Worst Chelsea players in 21st century?

[Vesper 27,281]

Just now, King Kante said:

Tbf, when I say height and size I also mean his wingspan and not just his height. Personally, his height in isolation is not a massive issue, however when he has all the other faults I mentioned it does because he cannot do a TC/Cech and use his height/size advantage to dominate his box.

I am thoroughly unhappy with the buy

it looks more and more like a top 5 ever fuck-up for the club

and to make matter worse

Guaita was dogshit tonight for Palace, he literally cost them the game

so down and off my list as a decent backup he goes

as the error was THAT bad

[Vesper 27,281]

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Not sure why Kepa is in this worst players in 21st century thread, he wouldn’t even be in the top 25. If he kept up his level from last season or didn't have that dodgy spell he wouldn't even be in the running. Weird to see that what maybe a dodgy spell that accumulates to maybe 7 or 8 games defines someone who was one of our better players and the better GKs in the PL last season to be in the running for worst Chelsea player of the 21st century.....

People can mention the fee but it was a buyout clause. At a club who have only sold their other key players (Javi Martinez and Herrera for instance and rejecting offers lower than the buyouts for Muniain and Williams over the years) for their buyout clauses because they have a recruitment policy where they try recruit players from the Basque provinces (right way to word it I think). With some of the fee probably being paid in instalments and other bonuses over the basis of a 7 year contract. Or even then if not, still, did the money come out of their pockets directly or mines or whoever elses? I mean realistically who is worth 71mn? In a realistic world where football transfers weren't inflated? Maybe 15 or 20 players? Out of thousands? Also, In a realistic world there really isnt anyone in our squad who you would justify paying that fee for. But the market’s inflated which has been an accumulation built upon spending by the likes of Real Madrid, us, Man City, Man United, PSG and the high prices of television deals and sponsorships.... so these thing are going to continue to happen unless Covid totally sends it the other way.

Even then if youve been watching Chelsea for any reasonable length of time and Kepa still makes your list of worst players in 21st century at the club, I really dont know. I can probably think of at least 20 others who were much much worse. Perhaps more if you went into real depth.

he isnt

it is a side talk

sorry for hijacking the thread

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

1 minute ago, Vesper said:

he isnt

it is a side talk

sorry for hijacking the thread

Its probably my bad for not looking far enough back 😂 and actually after checking it is 100% my bad for jumping the gun on a thread where he is mentioned maybe 3 times in a different context. Oh boy.

[Vesper 27,281]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Its probably my bad for not looking far enough back 😂 and actually after checking it is 100% my bad for jumping the gun on a thread where he is mentioned maybe 3 times in a different context. Oh boy.

no problem, cheers

[NikkiCFC 7,560]

17 hours ago, King Kante said:

I categorised him as biggest waste of money for a number of reasons. The reasons are; 

1) He was never a £72m player and had done nothing to warrant such a fee. Hence, where players like Torres and Sheva had records to lean on. Kepa was just some random than we went mental on. 

2) You must be forgetting the Arsenal game at home. That game was for me his worst game as on the 1v1 he did his usual run out into no mans land which allows the player to slide it past him easily, then he dived the wrong way for the Bellerin goal (I mean seriously, how does a GK dive the wrong way?). 

3) Kepa's stats over 3 years (since he broke into the Bilbao first team), show no areas where you can say 'oh, look, he does this really well'. In fact, since he broke in he has conceded more goals than he should have done every single season. 

Kepa has serious defects to his game that will be difficult to iron out. These are:

1) His tenancy to swing his arms behind his back before attempting a save. This is a key reason for his 'weak wrists' and shot/save percentage. Further, this is also why his saves look great, when in fact most of them should be stopped regardless.

2) He is tiny for a GK. As they saying goes in American sports, 'you cannot teach height or size'. This is a big problem in a position, where height is probably the most important thing before agility, some may even argue it is the most inportant. 

3) He isn't brave. This is why he stays rooted to his line all the time and is awful in 1v1's (although I do give him credit for the City game where he closed down Sterling properly. I legitimately think this is the first time I have seen him do the right thing in a 1v1). 

4) His distribution is poor or at best very average. This is a problem as when you're not a top GK owning your six yard area or a top save specialist, you better have great distribution to help on attack like Ederson does. Kepa doesn't. 

5) When balls get cut in, he is very poor at covering his goal and allows himself to get very square on to a shot. Literally, I have not seen a top level GK struggle with this so much. He literally leaves the goal wide open 80% of the time on a cut back or puts himself in a really bad position to save a quick shot.

As I said, anyone who doesn't get the criticism/concerns over Kepa need to read this article; 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2020/5/14/21257561/solving-chelseas-kepa-conundrum-part-1

Further, the arguement that Real wanted him is also not a great one in my opinion. Real hds him pretty much secured for €20m/£18m when he was on wages of around £10-15k per week (his initial Bilbao contract) so they probably could given him £40-50k. However, even in that situation Zidane still didn't want him. 

We should not judge him by his price tag. It is not his fault. And if you count money we got for Tibo he costed something like 35m? 

Now people want to replace Kepa with Onana or Henderson. They are not upgrade, not even close. Lollichon wanted Areola.

Kepa only has 143 top-flight games. He can only get better. I do not understand why people after great first year and not so good second season want to get rid of him right away? 

With this thinking we would sell Drogba or Kovacic after first season...

It is like you dont believe he can get awesome again for the future... In the video I posted he had some spectacular saves. 

About Arsenal game I think criticizing comes from the fact that they scored from only 2 shots on goal. It makes Kepa look bad. But listen yourself, you blame him for not saving one on one?! That is like blaming him for not saving penalty.

Why was he in this situation? Because Kante did his best Gerrard impression and Emerson also did not cover how he should.

Ok for second goal I can see why you think he should saved it I also think he could do better but still look at Tammy and Emerson, the way they defended against Ballerin is comical and Kepa was marked.

Again we can win major trophies with him. In his first season here he conceded 39 goals and if you take away City and Bournemouth games when we conceded 10 goals just 29 in 36 is great record. 

In Conte winning season we conceded 33, in the last Mourinho winning season 32. Same as Ancelotti title season.

Weak wrists thing if it is true he can work on that. But look at Valencia penalty save he still stopped the ball.

Height argument was taken down by Vesper. All top GKs are similar. 

Kepa is still better with his feet and distribution that Tibo. Even Sarri said this.

I am sure he will change your mind soon.

 

 

 

[King Kante 1,289]

8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

We should not judge him by his price tag. It is not his fault. And if you count money we got for Tibo he costed something like 35m? 

Now people want to replace Kepa with Onana or Henderson. They are not upgrade, not even close. Lollichon wanted Areola.

Kepa only has 143 top-flight games. He can only get better. I do not understand why people after great first year and not so good second season want to get rid of him right away? 

With this thinking we would sell Drogba or Kovacic after first season...

It is like you dont believe he can get awesome again for the future... In the video I posted he had some spectacular saves. 

About Arsenal game I think criticizing comes from the fact that they scored from only 2 shots on goal. It makes Kepa look bad. But listen yourself, you blame him for not saving one on one?! That is like blaming him for not saving penalty.

Why was he in this situation? Because Kante did his best Gerrard impression and Emerson also did not cover how he should.

Ok for second goal I can see why you think he should saved it I also think he could do better but still look at Tammy and Emerson, the way they defended against Ballerin is comical and Kepa was marked.

Again we can win major trophies with him. In his first season here he conceded 39 goals and if you take away City and Bournemouth games when we conceded 10 goals just 29 in 36 is great record. 

In Conte winning season we conceded 33, in the last Mourinho winning season 32. Same as Ancelotti title season.

Weak wrists thing if it is true he can work on that. But look at Valencia penalty save he still stopped the ball.

Height argument was taken down by Vesper. All top GKs are similar. 

Kepa is still better with his feet and distribution that Tibo. Even Sarri said this.

I am sure he will change your mind soon.

 

 

 

Well, if you look at my initial post, I categorised him under 'biggest waste of money' which meant that I was taking into consideration his fee. I clearly broke down the different areas you can categorise a player as a 'worst player/buy'. I haven't said he is the worst full stop. 

As for Onana and Henderson, I have personally touted neither. Henderson, I am not sold on as I find he can get beaten near post a lot and Onana is someone who I have seen a little of - he has looked decent enough if not a world beater - but has a massive problem with his ACoN comments. 

People say Kepa had a great season last season but I do not think he did. In fact, I would say this season he has been about the same, it is just last season we defended better. This is bourne out in his stats. Just because Chelsea fans where saying he had a great game (because that what fans do with new signings, whilst due to his saving technique he can make basic saves seem top notch) does not actually mean he was good. In fact, statistically he is doing better this year that last believe it or not.

Actually, you will find in 1v1's the average conversion rate is around 50%, they are not nailed on goals. Kepa has about a 20% save rate. This is because he places himself in no-mans land as he doesn't commit himself to either closing down the space or guarding the goal (although he did close down the space against Sterling against City, which I give him a lot of credit for as that is what he should be doing all the time. Hopefully, that will prove a turning point.)

As for the second Le Arse goal, I am sorry but any half decent PL GK should save that one. This is one of my principal issues with Kepa. A good/great GK bails out their defence when they make a mistake, with him everyone just says, 'oh, well his defence let him down'. No GK has a perfect defence which means that they do not have to face difficult shots, that is what they are meant to deal with when the defence makes a mistake. Kepa doesn't do this expect for very rare occasions like Fulham away last season and the SC against the Dippers. 

As for distribution, I wouldn't say he is great either. Both Ederson and Alisson are head and shoulders above him for sure. I mean this season, there have been a number of occasions where he has played us into serious trouble. The City home game and Everton away game are prime examples of this. I do not beat him up too much on this, as I think this happens to all GK's that get asked to play in such a way. However, his distribution if we are being honest is more Pickford level than Ederson/Alisson. 

As for his height, as I also said to Vesper, my comment was that in American sports they have a term that says 'you can't teach height and size'. This means I was criticising his wingspan (I do not think you'll argue he has short arms)/build as well as his height. Further, I also said this would not be such an issue if he has amazing skills elsewhere - shot stopping/controlling his area/instructing his defence/distribution etc. However, he doesn't. This means he cannot do what someone like Cech or TC does in that they make up for there weaker shot saving/distribution skills (neither were/are the best in the world at this) with completely dominating their area. 

Anyway, as I have said and given evidence for with the statistical break down. Kepa has been a poor GK for the past three seasons on virtually every metric you can statistically measure him on (except at Bilbao where it appears that he was good at cross collection.) This isn't me making it up or making him a 'strawman' this is true and I have provided the evidence for it. If you have counter statistical evidence and/or video footage that is not just an odd save here or there, then please share it and I would be more than happy to re-evaluate my position on him. 

[bigbluewillie 1,805]

On 31/08/2019 at 3:01 PM, Superblue_1986 said:

The most disappointing for me personally was Shevchenko who was simply a shadow of the player he was at Milan. Him and Ballack were really the first two proper superstar signings of the Roman era and having to accommodate him actually hindered us more than helped.

And he cost £31M...a Mil for everyone one of his years

[Vesper 27,281]

4 hours ago, bigbluewillie said:

And he cost £31M...a Mil for everyone one of his years

He was 29yo when we bought him

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

It has to be Drinkwater, considering his playing time, transfer fee and salary. It’s beyond ridiculous how he is still a Chelsea player.

[MoroccanBlue 5,192]

Morata was worse than Torres for me. 

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

There is a difference between worst buy and worst player Drinkwater was a terrible buy but he hardly played he scored the blinder against Stoke I can't recall anything apart from that. Kepa was the worst buy and worst player 70 million quid for someone who refused to be substituted scored an own goal via his face and has about as much presence as the invisible man.  Kepa wins I was going to say hands down but that didn't seem appropriate as that's his normal position as the ball sails past him or he fails to hold anything that's got even a miniscule amount of power behind it.

[Superblue 6,331]

40 minutes ago, Iggy Doonican said:

There is a difference between worst buy and worst player Drinkwater was a terrible buy but he hardly played he scored the blinder against Stoke I can't recall anything apart from that. Kepa was the worst buy and worst player 70 million quid for someone who refused to be substituted scored an own goal via his face and has about as much presence as the invisible man.  Kepa wins I was going to say hands down but that didn't seem appropriate as that's his normal position as the ball sails past im or he fails to hold anything that's got even a miniscule amount of power behind it.

This thread definitely needs revising after last season. I agree Kepa is very easily pushing towards, if not, the worst player and worst buy.

I fear he'll be a noose around this club's neck for the next 3-4 years just like Torres was, unless we can find a good goalkeeper on the cheap.

[bigbluewillie 1,805]

6 hours ago, Vesper said:

He was 29yo when we bought him

Yes you're right...but he played like a 31 YO with iffy legs

"Andriy has always been my first choice for Chelsea since I arrived," Mourinho said. "Before it was not possible, now it is for real. He has great qualities, ambition, discipline, tactical awareness and of course he is a great goalscorer.

[Fernando 6,374]

I still say Torres. 

Worst ever for everything he meant and everything he cost in terms of team being cater to him and managers cater to him.