Timo Werner

[Dan Lee 47]

On 10/03/2021 at 07:38, Azul said:

When people mention the fact that Pulisic has to prove himself in the limited game time he has, it really shows a lack of IQ. Werner hasn't shown enough with the abundance of game time he's had, so why not criticise him but criticise Pulisic even though he comes off the bench and isn't even match fit? It's just mindboggling to be honest.

Totally agree with you. How many games Werner has proved that he could not score and he is still playing. Giround, Puli, etc. should wait in the line. 

[R2D2 368]

Still think he will turn good next season with a proper striker next to him.

[NikkiCFC 7,602]

I noticed both times when we played with 4 at the back (Barnsley second half and Leeds before Timo and James came in) was when Werner was not on the pitch.

Makes sense. With 3 at the back he can play his natural position SS or whatever he plays and wing backs cover the flanks. With 4231 or 433 he would have to play winger or number 9.

So I think he is the big reason why we play with 3 ATB. This is also going to be a problem in the future. I do not expect us to play 442 like RBL because that is so rare formation especially for top teams.

[Jase 43,479]

56 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I noticed both times when we played with 4 at the back (Barnsley second half and Leeds before Timo and James came in) was when Werner was not on the pitch.

Makes sense. With 3 at the back he can play his natural position SS or whatever he plays and wing backs cover the flanks. With 4231 or 433 he would have to play winger or number 9.

So I think he is the big reason why we play with 3 ATB. This is also going to be a problem in the future. I do not expect us to play 442 like RBL because that is so rare formation especially for top teams.

If Werner is the big reason we play the back 3, then why did we play that system against Wolves and Man United? He didn't play in the former game while he only came on in the last 10 minutes or so in the latter game.

We also started with a back 3 against Barnsley and we changed to a back 4 in the second half due to tactical reasons, as Tuchel mentioned after the game. Barnsley were playing their own back 3 system and 4-3-3 - the system we used in that half - is a common answer to dealing with a back 4, at least on paper anyway. And against Leeds, it really was a hybrid back 3/4 system and we only changed to the rigid back 3 system late on when we started losing the plot in the second half.

Not sure if he's played in a back 4 with Germany before (maybe Magic Lamps or killer can shed some light on this) but he's played in a back 4 at Leipzig and considering Klopp and reportedly Guardiola wanted him, you would think he can fit in a back 4 anyway, especially when those 2 managers don't play with 2 strikers. He doesn't have to operate like a winger, but like an inside forward. 

Also let's face it, for better or for worse, we have a squad filled with some players that are suited to a back 3 and some better suited to a back 4. The current squad also have defensive issues in midfield and players who aren't very good when it comes to pressing. No surprise to see Tuchel went pragmatic and prioritized defensive solidity first for now from the get-go.

And didn't you previously insist that Tuchel will stick with the back 4? 

[NikkiCFC 7,602]

16 hours ago, Jason said:

And didn't you previously insist that Tuchel will stick with the back 4? 

You mean back 3? 

I'm just pointing out. 

Time will tell but this system is definitely playing to his strengths. And some other players. And it's logical thing to do imo. 

 

 

[Jase 43,479]

56 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

You mean back 3? 

I'm just pointing out. 

Time will tell but this system is definitely playing to his strengths. And some other players. And it's logical thing to do imo. 

And I disagree with it, especially the part where you said he is the big reason why we are playing the back 3 at the moment. Hence, my counter points above. Moreover, he is not a big, successful or influential player at this point to have an entire system centered around him. Heck, he's not even a Messi or Ronaldo type freak to "force" a manager to play a certain system/way to suit him. 

[ZAPHOD2319 3,897]

It seems like some rag I have never read, Football Insider, is floating this idea that we are going to trade Werner for Haaland with some cash. Now the other rags are all over it. It seems like a silly idea..... would be great if there was some truth to it.

[Jase 43,479]

9 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

It seems like some rag I have never read, Football Insider, is floating this idea that we are going to trade Werner for Haaland with some cash. Now the other rags are all over it. It seems like a silly idea..... would be great if there was some truth to it.

As you alluded to, the source is rubbish. Can't see the club giving up on Werner after just one season for various reasons (he's not been a complete flop FFS!) and even if there's some truth to it, you still need a lot of other circumstances to happen for the move to even be a possibility.

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

If there was any truth to that rumor I'd say get it done 😂

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

If there was any truth to that rumor I'd say get it done 😂

[Jase 43,479]

Tuchel was asked about whether Werner is happy because of the (silly) rumors floating about...

For Timo, he has no reason now not to be frustrated because he did an amazing match against Liverpool then he had a good match against Everton with a lot of chances to score. He did not score, OK, this sticks in a situation like this but what does it help? The clear advice from us is don't focus on the result, get your decision making right and technique right and the ball will do the rest.

Basically asked Werner to trust the process. Even told the journalist who asked the question to read a book instead of the rumors.

[Special Juan 27,105]

For me Werner is not a problem, yes his finishing has to improve but he's working hard and tries like fuck every game.

[MoroccanBlue 5,209]

If I were Werner I'd try and man the fuck up and start taking the penalties. Don't understand how he expects to get out of the slump when he doesn't regularly see his end product hit he back of the net. At the very least try and do it with penalties. His record is fairly good too. 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Vesper 27,379]

Rudiger insists Timo Werner is not fastest player at Chelsea

https://www.thechelseachronicle.com/club-news/rudiger-insists-timo-werner-is-not-fastest-player-at-Chelsea/

Antonio Rudiger said Timo Werner has always been quick since he was young but insisted his Germany teammate is not the fastest at Chelsea.

“My speciality is that I am really fast” — that was the one of the first things Werner said in his first interview with Chelsea following his summer move from Leipzig.

He’s clearly not all talk — time and time again, his pace has made the difference for Chelsea during games.

Hakim Ziyech’s opening goal in the 2-0 win over Atletico Madrid a few days ago, for example, was made possible by his outpacing Atleti defenders.

Rudiger said Werner was already outstanding because of his pace when they were together at Stuttgart.

Asked whether he knew that Werner would make it at the top level, the centre-back told Soccer AM: “Yes, because his speed and eagerness to score goals, [these] come to him naturally.

“When he came up the first time [at Stuttgart], he was 16 or 17, and in training, he was so fast, so quick, and his finishing was very good at that level.

“It was just a matter of time for him to breakthrough [at highest level].”

Unsurprisingly, based on FIFA21 rating, Werner is the fastest at Chelsea.

But Rudiger still thinks that he could beat Werner over longer distances.

“Honestly, something tells me that Fik [Tomori] and I are quicker [than Werner],” he explained.

“Maybe not for the first 10 metres, but if we go, I would say it’s between me and Fik.”

Edited March 20, 2021 by Vesper

[Supermonkey 38]

For a fast player he's had plenty of through balls against high lines but seems to take the ball wide rather than trying to get across the defender 

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Supermonkey said:

For a fast player he's had plenty of through balls against high lines but seems to take the ball wide rather than trying to get across the defender 

As if the through balls have been consistently played through the central areas. 

[OneMoSalah 8,616]

8 hours ago, Supermonkey said:

For a fast player he's had plenty of through balls against high lines but seems to take the ball wide rather than trying to get across the defender 

Personally, for me, having watched a few highlight reels of games with Tuchel, Timo has found himself in good positions sometimes in the channel but he doesn’t always seem to know how to position his body or take the right touch in which it takes the ball across defenders/be in a position where he can set himself to shoot better. 

A good example of what I am talking about is Morata’s first goal v Stoke in our 4-0 win with Conte. He takes what would be seen as a more difficult touch from Azpi’s ball in behind as opposed to controlling it with his left foot which means he has bought himself extra time to set himself and shoot on his best side. If he lets it slide across to his left and he controls it he doesn’t have as much time to set himself and gives the defender a better opportunity to get back. 

8 hours ago, Jason said:

As if the through balls have been consistently played through the central areas. 

Jason, what is the point here? Lets be real, he is not going to get them put on a plate to the point where he doesn’t have to do anything bar tap them in every week, is he? No striker is going to consistently get every through ball played only from central areas over the course of a season. Thats why attackers have the hardest positions in football, because some days you get good service some days you don’t but at the end of the day their job is for them to score/assist/affect the game in a positive manner. 

He's had a collection of moments where he’s ended up in some okay positions but just hasn’t been making the most of them for various reasons and as mentioned above, its probably something that isn’t necessarily a huge issue in terms of him not being a good player but its also something that is frustrating because we know he is a good player and has good pedigree. Even the times the ball gets trapped under his feet etc, which happens a lot, these aren’t necessarily complex things in the grand scale of it, its more the basics. This may also stem from his confidence in this period though which I wouldn’t be surprised with but some of it undoubtedly also comes from his attributes as a footballer.

Sometimes he might only end up getting one or two half chances in a game. Sometimes he will get five or six. Either way, he has to become more efficient in every aspect, from taking the ball/controlling it to setting himself to shoot. Its getting to the point where the rest of the team are playing at a high level and making half chances so sooner or later he has to put them away or we will look for other solutions. Which is why I think Havertz as a false 9 is going to be more of a reoccurring theme towards the end of the season.

The luxury he has right now is that perhaps Pulisic hasn’t really arrived this season due to a reoccurrence of injuries which has hampered him playing 4 or 5 weeks from the beginning in a row to get some match rhythm but he has to be wary because Hudson Odoi is more than capable of being a prominent feature in that front 3. Mount will also continue to be prominent.