Timo Werner

[killer1257 3,282]

I don't know why people keep on talking like pacey players struggle in the Premier League because there is not much space to use their pace and all that. The likes of Man City, Liverpool all have pacey players but that never stops them from being effective in the league, do they? 

Mane, Salah, Mahrez, Aguero, Sterling, Rash, Martial and Greenwood for instance all have world class technique too, which Werner does not have. He is just very fast and very good shooting skills, while the other players have insane dribbling skills and their first touch is on point. Technique is something Werner struggles with.

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[kellzfresh 7,229]

7 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Mane, Salah, Mahrez, Aguero, Sterling, Rash, Martial and Greenwood for instance all have world class technique too, which Werner does not have. He is just very fast and very good shooting skills, while the other players have insane dribbling skills and their first touch is on point. Technique is something Werner struggles with.

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Vardy too is like Werner but he is the premier league's top scorer. If Werner provided that performance he has done well

[Stats 7,053]

28 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Mane, Salah, Mahrez, Aguero, Sterling, Rash, Martial and Greenwood for instance all have world class technique too, which Werner does not have. He is just very fast and very good shooting skills, while the other players have insane dribbling skills and their first touch is on point. Technique is something Werner struggles with.

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Werner's technique and dribbling is underrated. He is not just a pace merchant. Many of his goals this season have been from dribbling/cutting inside from the LW and letting the ball rip in the net. Some of his finishing has been fantastic. 

[Jase 43,479]

24 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Mane, Salah, Mahrez, Aguero, Sterling, Rash, Martial and Greenwood for instance all have world class technique too, which Werner does not have. He is just very fast and very good shooting skills, while the other players have insane dribbling skills and their first touch is on point. Technique is something Werner struggles with.

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You keep making it sound like Werner has the worst technique around when it's not even close. As Stats mentioned above, his technique is underrated. 

But for argument sake, let's just say his technique isn't very good but why then he can't improve on it? 

Those players you mentioned weren't exactly born technically gifted. They got better and improved over time. It's also easy to forget that Werner is still only 24 years old and has been improving year in, year out. There's no reason why he can't turn his weaknesses to strengths or make those weaknesses become irrelevant altogether as long as he stays on that trajectory.

And another point, we had someone like Costa who was technically average but no one seemed to mind that because he was banging in the goals. 

[communicate 2,703]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

You keep making it sound like Werner has the worst technique around when it's not even close. As Stats mentioned above, his technique is underrated. 

But for argument sake, let's just say his technique isn't very good but why then he can't improve on it? 

Those players you mentioned weren't exactly born technically gifted. They got better and improved over time. It's also easy to forget that Werner is still only 24 years old and has been improving year in, year out. There's no reason why he can't turn his weaknesses to strengths or make those weaknesses become irrelevant altogether as long as he stays on that trajectory.

And another point, we had someone like Costa who was technically average but no one seemed to mind that because he was banging in the goals. 

Vardy is maybe a better comparison,  costa was completely different animal. Costa was a physical animal, he love to "fight" sometime literally fight opp CB

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, communicate said:

Vardy is maybe a better comparison,  costa was completely different animal. Costa was a physical animal, he love to "fight" sometime literally fight opp CB

Yes but the point here is about pace and technique. Costa doesn't have those but nobody bothered about that, certainly the latter, because he was scoring the goals. Costa found other ways to let his qualities shine.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The most important is mentality.

Morata had good technique, but his mentality was potatoes. 

If Werner can cope with pressure, be creative, adapt and fight like its the last day, he will be fine. If he pussies out, he will be a flop. 

[communicate 2,703]

5 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

The most important is mentality.

Morata had good technique, but his mentality was potatoes. 

If Werner can cope with pressure, be creative, adapt and fight like its the last day, he will be fine. If he pussies out, he will be a flop. 

You are right but it is very difficult to fight if he doesn't have the physical attributes though. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

3 minutes ago, communicate said:

You are right but it is very difficult to fight if he doesn't have the physical attributes though. 

Well yes having more of these attributes makes you a pro footballer. Strength, speed, stamina, technique...if he didnt have any he wouldnt be a good striker at all. He already has speed; stamina and strength can be achieved eventualy if he decides to improve. 

Salah got way better in this compared to his Chelsea days for example. 

But it all falls down to mentality. Does he want to push forward or is he like nah Im fine...

If you look at Goretzka in bayern, he is almost twice the size now because he trained during the corona break. Christensen is still a weak boy despite he could take advantage and train. Its all about getting better. He is weak clearly and yet doesnt do anything about it. Now dont go Micah Richards levels, thats too much, but improvement can be done always. 

[DDA 9,690]

45 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

The most important is mentality.

Morata had good technique, but his mentality was potatoes. 

If Werner can cope with pressure, be creative, adapt and fight like its the last day, he will be fine. If he pussies out, he will be a flop. 

I'm sorry but Morata does not have good technique. He has spanners for feet and the footballing brain of a construction site labourer.

[Vytis33 1,144]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

 

Morata had good technique, but his mentality was potatoes. 

 

Potatoes

[communicate 2,703]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Well yes having more of these attributes makes you a pro footballer. Strength, speed, stamina, technique...if he didnt have any he wouldnt be a good striker at all. He already has speed; stamina and strength can be achieved eventualy if he decides to improve. 

Salah got way better in this compared to his Chelsea days for example. 

But it all falls down to mentality. Does he want to push forward or is he like nah Im fine...

If you look at Goretzka in bayern, he is almost twice the size now because he trained during the corona break. Christensen is still a weak boy despite he could take advantage and train. Its all about getting better. He is weak clearly and yet doesnt do anything about it. Now dont go Micah Richards levels, thats too much, but improvement can be done always. 

But that is not true,some player are just stronger. Take puli for example. Puli can't handle any physical battle, he will lose 90% of physical battle. 

That is one of the reason he struggle big time early. Once he is moved to the left, he play quite high and he does not have to face many physical battle, he flourish. 

 

[communicate 2,703]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Yes but the point here is about pace and technique. Costa doesn't have those but nobody bothered about that, certainly the latter, because he was scoring the goals. Costa found other ways to let his qualities shine.

You are right technique is just one component of footballer. I only watched two of Werner games so maybe I am not the best person to judge. But in both games he barely touch the ball and get involved in build up. He did look average on the ball but the sample size is very2 small. 

If he turn out to be just a speedster for now, no problem, we can use him against high line and pressure heavy team.

One of the problem with our team is our lack of deep passer ala cesc that can spot runner from deep. 

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

26 minutes ago, communicate said:

You are right technique is just one component of footballer. I only watched two of Werner games so maybe I am not the best person to judge. But in both games he barely touch the ball and get involved in build up. He did look average on the ball but the sample size is very2 small. 

If he turn out to be just a speedster for now, no problem, we can use him against high line and pressure heavy team.

One of the problem with our team is our lack of deep passer ala cesc that can spot runner from deep. 

Look at Aguero at City. Arguably one of the best strikers in PL history and he is hardly hugely involved in the build up in the same way some CFs are/were. Is it a problem? Not really because he gives you 20 league goals a season. Fair enough his all round game is good and he can do other things but if your good at scoring goals leave the fannying about trying to be a midfielder getting assists, key passes etc to the guys behind you and do the job, do what CFs do, get the ball, give it to your team mates and just be in positions to stick the ball in the back of net regularly. Ok if your not getting the rub of the green, do these things and yes all the top CFs are more than just goal scorers but still, our problem was conversion for a lot of the season, Werners ability to finish is gonna be a huge plus. Thats why he has to play through the middle for me. He has the pace to remain on the shoulder and get in behind teams. He also offers huge counter attack potential too with his pace. The back to goal stuff isn’t always that important for me because other teams have shown you dont always need that to win trophies if the conditions in your team are right and the players fit the style. Plus we have Abraham and Giroud to swap it up, we have the variations.

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Look at Aguero at City. Arguably one of the best strikers in PL history and he is hardly hugely involved in the build up in the same way some CFs are/were. Is it a problem? Not really because he gives you 20 league goals a season. Fair enough his all round game is good and he can do other things but if your good at scoring goals leave the fannying about trying to be a midfielder getting assists, key passes etc to the guys behind you and do the job, do what CFs do, get the ball, give it to your team mates and just be in positions to stick the ball in the back of net regularly. Ok if your not getting the rub of the green, do these things and yes all the top CFs are more than just goal scorers but still, our problem was conversion for a lot of the season, Werners ability to finish is gonna be a huge plus. Thats why he has to play through the middle for me. He has the pace to remain on the shoulder and get in behind teams. He also offers huge counter attack potential too with his pace. The back to goal stuff isn’t always that important for me because other teams have shown you dont always need that to win trophies if the conditions in your team are right and the players fit the style. Plus we have Abraham and Giroud to swap it up, we have the variations.

Aguero used to barely get involved with the build up. It is one of the reason pep preferred Jesus in the beginning. But he has improved in that area. 

Scoring goal as center forward is not enough anymore. I think that is clear as more and more goal scoring come from wide forward this days. But you can certainly ask your cf to play as poacher but you put more burden on your teammate to bring the ball forward. 

I don't think chance conversion is our biggest problem. We scored 3rd most goals last season. We can certainly improve in that area but If we want to reach pool or city level in term of goalscoring, we need our player to reach wc level. That include chance creation and conversion.

The bigger concern is preventing other team from scoring. That is not just defending btw.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

4 hours ago, communicate said:

But that is not true,some player are just stronger. Take puli for example. Puli can't handle any physical battle, he will lose 90% of physical battle. 

That is one of the reason he struggle big time early. Once he is moved to the left, he play quite high and he does not have to face many physical battle, he flourish. 

 

A fullback can also be a bit lightweight. But a DM, striker or CB must be strong or either very gritty like Aguero (who is also strong, not the best example but yeah). Find me a small striker who isnt strong enough that is sucessful in PL. 

A winger or fullback, maybe even attacking mid can be a bit of lightweight and still pull the tricks. 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

At least two German teams in the semifinals proves hes playing in a much tougher league than people think 

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

At least two German teams in the semifinals proves hes playing in a much tougher league than people think 

RB Leipzig are the only side Bayern have not beaten this season.