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Tomo
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3 hours ago, Pizy said:

United may have several top quality signings sealed and delivered before we even actually bid on anyone. It’s like the reverse of last summer where we were doing business left and right and United fans were screaming bloody murder at their club for doing fuck all.

The CL win has done a lot to calm the concern but seeing other teams starting to drastically improve while we’re silent is annoying. United we’re always going to go big this summer so it’s not a shock. But I figured we’d attack the market for the few needs we have and get our business done swiftly. That’s clearly not happening.

Because last summer's window means we have a good enough team and most importantly coach to wait to the right signing. We're a lot better than the league position suggests as we showed by winning the UCL barely breaking sweat. 

United despite finishing above us need a lot more work, especially with Ole at the wheel, to even muster up anything resembling a challenge. With their coaching handicap they need world class DM, CB, RB, ST and GK.

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32 minutes ago, Blues Forever said:

We could bid £100m - £120m for Mbappe now and sign Haaland next summer for £65m. 🙃

We are not playing Manager mode in Fifa 20. And in Fifa 21, I have managed to get Haaland for £120m + Isak (£62 mil) 🤣. Jokes apart, Werner won't be sold and Mbappe will prefer Madrid next season than Chelsea this season. Moreover, we cannot afford two Marquee signing as it will destroy our wages structures. 

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12 minutes ago, Mana said:

No no...we really aren't. We may won the UCL, but there are still cracks especially going forward that seriously needs to be rectified.

If we take out the UCL final, our final run of games has been a disaster. We should have claimed top 4 at least a game to spare. We should have done better in the FA Cup final.

You can't just brush these things under the carpet because we won the UCL. We are very unlikely to retain the UCL next season because this squad just isn't good enough going forward.

We finished 4th because we had two months worth of relegation form when Lampard lost the plot.

Since Tuchel has came in we're 2nd on the form table, won a UCL without breaking sweat (very few win this thing without getting some rub of the green in a crucial moment, even the greatest ever were a better first touch from Bendtner away from going out) and won almost every big game alongside that.

If a genuine upgrade to what we've got (and also fits the system Tuchel is trying to implement) becomes available then by all means go for it, but signing for signings sake is what put us on the road of 4 years in a top four battle in the first place. Remember in January 2020 people here were in meltdowns because our rivals signed the likes of Bergwijn, Igahlo, Gedson and Pablo Mari? Imagine what a mess our squad would look like right now with those four in it.

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16 minutes ago, avrobsws said:

We are not playing Manager mode in Fifa 20. And in Fifa 21, I have managed to get Haaland for £120m + Isak (£62 mil) 🤣. Jokes apart, Werner won't be sold and Mbappe will prefer Madrid next season than Chelsea this season. Moreover, we cannot afford two Marquee signing as it will destroy our wages structures. 

I'm just joking, fully aware we can't afford both Mbappe and Haaland as they are 100% destroying our wages structures.

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5 hours ago, Jype said:

As long as a loan club pays for the full salary and covers the remaining amortisation value as a loan fee, it makes perfect sense to extend if the player was willing to do it.

Bakayoko right now has a year left on his contract so amortisation value of €8M for next year. If he were to extend it would go down to €4M a year for the next two years which means the player is "cheaper" on the club's books and it would be more probable to find a club that pays for the full costs during the loan and then hopefully the same club would then take up the option to buy next summer.

Surely the transfer market hasn't fully gotten over COVID yet and most clubs (especially Italian ones) still can't afford to pay a lot for players but perhaps next year they could. If the club think loan fee + future transfer fee is bigger than whatever next-to-nothing fee they could get for the player in these circumstances it's only smart business to try to renew the contract.  Bakayoko however doesn't seem too keen so it's up to the club to find a permanent new home for him this year.

A lot of if's mate but I see your point. Still just get rid, he is not exactly screaming quality with tons of clubs after him, and he rejected the offer anyway. Get rid.

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1 hour ago, Mana said:

No no...we really aren't. We may won the UCL, but there are still cracks especially going forward that seriously needs to be rectified.

If we take out the UCL final, our final run of games has been a disaster. We should have claimed top 4 at least a game to spare. We should have done better in the FA Cup final.

You can't just brush these things under the carpet because we won the UCL. We are very unlikely to retain the UCL next season because this squad just isn't good enough going forward.

Spot on. We are nowhere near challenging City over a 38 game season without serious investment in 2-3 positions. Never mind a much improved Liverpool and Man United. And then there’s Leicester who have already made 3 excellent signings and aren’t going anywhere.

We simply don’t have the clinical goal scoring in our side to compete for the title as we are currently constructed.

We may not need to plug as many holes as United do but the few holes we do have are much more glaring and important.

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19 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Spot on. We are nowhere near challenging City over a 38 game season without serious investment in 2-3 positions. Never mind a much improved Liverpool and Man United. And then there’s Leicester who have already made 3 excellent signings and aren’t going anywhere.

We simply don’t have the clinical goal scoring in our side to compete for the title as we are currently constructed.

We may not need to plug as many holes as United do but the few holes we do have are much more glaring and important.

If someone said in February we'll win the UCL going toe to toe with our opponents without relying on any real luck along away they'd have been laughed at, this a very very talented squad that was made to look poor by Frank's meltdown/unableness to fit the star signings into a system.

If we had a team of players with no (or a long distant) proven goal record I would agree (ie when Costa left and we only had Hazard) but we have a lot of scorers in our side who for many mitigating reason's all had poor season's at the same time. And the thing is, we don't even need one to improve by 20, we need all to improve by 5 on average which is very much doable.

The reality is we invested hundreds of millions into top class players who are a lot better then they looked/were made to look for most of last season and we've brought in one of the world's best coaches to find a way to get the best out of them, which I'm confident he will. If we're just going to keep throwing shit at the wall whenever signings don't hit the ground running we may aswell just get ourselves a man manager type manager.

Yes they "could" all carry on struggling but they on the flip side also "could" all have a Drogba esque 2nd/3rd season improvement now they're more settled into the country and are riding the UCL (and possibly for some the Euro's) wave.

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I don't think Haaland was ever realistic to begin with... I hope I'm proved wrong but I just don't see it happening... never have. 

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37 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Spot on. We are nowhere near challenging City over a 38 game season without serious investment in 2-3 positions. Never mind a much improved Liverpool and Man United. And then there’s Leicester who have already made 3 excellent signings and aren’t going anywhere.

We simply don’t have the clinical goal scoring in our side to compete for the title as we are currently constructed.

We may not need to plug as many holes as United do but the few holes we do have are much more glaring and important.

So who would you suggest then fills this clinical goal scorer position that we need?

Because beyond Haaland and Lewandowski (and maybe at a stretch Lukaku), I don't see a striker available on the market that looks a shoe-in to fill that void. 

So with that in mind, do we just buy someone for the sake of buying and hope they fill that void or do we take stock of what we already have at the club and assess whether we can get more out of what we have. 

Given his struggles last season it's easy to forget that Werner scored 28 goals in 34 games in the Bundesliga the season before. And whilst that was a 'banner' season for him, it was hardly a one off as the three seasons for Leipzig before that he had 50 goals in 93 games in the league. The players I mentioned before aside, that goal record in one of the top leagues is significantly better than anyone else on the market. I struggle to believe that Werner will have as bad a goal scoring year next season. His pace and willingness to make the runs almost guarantees chances will come his way.

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

If someone said in February we'll win the UCL going toe to toe with our opponents without relying on any real luck along away they'd have been laughed at, this a very very talented squad that was made to look poor by Frank's meltdown/unableness to fit the star signings into a system.

If we had a team of players with no (or a long distant) proven goal record I would agree (ie when Costa left and we only had Hazard) but we have a lot of scorers in our side who for many mitigating reason's all had poor season's at the same time. And the thing is, we don't even need one to improve by 20, we need all to improve by 5 on average which is very much doable.

The reality is we invested hundreds of millions into top class players who are a lot better then they looked/were made to look for most of last season and we've brought in one of the world's best coaches to find a way to get the best out of them, which I'm confident he will. If we're just going to keep throwing shit at the wall whenever signings don't hit the ground running we may aswell just get ourselves a man manager type manager.

Yes they "could" all carry on struggling but they on the flip side also "could" all have a Drogba esque 2nd/3rd season improvement now they're more settled into the country and are riding the UCL (and possibly for some the Euro's) wave.

Under Tuchel, we had a side that was set out tactically to excel in the biggest matches against the best opponents. Opponents who like to play football and allow space for our players to exploit. But as we saw time and again (and as we’ve seen for years now) there are loads of matches in the PL where we play deep sitting defenses or teams that set out solely to nullify and negate our attacking play. Or we create chance after chance only to not score and get sucker punched by some horrendous team. Don’t know what exactly changes if our personnel is the same.

If Werner returns to his Leipzig form that would indeed help and if Ziyech pulls his finger out and steps up that’s another huge bonus that would be like a new signing. But surely we can’t start a new season merely hoping that these things happen. If every one of our rivals also stood still and didn’t improve maybe. But they aren’t. They’re all going to be making massive signings.

51 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

So who would you suggest then fills this clinical goal scorer position that we need?

Because beyond Haaland and Lewandowski (and maybe at a stretch Lukaku), I don't see a striker available on the market that looks a shoe-in to fill that void. 

So with that in mind, do we just buy someone for the sake of buying and hope they fill that void or do we take stock of what we already have at the club and assess whether we can get more out of what we have. 

Given his struggles last season it's easy to forget that Werner scored 28 goals in 34 games in the Bundesliga the season before. And whilst that was a 'banner' season for him, it was hardly a one off as the three seasons for Leipzig before that he had 50 goals in 93 games in the league. The players I mentioned before aside, that goal record in one of the top leagues is significantly better than anyone else on the market. I struggle to believe that Werner will have as bad a goal scoring year next season. His pace and willingness to make the runs almost guarantees chances will come his way.

That’s the thing. We have to try to force the issue. With such limited options we have to at least go big at one of these strikers and make their clubs say no. If that fails then I think we scramble until the very end of the season desperate for 4th place again. Simple as that.

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Those who think we are fine with this attacking options are deluded. Simple as. Like they never saw our coach sacked 6 months after wining big trophy. The history will repeat itself, it seems

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2 hours ago, Pizy said:

Under Tuchel, we had a side that was set out tactically to excel in the biggest matches against the best opponents. Opponents who like to play football and allow space for our players to exploit. But as we saw time and again (and as we’ve seen for years now) there are loads of matches in the PL where we play deep sitting defenses or teams that set out solely to nullify and negate our attacking play. Or we create chance after chance only to not score and get sucker punched by some horrendous team. Don’t know what exactly changes if our personnel is the same.

If Werner returns to his Leipzig form that would indeed help and if Ziyech pulls his finger out and steps up that’s another huge bonus that would be like a new signing. But surely we can’t start a new season merely hoping that these things happen. If every one of our rivals also stood still and didn’t improve maybe. But they aren’t. They’re all going to be making massive signings.

That’s the thing. We have to try to force the issue. With such limited options we have to at least go big at one of these strikers and make their clubs say no. If that fails then I think we scramble until the very end of the season desperate for 4th place again. Simple as that.

If the title was won in the market we would have pissed the league last year. Yes there are some examples of a team having the best window going on to win the league largely because of that (us in 14, both times under Mou, City in 17) but there's also examples of it not working out the way it should (us last year, 2012 and 06, United 01, Arsenal 13, City 15 and 16 to name a few) and teams winning the league after underwhelming windows (United 06 and 10, Chelsea 09 and 16, Arsenal 03, Liverpool 19).

Also what striker is there that's a safe bet? We of all fans should know that that doesn't exist, infact if Havertz or Werner were still in Germany they'd probably be the two first two rolled of the tongue. What if we get one in, overhaul our entire style for him because he "guarantees goals" and he still struggles to score them, then what?

What if our new expensive striker struggles to score and Havertz and Werner suddenly can't stop? We'd have an expensive weight around our neck atleast temporarily and won't be able to drop him even if that's what is best for on form Timo and Kai.

If, buts and maybe's can work in both directions and it's hard to fully tell what's the right solution here but I'm struggling with the narrative/assumption that not a single one of our players will further improve next season (I mean if nothing else have we learned nothing from Rudiger and Christensen's resurgences? I remember saying last winter that the latter should get a chance to play with Mendy behind him and was laughed out of the room). If we were playing dogshit most weeks but getting by because we had someone like Aubameyang that will finish any half chance to get us undeserved points this place would be littered with posts (largely from many refusing to open their mind of the possibility of our current players improving) about how are luck is going to run out soon and we will start getting the bad results our performances deserve, so why can't that logic work in reverse?

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3 hours ago, Pizy said:

Under Tuchel, we had a side that was set out tactically to excel in the biggest matches against the best opponents. Opponents who like to play football and allow space for our players to exploit. But as we saw time and again (and as we’ve seen for years now) there are loads of matches in the PL where we play deep sitting defenses or teams that set out solely to nullify and negate our attacking play. Or we create chance after chance only to not score and get sucker punched by some horrendous team. Don’t know what exactly changes if our personnel is the same.

As you alluded to yourself, that issue was arguably more down to how Tuchel set us up against the smaller sides. Lest we forget, this team were still the same team that were able to score goals and put away the smaller teams under Lampard. His downfall was obviously the tactical and defensive side of things, which Tuchel has helped fix/improve. So, Tuchel needs to find the balance on how he has us play against the bigger sides vs the smaller sides. Maybe use the back 4 more instead or use more attacking personnel in some positions. This pre-season and early parts of the season might also give Tuchel more time to work on our attacking plays, attacking patterns etc. 

3 hours ago, Pizy said:

That’s the thing. We have to try to force the issue. With such limited options we have to at least go big at one of these strikers and make their clubs say no. If that fails then I think we scramble until the very end of the season desperate for 4th place again. Simple as that.

Are we really in a do-or-die situation if we don't get a striker this summer? I don't get this constant doom-and-gloom. I don't know if it's because people are used to us winning things every season in the past, used to having a team that's the finished article and hence don't have the patience but we should remember that this team are still relatively young mostly and have plenty of room for growth and improvement. There is still more to come from this current group of players. Yes, there are certain areas in the team that can be improved on but at the same, we are also not in a terrible situation like some have made it out to be if we don't sign this player or that player. 

If we can't get Haaland or Lukaku or whoever, then maybe the next best solution is to find a midfielder who scores goals and creates chances. Because right now, our midfielders are averse to passing the ball forward and can only score if it's from the penalty spot. We used to have midfielders who can score goals from open play - Lampard, Ballack, Essien etc. Heck, even Fabregas used to do it here and there for us, even when we played the back 3 under Conte, to go along with his chance creation. 

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