Timo Werner

[Milan 17,835]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

Hardly a secret that I was over the moon when we signed Werner but really, what was the point of us even signing him when we aren't even utilizing his strengths? Did we buy him only because of his goalscoring numbers at Leipzig? 

Don't get me wrong, am not making excuses for some of the basics that he couldn't do right of late but it's clear as hell that he isn't a winger and yet, he gets put out there to do winger things. Moreover, he did miss a few bad chances in the 2-3 games after the last international break but more recently, we have barely even created any chances for him. So really, what's the point of him then? Why didn't we just go buy an out-and-out winger? 

Hey @Hutcho A question for you 

[killer1257 3,282]

The problem is that as long as Giroud keeps scoring goals, I don't see Werner benching Giroud any time soon and he will then most likely play left winger.
Also, if Lampard decides to bench Giroud again for some time, he will leave the club because he always is in contact with french media to make interviews about his future

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

The problem is that as long as Giroud keeps scoring goals, I don't see Werner benching Giroud any time soon and he will then most likely play left winger.
Also, if Lampard decides to bench Giroud again for some time, he will leave the club because he always is in contact with french media to make interviews about his future

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

Doesn't this then expose Lampard's lack of guts? Fair enough Giroud has scored goals of late but we've gone from Lampard barely using him at all to suddenly using him more frequently, after he threatened to leave in January. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Doesn't this then expose Lampard's lack of guts? Fair enough Giroud has scored goals of late but we've gone from Lampard barely using him at all to suddenly using him more frequently, after he threatened to leave in January. 

I think Werner will make most sense as a CF when ziyech is back into the team. Right now, Girouds aerial threat is a very important weapon to score goals and I would still play Giroud for the time.

It is a big headache to be honest. Giroud is right now the only reliable goal scorer, but lacks pace for our style of play. I would play Giroud until Ziyech is back and then switch Werner into CF position because ziyech plays those through balls to fast players like pulisic or Werner

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I think Werner will make most sense as a CF when ziyech is back into the team. Right now, Girouds aerial threat is a very important weapon to score goals and I would still play Giroud for the time.

It is a big headache to be honest. Giroud is right now the only reliable goal scorer, but lacks pace for our style of play. I would play Giroud until Ziyech is back and then switch Werner into CF position because ziyech plays those through balls to fast players like pulisic or Werner

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

 

Will that happen? We had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at some point, even when Pulisic was out, and yet Werner was constantly being used out wide. The one time he played as the main striker was against Southampton and okay, while that game may have suited his strengths but that was really the only time we did that and it has not been seen since. Moreover, Werner is rather similar to Vardy in their game style and if Leicester can make it work with Vardy upfront, then why can't we?

The crossing thing is also another pathetic one. We only ever put high crosses into the box for Giroud/Abraham to score and for Werner/Pulisic etc to somehow win in the air. Where's the variation in the crosses? We've become so predictable with the type of crosses we put in.

[Superblue 6,331]

55 minutes ago, Jason said:

Pulisic aside, am pretty sure we had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at one point but Lampard didn't even bother to try it out.

During that period though we were playing well and winning games. Tammy looked like he was giving a bit of balance to the team as a focal point for Werner to play off. I think the longer term plan for Lampard was to always play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech but I can understand a few weeks ago that Lampard stuck with what was working at the time.

As players return I think long term Werner should and will play centrally, because I don't think Tammy or Giroud are good enough to be the first choice, they're both squad players. Hopefully we can get players back as soon as possible to allow us to do this.

[killer1257 3,282]

Will that happen? We had CHO and Ziyech available at the same time at some point, even when Pulisic was out, and yet Werner was constantly being used out wide. The one time he played as the main striker was against Southampton and okay, while that game may have suited his strengths but that was really the only time we did that and it has not been seen since. Moreover, Werner is rather similar to Vardy in their game style and if Leicester make it work with Vardy upfront, then why can't we?
The crossing thing is also another pathetic one. We only ever put high crosses into the box for Giroud/Abraham to score and for Werner/Pulisic etc to somehow win in the air. Where's the variation in the crosses? We've become so predictable with the type of crosses we put in.

To be fair, I think only RJ and Ziyech are able to play different type of crosses. All the others don't have enough quality on the ball to play different crosses.

Werner had 4 scorer in three matches as a CF. His movement is much better as a CF or second striker than left winger.

We will see what Lampard does when Ziyech is fit again, but I expect him to put Werner CF again and Pulisic and Ziyech as the wingers of the team. Lampard does not trust CHO that much, especially at the beginning of the season.


Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

During that period though we were playing well and winning games. Tammy looked like he was giving a bit of balance to the team as a focal point for Werner to play off. I think the longer term plan for Lampard was to always play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech but I can understand a few weeks ago that Lampard stuck with what was working at the time.

As players return I think long term Werner should and will play centrally, because I don't think Tammy or Giroud are good enough to be the first choice, they're both squad players. Hopefully we can get players back as soon as possible to allow us to do this.

Fair...but now that things aren't working so well, what are the changes? 

[Superblue 6,331]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Fair...but now that things aren't working so well, what are the changes? 

We're pretty hamstrung at the moment with the options available to play a 4-3-3. I suppose the only other option is Pulisic left, Havertz right and Werner central. But Havertz is well off the pace himself at the moment and we can't just flog Pulisic back to another injury.

The only other option I can think of to 'change' it up which may work with the players we have is 3-5-2, pushing Chilwell and James into wing back roles (they are our sole wide options anyway at present), bring Azpi into the back line and play Werner up top with Giroud or Tammy or if Lampard wants to try it, play Havertz in that position and allow him a free role to drift around.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The only other option I can think of to 'change' it up which may work with the players we have is 3-5-2, pushing Chilwell and James into wing back roles (they are our sole wide options anyway at present), bring Azpi into the back line and play Werner up top with Giroud or Tammy or if Lampard wants to try it, play Havertz in that position and allow him a free role to drift around.

Precisely what I and I think most others have been thinking. And not to mention, Wolves were the perfect opponent today to go with the back 3 given how well we did against them last season. But nope, Lampard rather fit square pegs in round hole instead. 

[Superblue 6,331]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Precisely what I and I think most others have been thinking. And not to mention, Wolves were the perfect opponent today to go with the back 3 given how well we did against them last season. But nope, Lampard rather fit square pegs in round hole instead. 

I wouldn't go that far because with Pulisic back we did have the players to still play a 4-3-3 and having had a good run with it i think it would have been hasty to change off the back of one bad result. Its hardly like these performances and results have looked like coming.

A change during the game perhaps should have been made in the second half when we were struggling. Unless Ziyech and CHO are miraculously fit for West Ham though Frank needs to have a long think how to approach that game.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I wouldn't go that far because with Pulisic back we did have the players to still play a 4-3-3 and having had a good run with it i think it would have been hasty to change off the back of one bad result. Its hardly like these performances and results have looked like coming.

A change during the game perhaps should have been made in the second half when we were struggling. Unless Ziyech and CHO are miraculously fit for West Ham though Frank needs to have a long think how to approach that game.

It still feels like square pegs in round even with Pulisic available.

Werner is not a winger and he looks lost out wide, whether on the LW or RW. Pulisic can only really operate effectively on the LW. That's already a problem. All good when everyone is functioning properly but it looks like we've hit a wall and maybe opponents have already figured us out.

And the reason why I also said today was the perfect time to change to a back 3 is because we have not beaten Nuno's Wolves with a back 4 (D1 L2) but have beaten them with a back 3 (W2).

[Superblue 6,331]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

It still feels like square pegs in round even with Pulisic available.

Werner is not a winger and he looks lost out wide, whether on the LW or RW. Pulisic can only really operate effectively on the LW. That's already a problem. All good when everyone is functioning properly but it looks like we've hit a wall and maybe opponents have already figured us out.

And the reason why I also said today was the perfect time to change to a back 3 is because we have not beaten Nuno's Wolves with a back 4 (D1 L2) but have beaten them with a back 3 (W2).

Understand the reasons. The other problem though with it is Pulisic becomes the square pegs unless we play 3-4-3 then we're back to werner or havertz wide again.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Superblue_1986 said:

Understand the reasons. The other problem though with it is Pulisic becomes the square pegs unless we play 3-4-3 then we're back to werner or havertz wide again.

Nothing wrong with 3-4-3, no? We played it last season, Pulisic played there a few times and pretty sure Werner also played in the 3-4-3 (not just 3-5-2) at Leipzig. 

[Superblue 6,331]

26 minutes ago, Jason said:

Nothing wrong with 3-4-3, no? We played it last season, Pulisic played there a few times and pretty sure Werner also played in the 3-4-3 (not just 3-5-2) at Leipzig. 

But the issue is the same as 4-3-3 it involves one playing on the right and Werner not central.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

But the issue is the same as 4-3-3 it involves one playing on the right and Werner not central.

But there is less emphasis on those players either side of the central striker to provide the width and in turn, they can operate closer with that striker. 

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

I know it seems unrealistic but I would like to see us play Werner and Giroud upfront together. Be it in a 352 or 442. I think Werner is struggling out wide but right now we have most of our wingers out but lots of CMs so I dont think 352 would be a huge risk. It would let him play closer to goal and be able to run in behind more. Probably wont happen. But hey.

[Jase 43,479]