends on what we are seeing now week in week out.

That what i mentioned, he would surely have a plan some one us r able to see it as well ... if we cant see it, it's not his problem. For him he needs to deliver. 

42 minutes ago, Jason said:

Then why are we all here? Why do we even have forums to talk about football at all?

Arent we talking already? And having a difference of opinion. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Rotation in League Cup games was to be expected anyway since it's the norm but are you really gonna tell me the chopping and changing in league games, for example, have been helpful? 

This will be a hard season anyway with so many games to play without having a pre season. Rotation is a must and when Kante for instance does not play, we usually have to play 4-3-3 instead of a 4-2-3-1 because we do not have any real DM. Guys like Pulisic will not survive without rotation. Rotation during this season is even more required than during normal seasons. Rotation does not help all the time, but it is better than having 10 players injured in an already injury prone squad.

 

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[Johnnyeye 7,510]

at the end of the day thats a chance of winning a trophy this season gone, all that is left for us to realisticaly win is the FA Cup

[Hutcho 8,443]

at the end of the day thats a chance of winning a trophy this season gone, all that is left for us to realisticaly win is the FA Cup

Champions league is ours

[Johnnyeye 7,510]

1 hour ago, Hutcho said:

1 hour ago, Johnnyeye said:

at the end of the day thats a chance of winning a trophy this season gone, all that is left for us to realisticaly win is the FA Cup

Champions league is ours

i like your optimism  

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, killer1257 said:

This will be a hard season anyway with so many games to play without having a pre season. Rotation is a must and when Kante for instance does not play, we usually have to play 4-3-3 instead of a 4-2-3-1 because we do not have any real DM. Guys like Pulisic will not survive without rotation. Rotation during this season is even more required than during normal seasons. Rotation does not help all the time, but it is better than having 10 players injured in an already injury prone squad.

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Sure but don't act like you don't know what I mean. It's one to rotate to prevent injuries, it's another to rotate for the sake of rotation. 

[Atomiswave 6,117]

I was fuming the whole second half, it was poor as fuck with no intent or direction and whatever little attack we had, we fucked it up. We are not the only ones with no pre-season, you have teams with inferior players looking better and fitter, clear intent. Not good enough by half.

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

Trump said before 2016 election that he could go out on 5th Avenue and kill somebody and that would not hurt him in the polls. And this is true. 

Some Chelsea fans have the exact same blind love for Frank.