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11. Timo Werner


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Nobody has anything to say about Werner? ūü§£

Super delighted that he finally ended his goal drought and got the goal that he deserved. Said it before and will say it again, has looked so much better recently playing in his natural position. Even when he's not scoring, he's impacting games in other ways way more than in his previous winger role. Already contributed a number of assists and won 7 penalties this season. 

Also, any comparison with Morata and Torres is fucking stupid and lazy. Yes, Werner has missed chances but unlike those two, Werner has always kept going, kept getting at the end of chances, kept trying to impact games. He's never hid like those two and unlike Morata, he doesn't fall over easily, moan to referees about decisions going against him or moan to the media about how he's not loved/why no one is passing to him etc. If you have seen Werner's interviews, you can tell that he has a good mentality, attitude and humility about him. Those personal attributes can go a long way to helping a player become successful.

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Really taking the piss now 

Werner has never been the most clinical of players. Last season in the Bundesliga he recorded 20 big chances missed, only second to Lewandowski at 24. That said, it comes with the territory. He's

A bit of class by RB Leipzig by posting the 'one step beyond' and now saying "Look after him for us, we will be rooting for Frank's young guns next season" Classy as fuck

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Nobody has anything to say about Werner? ūü§£

Super delighted that he finally ended his goal drought and got the goal that he deserved. Said it before and will say it again, has looked so much better recently playing in his natural position. Even when he's not scoring, he's impacting games in other ways way more than in his previous winger role. Already contributed a number of assists and won 7 penalties this season. 

Also, any comparison with Morata and Torres is fucking stupid and lazy. Yes, Werner has missed chances but unlike those two, Werner has always kept going, kept getting at the end of chances, kept trying to impact games. He's never hid like those two and unlike Morata, he doesn't fall over easily, moan to referees about decisions going against him or moan to the media about how he's not loved/why no one is passing to him etc. If you have seen Werner's interviews, you can tell that he has a good mentality, attitude and humility about him. Those personal attributes can go a long way to helping a player become successful.

Good game by him, but I hope he somehow gets his first touch to a level that is good enough for high level football. Obviously, not every touch can be perfect and I have seen even Messi make a bad first touch, but a bad first touch happens to Werner all the time. 

 

 

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Just now, killer1257 said:

Good game by him, but I hope he somehow gets his first touch to a level that is good enough for high level football. Obviously, not every touch can be perfect and I have seen even Messi make a bad first touch, but a bad first touch happens to Werner all the time. 

CHRIST! LET US CELEBRATE FOR ONCE! 

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Just now, Jason said:

CHRIST! LET US CELEBRATE FOR ONCE! 

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I started my post on a positive thing thoughūüôĄ. I said he had a good game.¬†

I am just saying that long term wise, we need him to have a decent first touch. His speed and his movements are alright. What he is lacking is first touch and finishing

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Haven't been that worried about his goal drought for these reasons.

A) He wasn't down the middle for most of it.

B ) He was still contributing with top class contributions, first goal tonight, SHU away, Spurs away, WHU home, Leeds away, Newcastle away where he made top contributions to a goal during his drought.

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He has to start scoring consistently. The amount of chances he misses is unacceptable, and we shouldn't treat him as a baby. He is our main striker, and if he is the guy to lead us to titles in the future then I expect to see a level of confidence and ruthlessness from him.

I'm happy he got the goal today, but I expect much more from him.

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2 hours ago, Azul said:

He is our main striker, and if he is the guy to lead us to titles in the future then I expect to see a level of confidence and ruthlessness from him.

If we want to win the title, then we also need others to chip with the goals, not just Werner TBH. You look at our league goalscorers this season and the numbers...and it's kinda miserable.

Abraham - 6

Werner - 5 (still somehow 2nd on the list despite going 2 months without a goal!)

Jorginho - 5 (all penalties)

Zouma & Giroud - 4 (each on 4)

Mount - 3

Chilwell, CHO, Silva - 2 (each on 2)

Azpi, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Alonso, James - 1 (each on 1)

Never mind Werner, we're never going to win the league if the supporting casts - e.g. Abraham, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech, Mount - are posting that kind of numbers. Gonna likely need at least 3 players to hit at least 15 goals each. 

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Is he gonna always play on the left side like this, untill he ends his career in blue shirt?

Probably this is his best position. But to think this position should be fill with player with high calibre or good skillset

Werner actually many times caught as very limited footballer mostly when he play out wide, he just got help by his speed and movement. But thats all from him, beside that, many aspect from his games/his actual capability is shockingly poor

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

If we want to win the title, then we also need others to chip with the goals, not just Werner TBH. You look at our league goalscorers this season and the numbers...and it's kinda miserable.

Abraham - 6

Werner - 5 (still somehow 2nd on the list despite going 2 months without a goal!)

Jorginho - 5 (all penalties)

Zouma & Giroud - 4 (each on 4)

Mount - 3

Chilwell, CHO, Silva - 2 (each on 2)

Azpi, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Alonso, James - 1 (each on 1)

Never mind Werner, we're never going to win the league if the supporting casts - e.g. Abraham, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech, Mount - are posting that kind of numbers. Gonna likely need at least 3 players to hit at least 15 goals each. 

I'm looking at Mount to chip in with more, especially with the position he now occupies.

Also, did you see the number of times in the Newcastle game that¬†CHO passed to Kovacic to take a shot, instead of taking one himself¬† (and even when he had a much better angle)?¬†ūü§¶‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ¬†

Reece James on the other hand comes in and immediately looks to stick one in the net. 

I think more of our players need to be more bold and take more shots at goal and learn to take better shots for that matter (looking at Kovacic).

If you look at United's midfield, they have plenty of players who aren't afraid to take a pop at goal. Fernandes, Pogba, and even mediocre ones like Scott McTominay. Same with Marsenal. 

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2 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

I'm looking at Mount to chip in with more, especially with the position he now occupies.

Also, did you see the number of times in the Newcastle game that¬†CHO passed to Kovacic to take a shot, instead of taking one himself¬† (and even when he had a much better angle)?¬†ūü§¶‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ¬†

Reece James on the other hand comes in and immediately looks to stick one in the net. 

I think more of our players need to be more bold and take more shots at goal and learn to take better shots for that matter (looking at Kovacic).

If you look at United's midfield, they have plenty of players who aren't afraid to take a pop at goal. Fernandes, Pogba, and even mediocre ones like Scott McTominay. Same with Marsenal. 

I guess this is the problem when we have so many players in their early 20s in the attacking areas. We are used to having finished articles in the attacking positions to score/create goals. Now, we have all these early 20s players and they aren't great (yet, hopefully) at creating/scoring regularly. Only Ziyech is at that peak age but even he is more of a creator than a goalscorer. 

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10 hours ago, Jason said:

Nobody has anything to say about Werner? ūü§£

Super delighted that he finally ended his goal drought and got the goal that he deserved. Said it before and will say it again, has looked so much better recently playing in his natural position. Even when he's not scoring, he's impacting games in other ways way more than in his previous winger role. Already contributed a number of assists and won 7 penalties this season. 

Also, any comparison with Morata and Torres is fucking stupid and lazy. Yes, Werner has missed chances but unlike those two, Werner has always kept going, kept getting at the end of chances, kept trying to impact games. He's never hid like those two and unlike Morata, he doesn't fall over easily, moan to referees about decisions going against him or moan to the media about how he's not loved/why no one is passing to him etc. If you have seen Werner's interviews, you can tell that he has a good mentality, attitude and humility about him. Those personal attributes can go a long way to helping a player become successful.

He played well but this is why I am concerned that he was struggling to put those sort of performances out under Frank. His role has changed a good bit but he is still predominantly playing from the left side and the amount of times he was on the outside whilst Alonso was inside the box shows this. His assist for Giroud’s goal was the sort of thing I was expecting more when he played under Frank as a winger also which is what I had meant in previous discussions we have had about affecting games in other ways and adapting to his position. Not as if he wasn’t capable of that months ago, taking people on, slowing them down and then accelerating past them. Although confidence maybe didn’t help him but still felt he could have done more (most could have though to be fair). Its not exactly unfair to have expected more when you see his performances in the last few games where he still has a lot of actions coming in from the left hand side.

There is more of a structure in place to get the ball from our defence into attacking positions so I hope this is the kick start of his season for him now and fingers crossed it is as his goals and other contributions will be vital to how our season goes I feel.

Still needs to be more clinical though he could have scored before his goal from Alonso’s header, he should be anticipating where that is going better and being much better positioned, the likes of Kane, Aguero, Cavani, Salah, Mane etc if they were in the same situation they’d of been in a slightly better position where they didnt have to stretch and it would of been a goal IMO. 

Now, with Tammy injured by the looks of it, perhaps he will play more centrally for a while as I cant see us relying on Giroud every week. Also Timo needs to be a bit more street smart physically he isn’t necessarily going to get every little foul like the Lewis one where he’s taken the ball off him and caught him by accident with his arm but I would imagine next season he will be more used to it. Last night not the first game, he needs to get on with it at times when he doesn’t get the decision.

And aye anyone calling him Morata/Torres its a lazy comparison, although he has missed big chances but unlike them he has constantly been trying to keep getting into good positions and doing other things.

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2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

His assist for Giroud’s goal was the sort of thing I was expecting more when he played under Frank as a winger also which is what I had meant in previous discussions we have had about affecting games in other ways and adapting to his position. Not as if he wasn’t capable of that months ago, taking people on, slowing them down and then accelerating past them.

The difference between now and then is that Werner is playing a lot higher and operating in the half spaces, allowing him better opportunities to attack the space in behind while also not have many players to beat. Under Lampard, he was playing as a winger and operating in wider/deeper areas. Also has less emphasis on defensive duties and can focus on going forward. Our passing then was also slow and ponderous, thus giving the opposition so much time to get back into shape and deny the space that Werner likes to get into. Put that altogether, he has to dribble past players and beat them - which we know it's not his strength - and that's different from simply beating players for pace like he did yesterday. Also has more room and space to do that against Newcastle. And not to mention, it also helps that we have much more coordinated movement with the players under Tuchel than Lampard. Previously, it looked as though as the players were just moving into random positions and not creating space as well as options for the others. 

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7 hours ago, Jason said:

If we want to win the title, then we also need others to chip with the goals, not just Werner TBH. You look at our league goalscorers this season and the numbers...and it's kinda miserable.

Abraham - 6

Werner - 5 (still somehow 2nd on the list despite going 2 months without a goal!)

Jorginho - 5 (all penalties)

Zouma & Giroud - 4 (each on 4)

Mount - 3

Chilwell, CHO, Silva - 2 (each on 2)

Azpi, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz, Alonso, James - 1 (each on 1)

Never mind Werner, we're never going to win the league if the supporting casts - e.g. Abraham, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech, Mount - are posting that kind of numbers. Gonna likely need at least 3 players to hit at least 15 goals each. 

Ofcourse but Werner is our star striker that we have signed for 50m and he got the most opportunities to score if you look at the amount of goals created for him. Add context to the stats, ofcourse he is second on that list when he get's so many opportunities.

Ziyech, and Havertz haven't been fit for most of the season so I don't count them. I do agree with Mount and Abraham. They don't contribute enough to the team. However if we're being real, Timo missed way too many opportunities.

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2 minutes ago, Azul said:

Ofcourse but Werner is our star striker that we have signed for 50m and he got the most opportunities to score if you look at the amount of goals created for him.

Ziyech, and Havertz haven't been fit for most of the season so I don't count them. I do agree with Mount and Abraham. They don't contribute enough to the team. However if we're being real, Timo missed way too many opportunities.

Am not excusing Werner for his misses. Just stating facts. All title winners have at least a few players hitting at least 15 goals or even 10 at the very least and of course Werner should be one of them. And doesn't matter Ziyech and Havertz haven't been fit this season. We're not going to win it anyway. But going forward, if we want to win it, then they also need to produce. 

5 minutes ago, Azul said:

Add context to the stats, ofcourse he is second on that list when he get's so many opportunities.

By saying "still somehow 2nd on the list despite going 2 months without a goal", I meant it to illustrate how bad the others have been. Abraham is just only 1 goal ahead and no one else has even overtaken Werner during his drought (Jorginho did before yesterday but all his goals are penalties). It's not as if the likes of CHO, Pulisic, Mount do not get chances to score. 

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10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Am not excusing Werner for his misses. Just stating facts. All title winners have at least a few players hitting at least 15 goals or even 10 at the very least and of course Werner should be one of them. And doesn't matter Ziyech and Havertz haven't been fit this season. We're not going to win it anyway. But going forward, if we want to win it, then they also need to produce. 

By saying "still somehow 2nd on the list despite going 2 months without a goal", I meant it to illustrate how bad the others have been. Abraham is just only 1 goal ahead and no one else has even overtaken Werner during his drought (Jorginho did before yesterday but all his goals are penalties). It's not as if the likes of CHO, Pulisic, Mount do not get chances to score. 

Ofcourse it matters that Ziyech and Havertz weren't fit. You can't judge them because they haven't played enough games, does that make sense? Whereas Timo played most of the games for us besides Mount. When fit, ofcourse they need to produce, however Havertz's goalcontributions is almost the same as Mount even though he played three times less games than Mount did. I'm confident Havertz can do the job when he is fully fit, suffering from heavy covid symptoms is no joke so I'll give him a pass. Ziyech on the other hand has been handed many injuries, and following him at Ajax he isn't known for being injury prone. Still the fact remains that he hasn't played enough, so it's silly to judge his goalcontributions.

I fully agree with Abraham, Pulisic and Mount. All three are heavily overrated when it comes to how people talk about them. People rave about Mount, however he doesn't contribute enough when it comes to being precise in the final third. Abraham is just.... let me not start lol. Pulisic is incredibly off form, he looks like a different player compared to last season. He can't be trusted because of his inconsistencies and injuries.

The reason why I'm judging Timo the most though, is because we signed him for big money specifically to score goals. He got a lot of chances and missed them in horrible fashion. Even though, Mount and the rest have also missed chances, the volume they get is much much less. He also has no excuses when it comes to his fitness, he played most of the games this season.

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18 minutes ago, Azul said:

however Havertz's goalcontributions is almost the same as Mount even though he played three times less games than Mount did. 

Actually he has more. Kai 5 goals and 5 assists (all open play). And Mount 4 goals and 5 assists (3 corners). 

In the PL they both did very little in terms of numbers. 

Kai 4 from 5 goals scored against 2nd and 4th division clubs. Mount if you take away corners and teams that will get relegated is on 0 and 0 ūüėĒ People made excuses how he is a DM or something like that but now he is one of the 3 most offensive players on the pitch. He absolutely has to deliver in the final 3rd or he will lose his place. I mean it's just a matter of time before Kai or Puli or Hakim take his place because they are more likely to deliver and all have been shit last couple of months. Mount deserves to play over them now but in the long run he will lose. I mean look at Willian or Oscar, they were both having season with around 10 goals and 10 assists but were never good enough for us. Can Mount ever be better than that?¬† Again, he is no longer MF but one of the 3 most attacking players in the team. Now everything changes.¬†

And funny stat is that Kai has more open play assists than Mount in less than 1500 min played for Chelsea. Mount played more than 6000 minutes. 

For Kai it's starting next season. I absolutely expect 20 goals per season at least and 15+ assists. 

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1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Actually he has more. Kai 5 goals and 5 assists (all open play). And Mount 4 goals and 5 assists (3 corners). 

In the PL they both did very little in terms of numbers. 

Kai 4 from 5 goals scored against 2nd and 4th division clubs. Mount if you take away corners and teams that will get relegated is on 0 and 0 ūüėĒ People made excuses how he is a DM or something like that but now he is one of the 3 most offensive players on the pitch. He absolutely has to deliver in the final 3rd or he will lose his place. I mean it's just a matter of time before Kai or Puli or Hakim take his place because they are more likely to deliver and all have been shit last couple of months. Mount deserves to play over them now but in the long run he will lose. I mean look at Willian or Oscar, they were both having season with around 10 goals and 10 assists but were never good enough for us. Can Mount ever be better than that?¬† Again, he is no longer MF but one of the 3 most attacking players in the team. Now everything changes.¬†

And funny stat is that Kai has more open play assists than Mount in less than 1500 min played for Chelsea. Mount played more than 6000 minutes. 

For Kai it's starting next season. I absolutely expect 20 goals per season at least and 15+ assists. 

If we're going down the route of cheapining goals on opposition and assists then the same applies to 4 of Havertz 5 goals and 3 of his assists. 

Also last time i checked (December time) he was 4th in the league on chances created (and two of the three above him have their teams entire system's tailored for their benefit) and that's bigger barometer of individual creativity as that doesn't require someone else doing their job to go on record!

Edited by Tomo
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