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17 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

En-nesyri is a terrible player IMO. at least from the 5 sevilla games i saw last season he was absolute pants in all of them. don't see anything outstanding about him. i dont eventhink he aerial ability will be anything specialin PL

he is the deffo last of those 3 for me

I do not like his zero assists

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1 minute ago, Vesper said:

Tuchel doesn't rate Tammy at all

the one major gripe i have with TT. His treatment of Tammy. Despite never being a big fan of Tammy, i think he is more useful than the odd stoppage time cameo TT affords him. Especially vs shit teams like Arsenal, Southamtpon or Leeds where we were held, he could have made a difference early on.

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3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Tuchel doesn't rate Tammy at all

Plans may have to change if we can't sell him and/or can't buy a suitable player. 

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1 hour ago, Pizy said:

Meh. If we wanted a poacher or strictly penalty box striker we’d just keep Tammy since that’s all he is.

We need someone who offers much more. DCL isn’t good enough for Chelsea and he isn’t scaring any of our rivals if we’re playing them.

Honestly, DCL is far from a poaches or tap-in merchant. He has brilliant hold up play, is brilliant in the air and also has pace. His game has evolved and he pretty much is a top all rounded striker. I probably would say he is the best header of the ball in the league in terms of providing a goalscoring threat. Allso can play on the shoulder and run past his defender.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

with Tammy and Giroud leaving, that is not going to happen

It would completely have to be on our terms firstly to let them leave. 

Like @Jas said, if our plans don't come to fruition then one may be retained. I'd personally prefer Tammy to stay and Tuchel to try and get the best out of him. However I'm fully aware of his contract situation and if a bid of £30-40m did come in for him then it would be difficult for us to turn it down. So I think Giroud would be the more likely to stay.

The other option is to find more of a stop gap option next season to not disrupt plans for the following summer. Perhaps promote Broja to the first team squad as an extra attacker? Or is there a veteran type that could be picked up cheap and fulfil a role similar to Giroud? 

What we don't want is to spend a fortune on a player who appears high risk before a ball is kicked and leaves us stuck with them if they flop, when better options may be available next summer.

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1 hour ago, Stats said:

Honestly, DCL is far from a poaches or tap-in merchant. He has brilliant hold up play, is brilliant in the air and also has pace. His game has evolved and he pretty much is a top all rounded striker. I probably would say he is the best header of the ball in the league in terms of providing a goalscoring threat. Allso can play on the shoulder and run past his defender.

yes, it makes you wonder if some of these people even watch other games

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4 hours ago, Pizy said:

I see you mention Calvert Lewin often here. You really think he’s good enough? I certainly don’t. I think Everton is his perfect level and he’d struggle with the weight of being at a big club as a massive money signing. He’s basically just a tap in merchant like Chicharito.

That’s not even taking into account the fact that even if we were interested Everton would demand £80m or more and he sure as shit ain’t worth near that.

Calvert-Lewin is a much better player than you're giving him credit for.

From what I've seen, his all round game is significantly better than Tammy and his aerial strength in particular would offer a different option.

The 'moving to a big club' question unfortunately is one of those that you just don't know until it happens.

My bigger concern would be that Everton don't need to sell him and quite frankly wouldn't want to. As a result you'd be looking at a transfer that would probably be £60-80m range which is simply too much for him at present.

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52 minutes ago, Vesper said:

yes, it makes you wonder if some of these people even watch other games

I watch plenty of other games, thanks. He’s a solid striker, nothing more. 
 

 

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14 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I watch plenty of other games, thanks. He’s a solid striker, nothing more. 
 

 

he is a far better striker than some on here make him out to be

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4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

he is a far better striker than some on here make him out to be

Hes decent but hardly outstanding.

Too streaky a player and have real doubts he will play at a higher level than Everton or as a back up CF for England.

He only scored 5 PL goals in the second half of the season for Everton despite playing virtually every week. Got 11 league goals in the first half of the season but 6 of them came in that purple patch in the first 4 PL games, 1 v Tottenham, 3 v WBA, 1 v Palace, 1 v Brighton, where he was scoring with everything he touched.

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4 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Hes decent but hardly outstanding.

Too streaky a player and have real doubts he will play at a higher level than Everton or as a back up CF for England.

He only scored 5 PL goals in the second half of the season for Everton despite playing virtually every week. Got 11 league goals in the first half of the season but 6 of them came in that purple patch in the first 4 PL games, 1 v Tottenham, 3 v WBA, 1 v Palace, 1 v Brighton, where he was scoring with everything he touched.

We are not going to pay the money Everton would demand for DCL anyway, and although I do rate him, he is certainly not worth £90-100m or anywhere remotely near that.

I think the same is quite likely going to happen with Traore and Wolves (not saying that would be a disaster for that deal to fall through).

I think this window has a fair amount of potential of not producing much. IF we do very little, we have very little hope of winning the league. I cannot see our current set-up, especially if we do lose Giroud and Tammy and do little to replace them as title challengers. We simply will lack the depth and production, barring some miracle turn-around from Werner and Ziyech and an almost unheard of stepping up of say, Broja.

A huge thing I am also worried about is that we may not be able to unload the insane amount of deadweight we have on the books. we also have the potential for real dressing room drama if all our 'out of favour with Tuchel' players stay and continue to be frozen out ad/or continue to become more unhappy and then, perhaps, disruptive.

 

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Found it funny tonight how a number of people told me that Lukaku's first touch and close control had greatly improved but then he went on to continue to display a first touch so bad it would've even made Jimmy Saville blush. 

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

We are not going to pay the money Everton would demand for DCL anyway, and although I do rate him, he is certainly not worth £90-100m or anywhere remotely near that.

I think the same is quite likely going to happen with Traore and Wolves (not saying that would be a disaster for that deal to fall through).

I think this window has a fair amount of potential of not producing much. IF we do very little, we have very little hope of winning the league. I cannot see our current set-up, especially if we do lose Giroud and Tammy and do little to replace them as title challengers. We simply will lack the depth and production, barring some miracle turn-around from Werner and Ziyech and an almost unheard of stepping up of say, Broja.

A huge thing I am also worried about is that we may not be able to unload the insane amount of deadweight we have on the books. we also have the potential for real dressing room drama if all our 'out of favour with Tuchel' players stay and continue to be frozen out ad/or continue to become more unhappy and then, perhaps, disruptive.

 

I wouldn't say it would be a miracle turn-around to see improvements in the likes of Werner and Ziyech next season.

In both cases they have produced in other leagues previously, and for a sustained period of time (i.e. not a one season wonder) which would give me some hope that such form can be replicated to some degree. Granted in Ziyech's case the Dutch league isn't the strongest, but he does have some good form in Europe over the same time.

I think that both can benefit from the previous season they've just experienced and I believe both should be afforded this coming season to judge them. Particularly with the return of fans into the stadium. 

Ziyech in particular has been almost completely written off by a lot of Chelsea fans but I do think he offers something completely different from the rest of our attacking options which is the ability and preference to drop a little deeper and find the pass. We question what we need to unlock some of the deeper defences of the 'lesser' sides in the league but I think Ziyech's skill set could help with that. He also isn't afraid to have a shot around the edge of the box which has been a source of irritation for me (the lack of players prepared to do so in our squad). 

Beyond players like Haaland and Mbappe, the other attacking options being suggested mostly have lesser numbers than the likes of Werner, Havertz and Ziyech were producing before they joined us, and who's to say that such players wouldn't need a similar time period to adjust to a new club, league, culture, etc. That's why for me it just seems to make sense to hold faith with what we already have rather than taking a punt on a new signing coming in and hitting the ground running, unless they are in that real top category of attacker.

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9 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I wouldn't say it would be a miracle turn-around to see improvements in the likes of Werner and Ziyech next season.

In both cases they have produced in other leagues previously, and for a sustained period of time (i.e. not a one season wonder) which would give me some hope that such form can be replicated to some degree. Granted in Ziyech's case the Dutch league isn't the strongest, but he does have some good form in Europe over the same time.

I think that both can benefit from the previous season they've just experienced and I believe both should be afforded this coming season to judge them. Particularly with the return of fans into the stadium. 

Ziyech in particular has been almost completely written off by a lot of Chelsea fans but I do think he offers something completely different from the rest of our attacking options which is the ability and preference to drop a little deeper and find the pass. We question what we need to unlock some of the deeper defences of the 'lesser' sides in the league but I think Ziyech's skill set could help with that. He also isn't afraid to have a shot around the edge of the box which has been a source of irritation for me (the lack of players prepared to do so in our squad). 

Beyond players like Haaland and Mbappe, the other attacking options being suggested mostly have lesser numbers than the likes of Werner, Havertz and Ziyech were producing before they joined us, and who's to say that such players wouldn't need a similar time period to adjust to a new club, league, culture, etc. That's why for me it just seems to make sense to hold faith with what we already have rather than taking a punt on a new signing coming in and hitting the ground running, unless they are in that real top category of attacker.

Ziyech's big numbers were in the absolute joke of a league in the Netherlands. As the years roll by, the less I am impressed with the Eredivisie products that now seem to make up 95% of what is coming out of it.

I never wanted him, said he was likely bad a buy and I deffo look like the right one versus all the hype. I think he is both weak and lazy. Bad combo. Plus he is far from a youth player, the bloke turns 29 this coming end of winter, so any sort of remotely big fee likely must be had this summer, as in summer 2022, a team is buying a player who turns 30 that same season. I would have a fit if we started buying 29, 30yos and signing them to big 4 or 5 year contracts.

The EPL is not some grandpa league, let him go till his garden in Serie A where a forward is routinely going against 32, 33, 34yo and older slow CB's. Very few CB's past 33, 34 can start and play to a high level in the EPL (it is often painful to watch Cahill trot around these days for Palace, for example), we are blessed with a genetic freak in Thiago.

I will be happy to eat theses words if he turns it around HERE, not in some donkey league.

 

old Serie A CB's who still start

 
Giorgio Chiellini (soon 37, a genetic freak like Thiago, but hardly a speed merchant)
Diego Godín 
Andrea Masiello  
Ragnar Klavan   
Leonardo Bonucci   
Stefan Radu (soon 35, and was a target of  a big transfer fight with INTER, but now has renewed with Lazio until he is 37, 38) 
Martín Cáceres 
Federico Fazio   
Sebastien De Maio   
Francesco Acerbi  (I still rate him) 
Kamil Glik   
Andrea Ranocchia  
Simon Kjaer (I still rate him)  
Maya Yoshida   
Chris Smalling  (soon 32, and was rinsed in terms of the EPL 2 years ago in Serie A he is a star at times)  

 

 

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How badly do you think Chelsea want Haaland?

Do you think they would be prepared to pay 20m more then the buyout and send him back to Dortmund on loan this season and sign a stopgap?

 

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7 hours ago, Vesper said:

Ziyech's big numbers were in the absolute joke of a league in the Netherlands. As the years roll by, the less I am impressed with the Eredivisie products that now seem to make up 95% of what is coming out of it.

I never wanted him, said he was likely bad a buy and I deffo look like the right one versus all the hype. I think he is both weak and lazy. Bad combo. Plus he is far from a youth player, the bloke turns 29 this coming end of winter, so any sort of remotely big fee likely must be had this summer, as in summer 2022, a team is buying a player who turns 30 that same season. I would have a fit if we started buying 29, 30yos and signing them to big 4 or 5 year contracts.

The EPL is not some grandpa league, let him go till his garden in Serie A where a forward is routinely going against 32, 33, 34yo and older slow CB's. Very few CB's past 33, 34 can start and play to a high level in the EPL (it is often painful to watch Cahill trot around these days for Palace, for example), we are blessed with a genetic freak in Thiago.

I will be happy to eat theses words if he turns it around HERE, not in some donkey league.

 

old Serie A CB's who still start

 
Giorgio Chiellini (soon 37, a genetic freak like Thiago, but hardly a speed merchant)
Diego Godín 
Andrea Masiello  
Ragnar Klavan   
Leonardo Bonucci   
Stefan Radu (soon 35, and was a target of  a big transfer fight with INTER, but now has renewed with Lazio until he is 37, 38) 
Martín Cáceres 
Federico Fazio   
Sebastien De Maio   
Francesco Acerbi  (I still rate him) 
Kamil Glik   
Andrea Ranocchia  
Simon Kjaer (I still rate him)  
Maya Yoshida   
Chris Smalling  (soon 32, and was rinsed in terms of the EPL 2 years ago in Serie A he is a star at times)  

 

 

As I said before, I agree with you on the Eredivisie. It's not the strongest of leagues, but Ziyech had also shown some good form over the last couple of seasons in Europe for Ajax.

I would like to see if there is an improvement in his game this season. His type of player can sometimes take time to adjust to the pace and intensity of the league, along with getting used to new team mates and how they operate, make runs, etc. Jorginho and Kovacic were much better off after their first season to adjust, adapting to less time on the ball and quicker reactions being needed. 

If he flops this season then we can look to move him on next summer. Even at 29 he'll still be desirable for some clubs on the continent. 

And I tend to agree with you regarding the Italian league. I think it's the weakest of the 'big' leagues and perfectly suits a number of older players. With that in mind, it also leaves me very wary of a big money move for someone in Italy, especially an attacker (Lukaku, Martinez, Vlahovic) when used to going up against a number of the players you've mentioned.

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57 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

As I said before, I agree with you on the Eredivisie. It's not the strongest of leagues, but Ziyech had also shown some good form over the last couple of seasons in Europe for Ajax.

I would like to see if there is an improvement in his game this season. His type of player can sometimes take time to adjust to the pace and intensity of the league, along with getting used to new team mates and how they operate, make runs, etc. Jorginho and Kovacic were much better off after their first season to adjust, adapting to less time on the ball and quicker reactions being needed. 

If he flops this season then we can look to move him on next summer. Even at 29 he'll still be desirable for some clubs on the continent. 

And I tend to agree with you regarding the Italian league. I think it's the weakest of the 'big' leagues and perfectly suits a number of older players. With that in mind, it also leaves me very wary of a big money move for someone in Italy, especially an attacker (Lukaku, Martinez, Vlahovic) when used to going up against a number of the players you've mentioned.

I love a tonne of Serie A players, but almost all are CB's, fullbacks, wingbacks, DMF's, and CMF's, very few AMF's and forwards. Vlahovic is the only exception atm.

 

If we are talking about not available atm players, there are 3 wingers in Serie A I rate (2 on Juve)

Chiesa ( a superb winger, top 10 on planet or damn close, and 5 players in front of him are all ageing, as Mane, Salah, Son, and Neymar are all 29yo (Son will be in 10 days) plus Messi will be 35yo in less than a year)

Kulusevski (a huge key if we (putting on my Sweden hat) are actually going to make a Euro finals run, only just turned 21yo, and will only get better IMHO)

Lozano (most available, plus the marketing revenue potential would be huge, we would have both the most popular USA and Mexican players, he had 15 goals, 5 assists in only 2600 minutes)

that is it for offensive Serie A players (as Nicolo Zaniolo blew the living shit out of his knee and I need to see two full seasons healthy from him, and back to form to become interested again, and Immobile is 32yo in February and I doubt will leave Lazio, unless it is for a MLS cash-in later on, plus he lives steps from Stadio Olimpico and is treated like a demigod in Rome, at least to a point, and a full-on god if he helps lead Italy to the Euro title).

551943fa0a759f61e485853ddb71086d.png

BTW, I do rate the hell out of Lukaku, I just think £100m or so is problematic for a player his age (he turns 29yo next spring) and build (that weight and bulk, which is now like carved granite, will slow him down when he hits 31, 32yo max, and his game is so dependent on explosive burst) and 3 or 4 years max peak is not worth £100m in my book, especially on the wages he will demand (at least £350-400K PW) which makes a deal for him cost closing in on £200m.. All for a player we decided was not good enough (and not at all a de Bruyne-style decision, Lukaku had a huge run-out period) years ago.

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