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29. Kai Havertz


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16 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Lol.

We lost our best player last summer, we were getting a complete overhaul of an identity. This was a new league for "jack of all trades" mount, and yet was he actually given time or respite by the likes of you despite showing 10 times better talent and putting in better performances than Kai.

Stop acting high and mighty when you specially have acted much worse in ridiculing our own youth player time and again. 

Everyone has a right to ask a question off kai. When you pay 70m, it's not just for a "future" star, it's a fee paid for someone who is already supposedly on a level close to that. So far, Kai has shown NOTHING to be remotely considered as a future superstar or ballondor winner

Also, stop using "new league" as an excuse. It's downright lazy reasoning. His problems are not because he is playing in a new league. It's because he can't do the bloody basics right. Can't pass, can't hold on to the ball or shield it, can't bloody turn with the ball without taking 5 touches and most importantly can't run or give a fuck. None of those things are down to a new league. They are down to poor basics and lazy play.

Read this, from BBC

i'll go along with this instead of your assessment.

Chelsea manager Frank Lampard says people must be patient with £71m signing Kai Havertz.

The Germany international was taken off after 68 minutes of the 1-0 defeat at Everton on Saturday, the fourth successive game he has been substituted.

But Lampard defended the 21-year-old midfielder.

"In the modern day there is going to be criticism for every player of every club who loses a game," he said.

"We should be patient with Havertz from the Chelsea end because he is a top-quality talent who has come into this league.

"He can play in any position across the front three and he has played on the right countless times before he played for Chelsea.

"People who want to jump on to criticise [should] just wait and give a young player time. I know the player that Kai Havertz is going to be."

Since joining from Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen in the summer, Havertz has scored three times in 17 appearances - netting a hat-trick against Barnsley in the Carabao Cup.

Speaking to Football Focus at the weekend he said that contracting Covid-19 in November had hit him "very hard" but said he is now "very fit again".

Lampard said the aftermath of Saturday's defeat at Goodison Park will be "a challenge for the players".

"In the Premier League you are going to lose games and it is important to put perspective on it," he said.

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Who cares? He can make it iconic just like Zola 25 and Terry 26

https://theathletic.com/2044050/2020/09/05/havertz-transfer-mclachlan-marina-phone-call-lampard-real-madrid/ Some inside info from The Athletic on our pursuit-purchase of Havertz... - Club s

I wait around all day incase we announce him and then as soon as I take an afternoon nap it happens and I miss it. 😆😆😆 LETS GOOOOO! I distinctly recall saying when we were first linked

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1 hour ago, bigbluewillie said:

Read this, from BBC

i'll go along with this instead of your assessment.

Chelsea manager Frank Lampard says people must be patient with £71m signing Kai Havertz.

The Germany international was taken off after 68 minutes of the 1-0 defeat at Everton on Saturday, the fourth successive game he has been substituted.

But Lampard defended the 21-year-old midfielder.

"In the modern day there is going to be criticism for every player of every club who loses a game," he said.

"We should be patient with Havertz from the Chelsea end because he is a top-quality talent who has come into this league.

"He can play in any position across the front three and he has played on the right countless times before he played for Chelsea.

"People who want to jump on to criticise [should] just wait and give a young player time. I know the player that Kai Havertz is going to be."

Since joining from Bundesliga side Bayer Leverkusen in the summer, Havertz has scored three times in 17 appearances - netting a hat-trick against Barnsley in the Carabao Cup.

Speaking to Football Focus at the weekend he said that contracting Covid-19 in November had hit him "very hard" but said he is now "very fit again".

Lampard said the aftermath of Saturday's defeat at Goodison Park will be "a challenge for the players".

"In the Premier League you are going to lose games and it is important to put perspective on it," he said.

Mate, this is fine. Obviously FL rates KAI, that's the only reason he was willing to spend so big on him.

Point is not just giving Kai the time. I am all willing to give players the time, specially young ones. Have you seen me moan about mount, James, pulisic, Tammy? Infact I am one of the few who are consistently defending these players. But there is a massive difference between these players and Kai.

Read this one with Tomo:

 

 

I feel it's fine to question a player, I am not hating on him. I just got riled up when a poster like R2D2, who is nothing but a troll, and has been bashing players like mount left right and center, has the balls to call others crazy for raising some issues with Kai. 

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Honestly baffles me how anyone can be so bitter about one of our own. 
It's not even like he's a bellend like Dele Alli either, he's one of the most genuine guys in football.
Yeah just get behind all of them. I want them all to be amazing. Why's anything gotta be one or the other. I don't get it
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It's lazy to think spending such money on a 21 year old will immediately reap dividends. People are quick to forget that footballers are human and all will take different times to settle into new surroundings. Havertz even more so being younger than our other signings and he's never had to deal with a transfer move before either, so Leverkusen has been his life.

This season more than most will impact adaptation also with no pre season, covid restrictions making it more difficult to settle into a new country and to top it off he contracted Covid too. My mate was recently positive, who is far fitter than I am, and said it's the worst illness he can ever remember suffering from and literally wiped him out. It sounds like Havertz has reacted in the same way to it and he looks really off the pace at the moment, not in sync with teammates and has lost confidence.

The area of the pitch he plays he's going to get closed down quicker and less time on the ball and he just needs to adapt to that pace. It's a different situation to say Werner, who has such ridiculous pace that teams will stand off him rather than go up against him, affording him more time and space usually to operate. 

Before Covid whilst he wasn't pulling up trees he looked like he was growing as a player and there's certain aspects of his game which are almost effortless. When he's in full flow I've no doubt he'll offer something that other players in our team don't offer and will be a big player for us. If that isn't until later into this season, or even next season then so be it, I'm happy to remain patient because I think he'll be worth the wait.

Some really key players for us in recent years took a long time to settle (a whole season for some) and were far more experienced and mature than Havertz. The likes of Makelele, Essien, Ivanovic, Pedro. Even English players like Ashley Cole and Lampard himself took a long time to get going. It's pretty embarrassing if some people are that short sighted to consider him a bust or waste of money within 3 months. 

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On 12/13/2020 at 8:07 PM, NikkiCFC said:

When we played 4-2-3-1 Mount played as winger or AM. Havertz also. Now when we play 4-3-3 they are both playing number 8 unless rare winger performance like Kai yesterday. So this season Kai does not play advanced.

That guy is a legit troll, it's like he hasn't even been watching the games this season to know this, but of course this stat doesn't favor Mount so he is clutching at straws. Each time a game finished and I came here to read comments this guy is the first to post in the Mount thread and laugh and make ironic remarks at people who don't rate Mount but the saddest thing is you would think he is putting Messi like performances for why he is so smug, which he clearly isn't.

That said I like how Mount has been playing last couple months or so, nothing special but at least he is making himself useful and has an impact in games unlike before.

As for Havertz exciting times ahead once he settles, if Mount was given over an year time to adapt, Havertz surely deserves as much considering he is a lot better which is why is baffling that guy is questioning him for over a month now despite being here for less than 4 months, price tag should be irrelevant especially in these times right now since the market went to shit, it doesn't always reflect what you think you paying for to what you actually get which is insane talent but not the finished product.

Now it's up to Frank now to develop this talent and make sure he takes the right steps to reach that finished product. Look at Oscar bangs of talent and mismanaged by Mourinho who tried to turn him into Mikel 2.0

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8 hours ago, R2D2 said:

That guy is a legit troll, it's like he hasn't even been watching the games this season to know this, but of course this stat doesn't favor Mount so he is clutching at straws. Each time a game finished and I came here to read comments this guy is the first to post in the Mount thread and laugh and make ironic remarks at people who don't rate Mount but the saddest thing is you would think he is putting Messi like performances for why he is so smug, which he clearly isn't.

That said I like how Mount has been playing last couple months or so, nothing special but at least he is making himself useful and has an impact in games unlike before.

As for Havertz exciting times ahead once he settles, if Mount was given over an year time to adapt, Havertz surely deserves as much considering he is a lot better which is why is baffling that guy is questioning him for over a month now despite being here for less than 4 months, price tag should be irrelevant especially in these times right now since the market went to shit, it doesn't always reflect what you think you paying for to what you actually get which is insane talent but not the finished product.

Now it's up to Frank now to develop this talent and make sure he takes the right steps to reach that finished product. Look at Oscar bangs of talent and mismanaged by Mourinho who tried to turn him into Mikel 2.0

Hahahah.

Lets have a poll on here and see who people think is an actual troll or not. Wanna put your ass where your mouth is?

Anyone and their freaking dogs could see the talent in mount. Anyone except for the SAD and PATHETIC "fans" like you who just want the next shiny toy. Stop putting yourself up on a pedestal because you are literally nothing but a troll who gets his jollies off of ridiculing players/people from behind a computer and a protected VPN. 

Also, it should be irrelevant of the price tag? Seriously? :ph34r: What are we ,7? Welcome to the real world buddy. Where the price tag dictates the expectations, sets the pressure on a player, magnifies that pressure from the media and the fans. Some get over it, others crumble under it. 

Anyways, I am done with a troll like you. But if you really want a poll, lets have it, will be interesting to see.

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1 hour ago, Puliiszola said:

Hahahah.

Lets have a poll on here and see who people think is an actual troll or not. Wanna put your ass where your mouth is?

Anyone and their freaking dogs could see the talent in mount. Anyone except for the SAD and PATHETIC "fans" like you who just want the next shiny toy. Stop putting yourself up on a pedestal because you are literally nothing but a troll who gets his jollies off of ridiculing players/people from behind a computer and a protected VPN. 

Also, it should be irrelevant of the price tag? Seriously? :ph34r: What are we ,7? Welcome to the real world buddy. Where the price tag dictates the expectations, sets the pressure on a player, magnifies that pressure from the media and the fans. Some get over it, others crumble under it. 

Anyways, I am done with a troll like you. But if you really want a poll, lets have it, will be interesting to see.

I don't care about any childish 4chan type poll or something to notice all your posts are passive aggressive, some may not like me or my views which is fine, thing is all of them show their age and can actually make a post without feeling the need to personal attack or insult, can't say the same about you.

You comment in this thread for over a month now asking what are Havertz strengths and after say everyone can spot Mount's talent from a mile away, can't take you seriously. You tried to call me an idiot for saying the assist/goal contribution is irrelevant when comparing them because Havertz played in a more advanced role, which is nonsense as well. You remind of a certain poster on the other forum called didier or something who couldn't make a point without insulting and was angry at anyone who didn't rate Willian.

If you are done with people like me, why even quote me when I didn't mention you to begin with in this discussion, the post wasn't necessary addressed to you but to the people who defended Mount for over an year now but can't have little patience with Kai even though he is new and adapting while coming back from strong covid symptoms. I know someone who contacted the virus in April and he says even now he doesn't feel 100% so it's not as easy as testing negative and healthy again.

Did Chelsea take money from your account to pay Kai to pretend the price tag is relevant? We as fans knew before he even signed he was never worth that price tag for what he offers right now but long term if he develops and fulfills his huge talent will be worth it. Think you should be more angry with players like Drinkwater who was already 27 and the finished product than thinking price tag for a 21 years old with huge potential should dictate expectations. If we bought 21 years old Hazard this year you can be sure we would need to shell out 120 millions if not more to get him. I agree with the last part that some crumble under the pressure of price tag but again should be irrelevant as of now since we obviously haven't seen anywhere near enough to draw such a conclusion.

Last point I want to make, you must really hate me or simply misjudging to think I hate or dislike Mount as a person or human being, I dislike him as a football player and what he offers for my favorite team, last couple months he improved I admit but isn't anywhere near a world beater as one would believe reading some of the posts here, imagine taking Frank nepotism and Chillwell friendship banter serious. Mind you those words about ridiculing or attacking people, a bit of humbleness wouldn't hurt since you've clashed with several other people on here if I remember right.

Anyways we've derailed enough this thread, feel free to do what you like but I won't respond furthermore in relation to this off topic and Mount for that matter just Kai if you have anything to add.

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42 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

If you are done with people like me, why even quote me when I didn't mention you to begin with in this discussion, the post wasn't necessary addressed to you but to the people who defended Mount for over an year now but can't have little patience with Kai even though he is new and adapting while coming back from strong covid symptoms. I know someone who contacted the virus in April and he says even now he doesn't feel 100% so it's not as easy as testing negative and healthy again.

You call someone a troll, and expect them to take it lying down just because you did not "quote" them? Seriously? So just because i dont "directly quote" anyone, I can write whatever I want? Are those the rules? Also, I did not be the judge, jury and executioner for KAI like you are/were with MOUNT. Understand the difference. I dont "hate" KAI like you and some other posters do with Mount, thats the difference. I want him to succeed but I can question him and his performance and most importantly his attitude in the game which seems lazy. Understand these differences where one poster is hating on a player and another is asking question regarding his performances and in a lot of cases accepting the answers. Being patient with a player does not mean you forgive lack of effort or lack of some very very basic play. Kai not able to hold the ball has nothing to do with Covid. Stop using that as an excuse. If he is yet to be fit, then he should not be available for selection. Stop using Covid for his footballing abilities.

42 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

I don't care about any childish 4chan type poll or something to notice all your posts are passive aggressive, some may not like me or my views which is fine, thing is all of them show their age and can actually make a post without feeling the need to personal attack or insult, can't say the same about you.

You comment in this thread for over a month now asking what are Havertz strengths and after say everyone can spot Mount's talent from a mile away, can't take you seriously. You tried to call me an idiot for saying the assist/goal contribution is irrelevant when comparing them because Havertz played in a more advanced role, which is nonsense as well. You remind of a certain poster on the other forum called didier or something who couldn't make a point without insulting and was angry at anyone who didn't rate Willian.

LOL. WHAT?

42 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

Did Chelsea take money from your account to pay Kai to pretend the price tag is relevant? We as fans knew before he even signed he was never worth that price tag for what he offers right now but long term if he develops and fulfills his huge talent will be worth it. Think you should be more angry with players like Drinkwater who was already 27 and the finished product than thinking price tag for a 21 years old with huge potential should dictate expectations. If we bought 21 years old Hazard this year you can be sure we would need to shell out 120 millions if not more to get him. I agree with the last part that some crumble under the pressure of price tag but again should be irrelevant as of now since we obviously haven't seen anywhere near enough to draw such a conclusion.

Brilliant argument. So just because Chelsea did not take money from my account i should be happy with them for anything? Extrapolating that arguement, do you own chelsea? Why does it winning or losing affect you? Do you work in the organization? Why does Chelsea affect you at all. I guess being a fan, things happening with Chelsea, be it good or bad, affect you, even if its Chelsea's money which could probably have been used better. And suprising you raise this point, when all you do is hate on mount. Has he personally harmed you in some way? :D

 

42 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

Last point I want to make, you must have serious issues to think I hate or dislike Mount as a person or human being, I dislike him as a football player and what he offers for my favorite team, last couple months he improved I admit but isn't anywhere near a world beater as one would believe reading some of the posts here, imagine taking Frank nepotism and Chillwell friendship banter serious. Mind you those words about ridiculing or attacking people, a bit of humbleness wouldn't hurt since you've clashed with several other people on here if I remember right.

Anyways we've derailed enough this thread, feel free to do what you like but I won't respond furthermore in relation to this off topic and Mount for that matter just Kai if you have anything to add.

 THIS is the gist of the matter. Just because you DISLIKE mount and ridicule him no matter how good he is or how well he is rated in the footballing community, you think anyone who is "questioning" any player must DISLIKE the player the way you do. Let me tell you THAT is not true. You can want a player to succeed and still question them. And question them when its legit instead of being blinded by the dislike. I DONT DISLIKE KAI. I cant be any clearer about it. I also have yet to see him being anywhere close to the 70mil player and the world beater that he is touted to be. I see a lot of issues with the basics of his game that you would not see with some of the other future superstars like mbappe (since he is supposed to be in THAT elite category of talent). Am i able to make myself clear? I honestly dont need advice from someone whose 50% of the posts are about ridiculing player(s). I am fine the way i am, I call it as i see it. If someone is being unfair to a player of the team, I would call him/her out on it even if it rubs people the wrong way. I dont go about hating on our own player(s) or calling them names like "Donkeywater" or "Donkeyoko" or "Batshit" just for a few cheap likes. If the admins have an issue with me, they are yet to inform/warn me as of YET. Until them, you can continue your crusade on our player(s), and i will continue mine. 

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1 minute ago, DDA said:

He looks scared to play.

Gotta wonder whether all this shoehorning from Lampard has been more bad than good...

Also find it a bit strange that Lampard took like 2 months to integrate Pulisic last season but immediately threw Havertz into the fire and doesn't seem to want to take him out of it for a while.

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We took a gamble on Havertz and it failed.

Don't get me wrong., I'm not complaining that we signed we him. We definitely needed a player of his profile and potential.

But to think he was ready to become a regular member of the starting 11 and sending the likes of Barkley/RLC away on loan was a gamble that has paid off poorly so far IMO.

He was unlucky with the covid infection, but there are so many times this season where he just doesn't know what to do with the ball and just ends up conceding possession.

Looks like he is one of those players that needs to be slowly worked into the team and the league, unlike the likes of Hazard/Pulisic who were far more mature with their decision making, at the time of their debut

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