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11. Timo Werner


Jas
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9 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

This directness and off the ball movement is why he starts over superior talents like Pulisic.

Just going back to this, not sure why are people making it Pulisic v Werner when they don't really play the same position of late. Tuchel has been using Werner more as a ST recently and it was only last week that Pulisic was starting games regularly and some of them with Werner in the starting XI too. 

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

A bit of class by RB Leipzig by posting the 'one step beyond' and now saying "Look after him for us, we will be rooting for Frank's young guns next season" Classy as fuck

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14 minutes ago, Jas said:

Just going back to this, not sure why are people making it Pulisic v Werner when they don't really play the same position of late. Tuchel has been using Werner more as a ST recently and it was only last week that Pulisic was starting games regularly and some of them with Werner in the starting XI too. 

I tought we either play Havertz as false 9 and Werner on the left attacking position just behind which is also Pulisic's best position or we play basically 3-5-2 with Mount dropping back into midfield, then we have 2 strikers and again Puli would also play in this position. it is not that we change formations when Pulisic comes on, so yeah he does compete with either werner or mount when we play with Havertz as false 9.

 

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9 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

They are quite different aren’t they. William liked the ball at his feet and his strength was carrying it through midfield with mazy runs. Werner uses his straight line speed to carry it from midfield to attack and play the final ball. 
willian is a tragic case tho. He has the speed and technical  talent of prime hazard but not the intelligence. Werner might have the intelligence and speed but his feet are a bit too clumsy and his head is not always in the right place. Luckily it was today. 

How do you define intelligence regarding Werner? Werner makes a lot of bad passes just like Willian used to do. Maybe you mean intelligent runs. 

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Just now, killer1257 said:

How do you define intelligence regarding Werner? Werner makes a lot of bad passes just like Willian used to do. Maybe you mean intelligent runs. 

But to make the right runs, you need some footballing intelligence don't you? Willian on the other hand had usually terrible off the ball movement.

I think Werner is about ok with the passes he attempts. But they are not always perfectly exectued like the one vs Fulham or the backheel to Mount yesterday. That is because his technique is lacking so he telegraphs some of his passes.

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1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

But to make the right runs, you need some footballing intelligence don't you? Willian on the other hand had usually terrible off the ball movement.

I think Werner is about ok with the passes he attempts. But they are not always perfectly exectued like the one vs Fulham or the backheel to Mount yesterday. That is because his technique is lacking so he telegraphs some of his passes.

Yes, you need some football IQ, but I think it is his acceleration that makes him troublesome for defenders to deal with. When Werner starts sprinting, it is hard for defenders to deal with him. That is why defenders like to be close to him because they can either get the ball before him or speculate that he makes a bad first touch. If it is a through ball, it will be tough for them either way. 

Werner is one of the greatest ever Bundesliga players, if you just judge him by the stats. If werner was slower, I don't think he would be here at Chelsea. You can make good runs, but if you are as slow as Giroud, there is no point. 

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12 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

I tought we either play Havertz as false 9 and Werner on the left attacking position just behind which is also Pulisic's best position or we play basically 3-5-2 with Mount dropping back into midfield, then we have 2 strikers and again Puli would also play in this position. it is not that we change formations when Pulisic comes on, so yeah he does compete with either werner or mount when we play with Havertz as false 9.

You could argue that it's Pulisic or Havertz as well. At West Ham recently, the front 3 was Pulisic, Werner and Mount and then at Madrid, it was a front 2 of Pulisic and Werner. And the debate going into yesterday's second leg was either Havertz or Werner rather than Werner or Pulisic. 

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Another assist and 2 offside goals to his tally 😄

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This man has become very important to us already if you ask me, his constant runs make the defenders shit themselves, always have to be aware. He will be a weapon next season.

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Yes, his pace and movement is now consistently getting him into good, dangerous positions.

Ian Wright unfairly said he was lazy for repeatedly being caught offside. I think its more a case of a lack of concentration because we know Timo is anything but lazy. These offsides must be driving TT nuts and i'm sure this is an area they'll work hard on next pre season. 

Timo will never have the first touch of the worlds elite strikers, but he has enough qualities needed to provide us with a good amount of goals and assists.

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hace 17 minutos, chippy dijo:

Yes, his pace and movement is now consistently getting him into good, dangerous positions.

Ian Wright unfairly said he was lazy for repeatedly being caught offside. I think its more a case of a lack of concentration because we know Timo is anything but lazy. These offsides must be driving TT nuts and i'm sure this is an area they'll work hard on next pre season. 

Timo will never have the first touch of the worlds elite strikers, but he has enough qualities needed to provide us with a good amount of goals and assists.

It is lazy to be caught offside continuously when you have his speed tbf. As it was for Morata. 

He is improving against bigger teams though but the offside thing is frustrating as it cost us another goal v City as did Callum again afterwards also not seeing the line and adjusting his run with his pace. Particularly considering Dias and Laporte whilst arent slow aren’t exactly Usain Bolt. 

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His big chance misses are frustrating as hell but nah can't lie, starting to love the little guy. His workrate is 👌

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1 hour ago, chippy said:

Yes, his pace and movement is now consistently getting him into good, dangerous positions.

Ian Wright unfairly said he was lazy for repeatedly being caught offside. I think its more a case of a lack of concentration because we know Timo is anything but lazy. These offsides must be driving TT nuts and i'm sure this is an area they'll work hard on next pre season. 

Timo will never have the first touch of the worlds elite strikers, but he has enough qualities needed to provide us with a good amount of goals and assists.

 

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

It is lazy to be caught offside continuously when you have his speed tbf. As it was for Morata. 

He is improving against bigger teams though but the offside thing is frustrating as it cost us another goal v City as did Callum again afterwards also not seeing the line and adjusting his run with his pace. Particularly considering Dias and Laporte whilst arent slow aren’t exactly Usain Bolt. 

Hasn't this only been a thing yesterday? Or perhaps the last 2 games against City? Given their good defensive record, City are hardly rubbish at playing the offside trap and while I agree Werner should be timing his runs better, tiredness could have played a part in him being offside yesterday.

Am sure Tuchel would have a word with him and work on it before we face City again. If you want to look at the positive, at least it looks like he remembers how to finish chances again! Now just needs to time those runs better...

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hace 27 minutos, Jas dijo:

 

Hasn't this only been a thing yesterday? Or perhaps the last 2 games against City? Given their good defensive record, City are hardly rubbish at playing the offside trap and while I agree Werner should be timing his runs better, tiredness could have played a part in him being offside yesterday.

Am sure Tuchel would have a word with him and work on it before we face City again. If you want to look at the positive, at least it looks like he remembers how to finish chances again! Now just needs to time those runs better...

Cmon Jason its not just been v City.

He has been offside a lot, 26 times this season, 4th highest in the league, only behind Mane, Watkins and Vardy.

Some of them are sheer laziness not looking across the line. For his pace, he has to learn. As I remember this was the same criticism for Morata a lot here also.

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7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Cmon Jason its not just been v City.

He has been offside a lot, 26 times this season, 4th highest in the league, only behind Mane, Watkins and Vardy.

Some of them are sheer laziness not looking across the line. 

What I meant to say is, hasn't this only become a source of frustration after yesterday and the Madrid game for that one offside goal, if you want to include that? Maybe my memory has failed me but I don't recall people complaining about him being offside a lot until very recently.

Otherwise, it's not that surprising to see him near the top of the list when you consider his playing style and especially two other similar players Mane and Vardy have been offside more. 

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hace 1 minuto, Jas dijo:

What I meant to say is, hasn't this only become a source of frustration after yesterday and the Madrid game for that one offside goal, if you want to include that?

Otherwise, it's not that surprising to see him near the top of the list when you consider his playing style and especially two other similar players Mane and Vardy have been offside more. 

Its a bit of a mix maybe for some people but it has been reoccurring this season. Some of the ones v City and Madrid were painful though and thats why Ian Wright has maybe had his say. I suppose big games this late on in the season means more so maybe why it gets more attention also. There have been others undoubtedly of the same ilk due to a lack of awareness or laziness to not get onside. I do agree some teams play the offside system very well but some don’t, some just sit off us in a deep block.

I get he was unlucky v Liverpool a while ago with one offside but theres got to be a point as well where you have to also think should he not be able to be smarter or see across the line more for some others no? Its as if he hasn’t learned from any of these moments... particularly v Real from Chilwell’s pass. That was criminal for me, hes quicker than all of their players there. One of the disallowed goals v City tbf hes no chance in making it back realistically having seen it again hes about 3 yards offside but there was another ball played to him where he’s so lazily just standing offside, like its frightening how he’s even thinking he isn’t offside there, the one where he rounds Ederson. Also against Spurs back in November, hes looking across the line, blatantly offside, scores yes but has to hold his run although the pass can come sooner but as it didn’t, its still lazy to get caught off when your looking right across the line, like you’d expect that in youth football... cant remember any more of the top of my head but inevitably there will be others and will do some further digging because 26 offsides cannot be purely down to bad luck, playing style or good offside traps.  

I do get his playing style also maybe contributes at times or his role but other players who have similar roles in teams such as Son, Martial, Salah, Sterling, are all offside much less considerably than Werner is. So I wouldn’t disagree with what Ian Wright has said or say that its purely just down to his style, its down to a lot more than that.

As I said I remember the stress and annoyance from Morata being offside far too often here, I dont see how its unfair or any different for Werner. Even more so considering how many teams bar the top ones, actually sit in against us and play a deep block. To have 26 offsides in the league when probably more than 50% of the games is against smaller teams who play in or around their own 18 yard box in a low block limiting space in behind is extremely annoying. 

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54 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Its a bit of a mix maybe for some people but it has been reoccurring this season. Some of the ones v City and Madrid were painful though and thats why Ian Wright has maybe had his say. I suppose big games this late on in the season means more so maybe why it gets more attention also. There have been others undoubtedly of the same ilk due to a lack of awareness or laziness to not get onside. I do agree some teams play the offside system very well but some don’t, some just sit off us in a deep block.

I get he was unlucky v Liverpool a while ago with one offside but theres got to be a point as well where you have to also think should he not be able to be smarter or see across the line more for some others no? Its as if he hasn’t learned from any of these moments... particularly v Real from Chilwell’s pass. That was criminal for me, hes quicker than all of their players there. One of the disallowed goals v City tbf hes no chance in making it back realistically having seen it again hes about 3 yards offside but there was another ball played to him where he’s so lazily just standing offside, like its frightening how he’s even thinking he isn’t offside there, the one where he rounds Ederson. Also against Spurs back in November, hes looking across the line, blatantly offside, scores yes but has to hold his run although the pass can come sooner but as it didn’t, its still lazy to get caught off when your looking right across the line, like you’d expect that in youth football... cant remember any more of the top of my head but inevitably there will be others and will do some further digging because 26 offsides cannot be purely down to bad luck, playing style or good offside traps.  

I do get his playing style also maybe contributes at times or his role but other players who have similar roles in teams such as Son, Martial, Salah, Sterling, are all offside much less considerably than Werner is. So I wouldn’t disagree with what Ian Wright has said or say that its purely just down to his style, its down to a lot more than that.

As I said I remember the stress and annoyance from Morata being offside far too often here, I dont see how its unfair or any different for Werner. Even more so considering how many teams bar the top ones, actually sit in against us and play a deep block. To have 26 offsides in the league when probably more than 50% of the games is against smaller teams who play in or around their own 18 yard box in a low block limiting space in behind is extremely annoying. 

I agree that he should be timing his runs better given he has the pace to beat any defence but not sure why you felt the need to type a long reply by picking out a few offside moments. The one against Spurs was a close offside call, as opposed to being a blatant, well offside offence like some of the ones yesterday.

Even if teams play with a high line against us, we would still expect Werner or any of our other attackers to time their runs. Otherwise, would you say Vardy is lazy considering he's always been up there on the offside list? Leicester also don't always play on the break apart from when they face the Big 6 under Brendan Rodgers. Or what about Rashford? He's just 1 behind Werner on the offside count. Or what's your explanation that Mane is also up there? 

54 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

will do some further digging because 26 offsides cannot be purely down to bad luck, playing style or good offside traps.  

You're really committed into this, aren't you? lol We have gone from talking about his misses to him being offside!

Not sure if there is any stat site out there that gives detailed info on offside. You might have to go look at individual matches instead.

What I've managed to find is Werner's offside per 90 mins stat is less this season compared to previous seasons:

2016/17 - 1.9
2017/18 - 1.6
2018/19 - 1.4
2019/20 - 1.4
2020/21 - 1

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A player with his style always trying to run behind the defence is at great risk of being flagged for offside all the time. I want him to time his runs a little better but I dont want him to start doubting himself over those offsides and refraining from those runs. City can be unlocked with pace.Offside trap is their only weapon to stop fast players while maintaining a high line

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hace 17 minutos, Jas dijo:

I agree that he should be timing his runs better given he has the pace to beat any defence but not sure why you felt the need to type a long reply by picking out a few offside moments. The one against Spurs was a close offside call, as opposed to being a blatant, well offside offence like some of the ones yesterday.

Even if teams play with a high line against us, we would still expect Werner or any of our other attackers to time their runs. Otherwise, would you say Vardy is lazy considering he's always been up there on the offside list? Leicester also don't always play on the break apart from when they face the Big 6 under Brendan Rodgers. Or what about Rashford? He's just 1 behind Werner on the offside count. Or what's your explanation that Mane is also up there? 

You're really committed into this, aren't you? lol We have gone from talking about his misses to him being offside!

Not sure if there is any stat site out there that give detailed info on offside. You might have to go look at individual matches instead.

What I've managed to find is Werner's offside per 90 mins stat is less this season compared to previous seasons:

2016/17 - 1.9
2017/18 - 1.6
2018/19 - 1.4
2019/20 - 1.4
2020/21 - 1

Hes a 50m player we have to start treating him like one unfortunately which I think at times people are forgetting. I tend to remember the slagging off Morata and Abraham used to get for being offside a lot on here. Morata still gets it from Juventus fans too and deservedly so because he has scored like 13 offside goals this season. Should we not be holding these sort of similar players to the same standards no? Instead of being impartial and ignoring it for one guy after others would be chastising others for the same? 

The Spurs one though the point is, he’s still well positioned to look across the line.... which is why I mean its lazy, it would be the same for any CF/attacker.

I think as well if some of these results had swung the other way also, there would be more concern and much more criticism. Ultimately he looks like he’s maybe turning the page but these things, being caught offside frequently, not looking across the line, you can accept it a few times but the top goalscoring players don’t get caught out far too often. The top PL top scorers, Kane, Salah, Son, Fernandes and Calvert-Lewin, have been offside 13, 13, 15, 3 and 17 times. 

Yes Rashford and Vardy may have high offsides but ultimately they aren't sitting with 6 goals 8 assists in 2428 minutes. Both have 10+ goals (Vardy 13, Rashford 10) and 9 assists in the PL).

I mean you do want him to score more right? Hows he going to score more if he perhaps can’t stay/get himself back onside or look across the line more often? Shouldn’t that not be an obvious problem for a CF if he is in the top 5 for offsides when he only has 6 league goals? 

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It is just first year at the club .. cant compares to rashford or vardy .. 

We used to have a lot expensive strike but i cant remember someone try hard as werner .

Im very happy with him. In sure next year gona be a top of the list for goals 

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