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22. Hakim Ziyech


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22 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

It was obvious that there must be a reason why he was where he was at that stage of his career. Some of us made this point while his transfer was being discussed.

There are some truths that those responsible for Chelsea's player recruitment must learn if they don't already know them and which they must not ignore if they do: -

     Never buy on form.

     If a player's touch is poor when he's 18 it will be poor when he's 28. Ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. They are either not old enough or not observant enough to know better.

     If an outfield player in the prime of his career is playing at a lower level than it looks like he should be aware that there is a reason why he's where he is. A good reason.

    Chelsea should never pay elite level transfer fees because established elite players never choose Chelsea. We have no choice but to try to find the elite players before they have established themselves.

How about never buy players from the Dutch Eredivisie?

21 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Granted Ziyech hasn’t done enough and looks out of his depth after a brief spell in pre season and in the SC

Remember what you were saying about Ziyech back then? 

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That is utter madness. He would cost £80m if he played for a PL club.

If you have the BT app tune into "Ziyech:Wizard of AMS". Gives you a great insight into the man aswell as the player. He goes over his personal feelings when Nouri collapsed (he was right next to him

Ziyech has been one of the better players for the last decade in the Eredivisie. He had an outstanding Champions League campaign last year with Ajax. Journalists here question if he has the quality to

4 hours ago, Jase said:

How about never buy players from the Dutch Eredivisie?

We bought Kalou and he didn't do too bad.

Edited by LAM09
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19 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

We bought Kalou and he didn't do too bad.

How many donkey years ago was that?

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1 hour ago, Jase said:

How many donkey years ago was that?

A while ago, but the point still remains. There are a few gems that are worth looking at alongside the duds.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ziyech has a big job to convince Tuchel he’s worth a key role in his Chelsea team

https://theathletic.com/2886569/2021/10/13/ziyeziyech-has-a-big-job-to-convince-tuchel-hes-worth-a-key-role-in-Chelsea-team/

LONDON, ENGLAND - SEPTEMBER 14: Hakim Ziyech of Chelsea FC looks on during the UEFA Champions League group H match between Chelsea FC and Zenit St. Petersburg at Stamford Bridge on September 14, 2021 in London, England. (Photo by Chloe Knott - Danehouse/Getty Images)

If there was a poll to determine the most disappointing player Chelsea signed in 2020, who would get your vote?

It was a transfer splurge no Chelsea fan will forget. After going two windows without buying anybody — one due to a FIFA embargo, the other out of choice — a club-record £200 million-plus was spent on five players: Kai Havertz, Timo Werner, Ben Chilwell, Hakim Ziyech and Edouard Mendy. Thiago Silva and Malang Sarr also joined as free agents.

One suspects Werner’s goalscoring issues, Havertz’s inconsistent form, given the talk about him being a generational talent and Chilwell’s spell on the sidelines this season might attract a bit of negative support. However, all three started and made their mark in the Champions League final victory in May. For many people, the fact Havertz scored the winner that night makes his fee, which could reach £90 million, value for money whatever happens next.

Only two of the seven didn’t feature in that game against Manchester City in Porto. Sarr was not available for selection having spent the season on loan — oddly enough, at Porto. The other was Ziyech, who was an unused substitute. Out of all the candidates, his name is probably the one most Chelsea followers would put an X by in this hypothetical poll.

Ziyech has spent too much of his 14-month Chelsea career watching the action from the sidelines. He has started just 16 times in the Premier League — and only 28 matches in all competitions — and still faces a real challenge to become a regular.

Misfortune has certainly played a part, with injuries in both pre-seasons hampering the Morocco international’s progress. There has been the odd flash of brilliance, and important goals in wins over Atletico Madrid, Manchester City (twice) and Villarreal this year demonstrated what an asset he can be.

But if you take yourself back to the excitement his signature generated when Chelsea bought him from Ajax for an initial £33 million, it would be fair to say he has underperformed.

In 165 appearances for Ajax, the attacking midfielder scored 49 goals and provided a remarkable 81 assists. In contrast, his Chelsea record reads seven goals and four assists from 45 games. Notably, he has not set up a team-mate’s goal yet this season.

Naturally, the difference in quality between the Dutch Eredivisie and the Premier League has to be taken into account. But this was a man who shone as Ajax came within moments of reaching the 2018-19 Champions League final. It was hoped he would bring this flair to Stamford Bridge.

To his credit, Ziyech admitted in February that he was finding the adaption to life in England on and off the pitch a bit of a struggle.

It has been a difficult first six months for me,” he told Dutch media outlet Ziggo Sport. “I began with an injury, came back and then got injured again. Things have not gone as I had hoped.

“The pace of the game over here is much quicker than it was at Ajax. I picked that up straight away, and then I got injured in my first training game. That sets you back completely and then it happens again. It was bloody annoying.

Chelsea FA Cup

“I am used to having my friends, and my mum, around me. Being without them has taken some getting used to and the (COVID-19) lockdown made matters worse. On top of that, I’ve had to learn how to drive on the other side of the road. I’ve not had any accidents, but it was very difficult at the start.”

A lot of Chelsea players benefitted from the arrival of Thomas Tuchel as head coach in January, but it could be argued Ziyech hasn’t been one of them. The change to a 3-4-2-1 formation has seen him pushed in-field when selected as one of the No 10s and he doesn’t look as comfortable there. It has also further exposed his struggle to press opponents and perform the more defensive side of the game, a facet Tuchel not just expects but demands.

His last outing for Chelsea in the Premier League was more than a month ago. When given a surprise start away to Juventus in the Champions League, he was ineffective for an hour and then replaced with Ruben Loftus-Cheek.

He then did not get on the pitch in Chelsea’s next, and most recent, match against Southampton and Tuchel, who also rested Havertz after an unconvincing spell in the side, explained why. The words were pretty damning. He said: “We always try to do our best to bring the players in the best shape but at some point, after a lot of chances, we have to admit that Kai and Hakim, for example, are not in their very best shape.

‘It’s maybe not even their fault, it’s just like this in the moment. They’re struggling to be decisive. They lost maybe the belief or confidence. Nobody is angry at them, nobody has major concerns, but we have to pay attention to actual form and we need to win games.”

It is that last line that should concern Ziyech most.

Tuchel sounds like a man who has lost trust in him at a juncture when competition for places is getting even more intense. The German has even more options to choose from, with Ross Barkley and Loftus-Cheek making a difference in recent weeks. Christian Pulisic is also getting closer to fitness following an ankle injury, and Havertz is always going to be high in the pecking order due to his price tag and talent.

A run of seven Chelsea fixtures in 22 days before the next international break in November should give Ziyech an opportunity to impress at some point, and it is important he takes it.

Considering he is about a quarter of the way through a five-year contract, time is still on his side to make a bigger impact at Stamford Bridge, but he won’t want to be relegated to the role of squad player.

In some performances, his body language has come across as dejected. That has not gone down well in the court of public opinion.

Another indication of Ziyech’s declining fortune is being dropped by Morocco. The head coach Vahid Halilhodzic accused him last month of feigning injury to get out of playing a friendly in June and left him out of the squad as punishment. The player took to Instagram to deny the claims, saying “next time you speak, tell the truth”.

The rift hasn’t been repaired but at least it gave him the opportunity to train with Tuchel during the international breaks in September and also this month, having not been called up for their October World Cup qualifiers against Guinea-Bissau and Guinea.

Encouragingly, though, he talks like a man doing his utmost to make the move to Chelsea a success. Speaking in April, he said: “It’s always about believing in yourself. You have some points where some things worry you, but you have to be mentally stronger.

“I’m the type of guy that always believes in myself, I always work hard in training. It’s not that it always comes out in games but I’m working hard every day on it. I know what I can do and I always trust in myself.”

Tuchel is going to be a lot harder to convince.

 

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Good read. I'd say Ziyech plays in a different wavelength, but not only from Tuchel's style like the article suggests, but rather from the modern game and especially the PL.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Someone we need to part ways with; just doesn't have the application to succeed over here.

He'd probably do an adequate job in Italy.

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I see he is still most criticized player in game thread and among fan base...

But to be fair to him he started last 3 games and somehow delivered... Assist against Southampton for only goal, against Newcastle scored great goal but disallowed because of offside and hit the post so was unlucky not to score there... And today scored only goal... Just like CHO played part in goals... Was not this our biggest problem? Lukaku is 100m striker who did not scored in last 7 games he played... Mount went almost 6 months without goal before Norwich... Havertz is missing a lot of chances... So Hakim deserves some credit and to start more games just like CHO...

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35 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I see he is still most criticized player in game thread and among fan base...

But to be fair to him he started last 3 games and somehow delivered... Assist against Southampton for only goal, against Newcastle scored great goal but disallowed because of offside and hit the post so was unlucky not to score there... And today scored only goal... Just like CHO played part in goals... Was not this our biggest problem? Lukaku is 100m striker who did not scored in last 7 games he played... Mount went almost 6 months without goal before Norwich... Havertz is missing a lot of chances... So Hakim deserves some credit and to start more games just like CHO...

I swear you're a troll. 

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13 minutes ago, Jase said:

I swear you're a troll. 

Well he's got a point there.

Ziyech should be the very first name in the starting XI every time we play Malmo.

Edited by robsblubot
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7 minutes ago, Mana said:

I don't see him criticised as much, but to be honest I'm sick of him getting injured like Pulisic...

Ziyech isn't getting much credit because we expect him to do more than what he's doing right now. He's supposed to be at his peak.

Fans will start to respect Ziyech more when he continues being a serious threat and not get injured. The latter is so important.

Ziyech is not even injury prone like Pulisic is. He's literally missed only one game through injury this season. 

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1 hour ago, Mana said:

I don't see him criticised as much, but to be honest I'm sick of him getting injured like Pulisic...

Ziyech isn't getting much credit because we expect him to do more than what he's doing right now. He's supposed to be at his peak.

Fans will start to respect Ziyech more when he continues being a serious threat and not get injured. The latter is so important.

But it is clear he is last in packing order. Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Lukaku were all more expensive players. And if you look how much minutes Mount plays it is clear he is regular starter (not so much this season tho).

Of possible 5310mins last season Ziyech played just 1900mins. So 35%. And had 6g and 4a. Scored important goals against Atletico and City 2x. This is good return in very limited time. This season again the same.

Considering all this expectations from him should not be the same as mentioned players. He is basically there to do job when got opportunity and this is what he did. In CC last week and now against weakest opponent in CL.

If you look at game time he is what Origi/Minamino are for Liverpool not Mane/Salah.

Every time he makes mistake people call him shit and names and want him gone... By the look of it some people expect 3 assists from him in every game...

When we signed him I thought realistic expectations from him would be something like 8 goals in a season and around 15 assists. And if he was given regular starter minutes by doing simple math this is exactly what he would have...

But this is reality in big club, too many great players. I am not saying he should be starter here, looking on paper we have better players but I feel people are too harsh on him.

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1 hour ago, Jase said:

Ziyech is not even injury prone like Pulisic is. He's literally missed only one game through injury this season. 

Depends how you define "missing" here. 😉

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6 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But it is clear he is last in packing order. Havertz, Pulisic, Werner, Lukaku were all more expensive players. And if you look how much minutes Mount plays it is clear he is regular starter (not so much this season tho).

Of possible 5310mins last season Ziyech played just 1900mins. So 35%. And had 6g and 4a. Scored important goals against Atletico and City 2x. This is good return in very limited time. This season again the same.

Considering all this expectations from him should not be the same as mentioned players. He is basically there to do job when got opportunity and this is what he did. In CC last week and now against weakest opponent in CL.

If you look at game time he is what Origi/Minamino are for Liverpool not Mane/Salah.

Every time he makes mistake people call him shit and names and want him gone... By the look of it some people expect 3 assists from him in every game...

When we signed him I thought realistic expectations from him would be something like 8 goals in a season and around 15 assists. And if he was given regular starter minutes by doing simple math this is exactly what he would have...

But this is reality in big club, too many great players. I am not saying he should be starter here, looking on paper we have better players but I feel people are too harsh on him.

I agree Ziyech is doing a just about adequate job for an attacker no. 6 and a 30m signing. It is probably more down to the constellation of a  multiple factors he get so much shit.The hype he received due to his exploits at Ajax, him beign so much older than the rest of our attackers bar Rom, plus his ponderous playing style where he takes ages on the ball to curl in his passes and takes so many shots. He is just extremely frustrating to watch. But at least he does try those shots and in general is different in playing style than our other attackers. So i don't mind the job he is doing as a last resort option, i just wish he was a bit less frustrating, quicker and more efficient at it.

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He's a Youtube player, will make a wonderful pass or a great goal, after 10 absolutely horrendous misses. He's very decent off the ball and presses relatively well, but we can (and should) certainly expect more from him on the ball. Inconsistent is the word for his ball usage I guess.

@NikkiCFC, a player can score a goal and still have had a pretty shitty performance. The goal will "save" the day for the player, but it does not mean that the bad performance did not happen.

It's funny what you mentioned about the Newcastle game and the disallowed goal, him hitting the post and whatnot. I watched the game and he was arguably the worst player on the pitch (first to be taken off if i recall correctly). But watched MOTD that night and they would only show clips with Ziyech's involvement, to the extent that one would believe he was the best player on the pitch that day if you had not seen the game. 

As always you focus on G+A only, that's not all there is.. 

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I still want him gone and upgrade him. 

I wonder if newscastle would want him and if he would go there? 

But to me we can do better then him

 

Edited by Fernando
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49 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I still want him gone and upgrade him. 

I wonder if newscastle would want him and if he would go there? 

But to me we can do better then him

 

If he were to leave it would be outside the Prem. No way does he fancy this league. 

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39 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

If he were to leave it would be outside the Prem. No way does he fancy this league. 

He is going to Milan I reckon.

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1 hour ago, Fernando said:

I still want him gone and upgrade him. 

I wonder if newscastle would want him and if he would go there? 

But to me we can do better then him

 

I think we have a very talented player there - but with his attitude of 'not really bothered that much if it goes in or not' I tend to agree. 

The danger is he turns into another De Bruyne, Salah if another manager gets the best out of him

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