Mikel John Obi

[GodZola 630]

Now i will keep this clean and as simple as i can, just answer my questions and don't off on a tangent.

people are bloody awesome on this forum... had any1 else in the chelsea shirt put on the performance mikel did today, that guy might have been elevated to the god status but the bloody hypocrites that people are, wont even give mikel the respite of this game.

This was part of your first post, which refers to members on this forum are hypocrites because they hadn't at this early stage give Mikel any credit - yes or no? What you have failed to acknowledge is that i actually did!

In the same sentence you refer to anyone bar Mikel had put in that performance then they would of been elevated to god status - yes or no? Now i said that i could not understand why you could refer to this performance as god like status because he was no better than any other player and certainly not as good as Ba or Cech, i then stated that you pointed out that he is a player with limitations and that he needed other quality players around him to make him play well, i found this shocking as you already put his performance as 'god status' yet he is a player that you regard as average because of his flaws that YOU mention. I also asked you if you criticize him after a bad game - you have yet to answer? Lastly i stated that little word CONSISTENCY as if he has it his game then all the detractors would get off his back - including me.

You then state this,

find a damn post where I have given mikel "a god like status"... normally i totally stay away from the mikel thread due to its absolute ridiculousness but the amount of crap written about mikel over the past 2 matches made me comment. if u dont believe it, have a long read of this thread. so I AM NO HYPOCRITE.

so by your account i am to believe that team compostion would and should have no affect on a player's performance.

Members posts over 2 match's made you get involved so much so you call them hypocrites without foundation, as i said most say he is neither good or bad and mostly state he has to instill consistency in his game - hardly critical, now who specifically are you calling a hypocrite? Again you get this bit wrong by referring that you are no hypocrite - i never mentioned anything of the sort? Your last sentence was also wrong for you to state this as you put a different meaning to it, however i will answer that later.

You then said,

if u believe mikel-rambo dont play well together.

but i said

I've read on this forum that Mikel & Rami don't play well together

Another error from you as you can quite clearly see there is a difference, is it not?

i should enlighten u that this is a forum where different people with different thought processes comment on almost everythin about this club and most of those opinions are bound to be conflicting.

I agree with the above but was using this as a point of reference to your previous post and you don't have to enlighten me! The next few posts are neither here nor there but Blue Armour gave you a few names and i can add Torres to those with Bertrand and Ivanovich who have recently come in for some stick, ask yourself why Makelele or Drogba didn't get abused?

Now for your last post, i don't need to bring in anybody posts to back up my points which is what you are trying to substantiate. As i said earlier i will answer the bit about his limitations that YOU stated and what others as well as YOU believe he needs good players around him, I just don't disagree with you on this - i disagree with the whole forum if this is the case, let me explain, what happens when there are no quality players on the pitch to 'look after Mikel'? Well Saturday was a prime example - we lost and Mikel was at fault, when Makelele played we were winning titles, do you think he needed Lampard to hold his hand? Lets take Essien pre injury, do you think he needed shadowing by Maka? Essien was also versatile he played in a number of positions including right back in the CL final, do you think Mikel could do that? Did Ballack need anybody's assistance when he took over the mantle in the double year? He played as a deep lying mid and was exceptional, those who don't believe me go and buy the DVD. My point is if we are going to get back to winning titles and challenging we need players that are consistent and don't need other players to bring out the best in them - he should stand up and be counted. It goes without saying that the reason why we are now struggling to make a CL place let alone challenging for the title is because we have lost some quality players who could be relied upon game after game. Lets not also forget we got knocked out of the CL this year.

As for your conversation with another member, did you reference he was a hypocrite, then later state he needs 'to understand football'? These statements obviously got me vexed, the hypocrite thing was in general but the fact you tell me 'to understand football' is arrogance and makes my blood boil - you have no idea at the level i played at or my understanding or intelligence of the game.

The end of the day Mikel will get criticized until he plays at a high level every week and you your fellow Mikel fans will have to accept that i'm afraid but you also have to recognize that members are not just sledging him for no reason (well most) they have valid reasons and also reservations, it's my belief that Lampard should be given a new contract but many do not, i don't go after them with big stick because there opinions differ to mine - i welcome it, its good to hear a different side to what i am thinking and then provide a decent debate..........

[zolayes 14,489]

only kalou ever produced such violence ... I liked Kalou and I like Mikel ... I fucking hate Scumpool ,,Torres and RUPERT

[Miguelito 459]

If Mikel is a key player, then god fucking help us, we may aswell kiss every future potential trophy good bye.

That's a joke of a comment, he's been a key player through our most successful time in our history, with the most trophies. So that comment makes no sense.

Now I'm not a real pro mikel or against mikel, I'm in the middle. I think he is just amazing at some things he does, and at others he needs to step up. He's been great at times this season and other games no where near good enough.

I don't think our system fits him at all right now, a 4-3-3 would be better and if mourinho comes in the summer I can see him turning in to the player that Jose always wanted him to be. It's weird tho because he was THE best young attacking midfielder but Jose saw something that made him want to be dm and that affect has stuck to him. IF Jose comes I see him fulfilling his potential as a dm.

He lacks some concentration at some points in ridiculous situations and he is sooo slow but one thing I think he does really well is not stop attacks from happening, but preventing them to. I think he does put himself in spots that clogs/blocks passing lanes or spaces where people would run in to.

In the end I see him as someone that needs to improve as he could be oh so good, but I don't see him being replaced

[didierforever 7,349]

Now i will keep this clean and as simple as i can, just answer my questions and don't off on a tangent.

This was part of your first post, which refers to members on this forum are hypocrites because they hadn't at this early stage give Mikel any credit - yes or no? What you have failed to acknowledge is that i actually did!

In the same sentence you refer to anyone bar Mikel had put in that performance then they would of been elevated to god status - yes or no? Now i said that i could not understand why you could refer to this performance as god like status because he was no better than any other player and certainly not as good as Ba or Cech, i then stated that you pointed out that he is a player with limitations and that he needed other quality players around him to make him play well, i found this shocking as you already put his performance as 'god status' yet he is a player that you regard as average because of his flaws that YOU mention. I also asked you if you criticize him after a bad game - you have yet to answer? Lastly i stated that little word CONSISTENCY as if he has it his game then all the detractors would get off his back - including me.

u still have a problem understanding one simple sentence. THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. in my first post did i say mikel "deserved" the god like status??? for the last time NNNNOOOOOO. he performed well and should have been praised rather than being mocked by the supporters of his own club. but if some1 like lamps/luiz had put such a performance in the mid, people would have made a great fuss. HENCE THE HYPOCRISY. how could u not understand something so simple. its been more than a day since we have been arguing over one sentence i wrote and i am sure u for some reason are so totlly obsessed with it that u have read that statement more no. of times than every1 combined on this forum. (also before u jump down my throat, i would like to say that i love lamps with all my heart but i was angry at the posts in this thread so please dont come after me saying u hate lamps)

Now

Members posts over 2 match's made you get involved so much so you call them hypocrites without foundation, as i said most say he is neither good or bad and mostly state he has to instill consistency in his game - hardly critical, now who specifically are you calling a hypocrite? Again you get this bit wrong by referring that you are no hypocrite - i never mentioned anything of the sort? Your last sentence was also wrong for you to state this as you put a different meaning to it, however i will answer that later.

without foundation??? seriously... have u read what people write about mikel here. kojo, only place to be , backstreet09 and these are just a drop in the ocean of mikel detractors. so NO again. i dint call them hypocrites without foundation because when there fav players has a good match, they have a field day.

also i must tell u that my first post was not meant for u ALONE. i never said "godzola" is a hypocrite and does this or that. it was a general statement and because of your obsessiveness (again) i have had to take names of members which i really really dint want to do.

N

I agree with the above but was using this as a point of reference to your previous post and you don't have to enlighten me! The next few posts are neither here nor there but Blue Armour gave you a few names and i can add Torres to those with Bertrand and Ivanovich who have recently come in for some stick, ask yourself why Makelele or Drogba didn't get abused?

bertand, kalou, meireles - none of these players are/were more than chelsea squad players. we can debate on kalou but the point is his performances were so poor sometimes that he could never really cement his place in the 1st team. could he? mikel is one of our main players and u cant deny it whether u love him or hate him. he has his off days like any player (and way more than we would want from one of our starters). torres bashing is "justified" because of his passion, fight, performance and every bloody thing. as far as iva is concerned, just consider a scenario on which luiz gave away those 2 goals against swansea. imagine the uproar and the ridicule he might have faced and compared to it iva had nothing. people are pin pointing him out because that guy used to be a BEAST but has consistently been performing horrendous since the end of last season. be it getting booked, leaking goals, etc. so u cant compare that to mikel who has one bad game after a couple or more good/decent ones. so for me no one gets as much unfair criticism than mikel on this forum.

N

Now for your last post, i don't need to bring in anybody posts to back up my points which is what you are trying to substantiate. As i said earlier i will answer the bit about his limitations that YOU stated and what others as well as YOU believe he needs good players around him, I just don't disagree with you on this - i disagree with the whole forum if this is the case, let me explain, what happens when there are no quality players on the pitch to 'look after Mikel'? Well Saturday was a prime example - we lost and Mikel was at fault, when Makelele played we were winning titles, do you think he needed Lampard to hold his hand? Lets take Essien pre injury, do you think he needed shadowing by Maka? Essien was also versatile he played in a number of positions including right back in the CL final, do you think Mikel could do that? Did Ballack need anybody's assistance when he took over the mantle in the double year? He played as a deep lying mid and was exceptional, those who don't believe me go and buy the DVD. My point is if we are going to get back to winning titles and challenging we need players that are consistent and don't need other players to bring out the best in them - he should stand up and be counted. It goes without saying that the reason why we are now struggling to make a CL place let alone challenging for the title is because we have lost some quality players who could be relied upon game after game. Lets not also forget we got knocked out of the CL this year.

dude when did i ever compare mikel to MAKELELE or with ESSIEN. i admitted mikel is way off the best of the cdms and even some1 like busquets. i admitted mikel has his shortcomings big time. did i ever say mikel is our future and we dont need to buy a cdm this summer. y r u taking things out of contexts.u r making it sound like i said their would probably be no cdm better than mikel ever. u dont need to tell me or any other person about mikel's shortcomings and where he exactly stands in the grand scheme of things.

but the point is right now till may do we have a better option in deep mid than mikel. the answer is NO. so what should we do? cry like liverpool fans about their glory days and awesome players or give ourselves a chance to redeem this season in any way possible by playing to our strengths. i think every chelsea fan's answer would be the same.

N

As for your conversation with another member, did you reference he was a hypocrite, then later state he needs 'to understand football'? These statements obviously got me vexed, the hypocrite thing was in general but the fact you tell me 'to understand football' is arrogance and makes my blood boil - you have no idea at the level i played at or my understanding or intelligence of the game.

The end of the day Mikel will get criticized until he plays at a high level every week and you your fellow Mikel fans will have to accept that i'm afraid but you also have to recognize that members are not just sledging him for no reason (well most) they have valid reasons and also reservations, it's my belief that Lampard should be given a new contract but many do not, i don't go after them with big stick because there opinions differ to mine - i welcome it, its good to hear a different side to what i am thinking and then provide a decent debate..........

did i reference YOU as a hypocrite? the statement was made generally. if u take every comment this personally on a public forum, u r in for some serious shit. the statement was never meant for u and so it confused and perplexed me as to y u wanted to be so involved. as for the "understand football" is concerned, i dint know it would be such a hot button topic with u.

please dont compare what happens in lamps' threads to what is written in this thread. in lamps' thread people actually debate over the good and bad of any situation. in this thread people's blind hate stops them from giving mikel the credit he is due just 10 minutes after the match. the ridicule, the absolute lack of respect to him and some of the posters' blantant posts does not make mikel thread a very suitable place for a decent debate. like ours.

[Kojo 4,676]

That's a joke of a comment, he's been a key player through our most successful time in our history, with the most trophies. So that comment makes no sense.

Now I'm not a real pro mikel or against mikel, I'm in the middle. I think he is just amazing at some things he does, and at others he needs to step up. He's been great at times this season and other games no where near good enough.

I don't think our system fits him at all right now, a 4-3-3 would be better and if mourinho comes in the summer I can see him turning in to the player that Jose always wanted him to be. It's weird tho because he was THE best young attacking midfielder but Jose saw something that made him want to be dm and that affect has stuck to him. IF Jose comes I see him fulfilling his potential as a dm.

He lacks some concentration at some points in ridiculous situations and he is sooo slow but one thing I think he does really well is not stop attacks from happening, but preventing them to. I think he does put himself in spots that clogs/blocks passing lanes or spaces where people would run in to.

In the end I see him as someone that needs to improve as he could be oh so good, but I don't see him being replaced

Great logic that, so just because he's been around when our team was world class that means he is world class, just because of that top comment I'm not even going to bother reading the rest.

[English Freak 456]

That's a joke of a comment, he's been a key player through our most successful time in our history, with the most trophies. So that comment makes no sense.

Now I'm not a real pro mikel or against mikel, I'm in the middle. I think he is just amazing at some things he does, and at others he needs to step up. He's been great at times this season and other games no where near good enough.

I don't think our system fits him at all right now, a 4-3-3 would be better and if mourinho comes in the summer I can see him turning in to the player that Jose always wanted him to be. It's weird tho because he was THE best young attacking midfielder but Jose saw something that made him want to be dm and that affect has stuck to him. IF Jose comes I see him fulfilling his potential as a dm.

He lacks some concentration at some points in ridiculous situations and he is sooo slow but one thing I think he does really well is not stop attacks from happening, but preventing them to. I think he does put himself in spots that clogs/blocks passing lanes or spaces where people would run in to.

In the end I see him as someone that needs to improve as he could be oh so good, but I don't see him being replaced

It would be interesting to see what Jose does with Mikel.

I don't think he'll fulfil his potential and I doubt he'll be able to be the 'driver' in our midfield...he just doesn't seem assertive enough.

BUT with two quality midfielders alongside him in a 4-3-3, he's a useful player to have.

And anyway, how many clubs would actually sign Mikel? We're kinda stuck with him for the foreseeable future..so we might as well try to get the best out of him..

[BlueLyon 9,359]

In a game where opponent completely commands the game (bayern-juve), even someone like Vidal does little to change anything. He was fighting hard (and put some good shots), but his passing was bad and positioning. Could do little to stop bayern attack.

In such games, someone like Mikel is better option If you ask me. He stays back and marks opponents not to pass through. Its question of debate cuz he cant deliver attacking options like Vidal, but in our case we have other players who attack. Still it would be nice to have some version of fighting DM to rotate with Mikel in some games (specialy against weaker sides where Mikel lacks motivation)...

[communicate 2,703]

In a game where opponent completely commands the game (bayern-juve), even someone like Vidal does little to change anything. He was fighting hard (and put some good shots), but his passing was bad and positioning. Could do little to stop bayern attack.

In such games, someone like Mikel is better option If you ask me. He stays back and marks opponents not to pass through. Its question of debate cuz he cant deliver attacking options like Vidal, but in our case we have other players who attack. Still it would be nice to have some version of fighting DM to rotate with Mikel in some games (specialy against weaker sides where Mikel lacks motivation)...

We have such player in Ramires

[DDA 9,689]

Great logic that, so just because he's been around when our team was world class that means he is world class, just because of that top comment I'm not even going to bother reading the rest.

My feelings exactly. I STOPPED reading straight after I had read the dribble that Mikel has been one of our most important players in the most successful period of our history. He is average at best , end of. People only hail him because he looks like he knows what he is doing in comparison to the other players we play in the DM role. Thats because we don't have any DM players so Mikel looks half decent but in all truth the clown can't tackle and is just pathetic when it comes to shielding a player away from goal.

[Miguelito 459]

Great logic that, so just because he's been around when our team was world class that means he is world class, just because of that top comment I'm not even going to bother reading the rest.

That's fine that you don't read the rest, I just stated the fact that he has been an important member of the team in the time we won a lot a trophies disproves that you said if he is an important player in the future we won't win anything. That logic is what doesn't make sense to me

[The Skipper 20,593]

Thats because we don't have any DM players

What's Mikel then?

[DDA 9,689]

What's Mikel then?

I meant to say other than. Mikel isn't good enough. You could say Rami is a DM but he is far more useful to us as an attacking threat. We need to bring in a proper full blooded tackler who can pass.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I meant to say other than. Mikel isn't good enough. You could say Rami is a DM but he is far more useful to us as an attacking threat. We need to bring in a proper full blooded tackler who can pass.

I suggest you look in the 80s and 90s because those types of DMs no longer exist. The game has changed. You can't have Roy Keans in your team any more because first the game is no longer that physical and second because team systems and player movement has completely changed. Nowadays if a defensive player goes to ground and does not get the ball, you're in deep trouble. An example off the top of my head is Newcastle's second goal against us this season when JT went to ground needlessly and we went from relatively having things under control to conceding an easy goal in seconds.

That's why the first thing academies teach kids about defending now is "Don't go to ground. Don't commit yourself to the tackle unless absolutely necessary". There's a quote for Xabi Alonso who's one of the best in the world at what he does where he says tackling is not something you aim to do, but rather something you sometimes have to resort to.

Bottom line is, all the good DMs today are the ones who know how to close down passing angles, tighten spaces and force the error.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

We have such player in Ramires

Yes and Mikel-Rambo is working pretty fine...

[English Freak 456]

In a game where opponent completely commands the game (bayern-juve), even someone like Vidal does little to change anything. He was fighting hard (and put some good shots), but his passing was bad and positioning. Could do little to stop bayern attack.

In such games, someone like Mikel is better option If you ask me. He stays back and marks opponents not to pass through. Its question of debate cuz he cant deliver attacking options like Vidal, but in our case we have other players who attack. Still it would be nice to have some version of fighting DM to rotate with Mikel in some games (specialy against weaker sides where Mikel lacks motivation)...

I think Chalobah could rotate with Mikel initially...and once he understands the Chelsea tactical system, he might be able to become our starting DM.

[DDA 9,689]

I suggest you look in the 80s and 90s because those types of DMs no longer exist. The game has changed. You can't have Roy Keans in your team any more because first the game is no longer that physical and second because team systems and player movement has completely changed. Nowadays if a defensive player goes to ground and does not get the ball, you're in deep trouble. An example off the top of my head is Newcastle's second goal against us this season when JT went to ground needlessly and we went from relatively having things under control to conceding an easy goal in seconds.

That's why the first thing academies teach kids about defending now is "Don't go to ground. Don't commit yourself to the tackle unless absolutely necessary". There's a quote for Xabi Alonso who's one of the best in the world at what he does where he says tackling is not something you aim to do, but rather something you sometimes have to resort to.

Bottom line is, all the good DMs today are the ones who know how to close down passing angles, tighten spaces and force the error.

Ok fair point but you really feel Mikel does this well? I don't, players breeze past him like he is a statue far too often. His passing game is not even that good either. Maybe you can't make full blooded tackles anymore but just look at the goal we conceded against Juve when Mikel gave the ball away and then just half heartedly strolled towards the player with the ball. This kind of feable marking and attempt to win the ball back is seen in Mikels game far too often for my liking. Plus you can tackle without having to slide or go to ground, you jockey then use the x button.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ok fair point but you really feel Mikel does this well? I don't, players breeze past him like he is a statue far too often. His passing game is not even that good either. Maybe you can't make full blooded tackles anymore but just look at the goal we conceded against Juve when Mikel gave the ball away and then just half heartedly strolled towards the player with the ball. This kind of feable marking and attempt to win the ball back is seen in Mikels game far too often for my liking. Plus you can tackle without having to slide or go to ground, you jockey then use the x button.

He's a bit slow to react at times, and his mobility off the ball is not the best, I'll be the first to admit that. But I do think he defends well enough because he makes up for that with his physical abilities, tactical awareness and more importantly discipline. He's not a ball winning DM (this was an absurd concept back in the 90s) but what he does is close passing angles, stays on his feet to force the error. Take the last game vs United for instance, there were three incidents in the first half when Cole was out of position and Nani had the ball running down the right flank on the counter. Mikel just stayed with him and closed all passing angles. Nani ended giving it back to our defense twice and running it out of play in the other. There were plenty of other incidents, but those just stuck out.

He makes mistakes? Of course he makes mistakes. But I don't think they're as often as you make them out to be. The problem is, fans, all football fans, even pundits, judge players on individual incidents: goals, assists, dribbles..etc or on the other hand OGs, mistakes that lead to goals, bad passes..etc and Mikel doesn't do any of those. His biggest assets are his incredible consistency in his passing, his ball retention skills, and his discipline to sit deep and protect that back four all game long. Those don't show in individual incidents or in individual matches for that matter but are invaluable for the team because the name of the modern game, especially for a top team like Chelsea is "keep possession".

As for his passing game being "not even that good", I know that the people who don't like Mikel tend to hate stats, but you just don't have the most passes in the league with the highest accuracy over the past four seasons by accident, you have to be an incredible passer. And again, in Mikel's case, it's not the 50ft pass, but the ability to make that 10-20ft pass 9 times out of ten in every single game. No one else currently in the league is capable of that.

[communicate 2,703]

He's a bit slow to react at times, and his mobility off the ball is not the best, I'll be the first to admit that. But I do think he defends well enough because he makes up for that with his physical abilities, tactical awareness and more importantly discipline. He's not a ball winning DM (this was an absurd concept back in the 90s) but what he does is close passing angles, stays on his feet to force the error. Take the last game vs United for instance, there were three incidents in the first half when Cole was out of position and Nani had the ball running down the right flank on the counter. Mikel just stayed with him and close all passing angles. Nani ended giving it back to our defense twice and running it out of play in the other. There plenty of other incidents, but those just stuck out.

He makes mistakes? Of course he makes mistakes. But I don't think they're as often as you make them out to be. The problem is, fans, all football fans, even pundits, judge players on individual incidents: goals, assists, dribbles..etc or on the other hand OGs, mistakes that lead to goals, bad passes..etc and Mikel doesn't any of those. His biggest assets are his incredible consistency in his passing, his ball retention skills, and his discipline to sit deep and protect that back four all game long. Those don't show in individual incidents or in individual matches for that matter but are invaluable for the team because the name of the modern game, especially for a top team like Chelsea is "keep possession".

As for his passing game being "not even that good", I know that the people who don't like Mikel tend to hate stats, but you just don't have the most passes in the league with the highest accuracy over the past four seasons by accident, you have to be an incredible passer. And again, in Mikel's case, it's not the 50ft pass, but the ability to make that 10-20ft pass 9 times out of ten in every single game. No one else in the league is capable of that.

Good post' I think the only thing that is missing in Mikel game is his passing range. His passing for Nigeria is wonderful but for us he tends to play more conservative pass. I don't want him to start playing crazy long ball but good lo g ball ala carrick/Alonso is what we need