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2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf Costa was bashed a lot for how he did in our build up play at times haha but he scored goals and was able to occupy defenders physically. I think Haaland is maybe more in this mould than the likes of a Benzema or a Kane or a Firmino for instance who all drop in and link the play together a lot.

Haaland isn’t a bad player technically and its not like he cannot contribute towards the build up play but at the same time, look at the Aguero’s, Suarez’s, Kane’s, Benzema’s, Lukaku’s, Eto’o’s, Henry’s, Drogba’s etc past and present, they were all different profiles of players and all have been successful in their own rights as players. For this team, its about finding the right CF. I don’t think we need a CF who can link the play exceptionally well as we really need someone to score the goals. In and around the 18 yard box is the big big issue for us, if we stick someone in the team who you know is going to at least work the keeper or score with a half chance or a good chance, personally, couldnt care if he’s going to be the best build up player in the world or not.

This is maybe a bit off topic re Haaland for say but for me there is nothing more soul destroying than watching a striker come get the ball to feet constantly throughout a game. Its probably the easiest thing in the world to defend unless your Messi or you’ve got a Salah/Mane/Son who can get in to these sort of spaces left. You want them in and around the box or running in the channels etc mixing it up, trying to stretch teams. Harry Kane does it far too much at Spurs, more so after a good spell where hes got the assists to justify it but I mean how many came in the first half of the season, probably 75% of them? Even then if they work it well from him dropping deep, whos in the box to score the chances? He sure as hell isnt because he’s like 30-40m from the goal or arriving too late.

The point is, a striker leading the line should still be expected to contribute to the overall team's attacking play, a lot or not. There is a reason why a pure goal poacher, a striker who just stands inside the box to stick the ball in doesn't work anymore, certainly not at the highest level and at big clubs. IIRC, this was mentioned by others but a reason why we were probably able to create so many chances last season was because how we operated as a unit, how the attacking players were involved in the buildup play, interchanging positions, moving and dragging players out of position etc. Converting chances was of course the problem but that was down to individuals. Bringing someone like Haaland may help with the conversion but it'll also alter the way we play and the chances created may or may not decrease. Liverpool and City, for example, have shown that a team can thrive at the highest level without having a traditional #9 leading the line. 

P.S. There you go with the essay-esque reply again. 🤣

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12 minutes ago, Jas said:

The point is, a striker leading the line should still be expected to contribute to the overall team's attacking play, a lot or not. There is a reason why a pure goal poacher, a striker who just stands inside the box to stick the ball in doesn't work anymore, certainly not at the highest level and at big clubs. IIRC, this was mentioned by others but a reason why we were probably able to create so many chances last season was because how we operated as a unit, how the attacking players were involved in the buildup play, interchanging positions, moving and dragging players out of position etc. Converting chances was of course the problem but that was down to individuals. Bringing someone like Haaland may help with the conversion but it'll also alter the way we play and the chances created may or may not decrease. Liverpool and City, for example, have shown that a team can thrive at the highest level without having a traditional #9 leading the line. 

P.S. There you go with the essay-esque reply again. 🤣

Liverpool have three attackers that scored 260+ goals within the past 4 years. City won the league without a traditional #9 fair enough, but in context this was a pandemic season where they had no real competitors, and their conversation rate was far superior than ours. Particularly since we switched to a back 5. City are also looking to pursue Kane so it isn't as if they are head over heals continuing to not have a #9 in their team. 

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9 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Liverpool have three attackers that scored 260+ goals within the past 4 years. City won the league without a traditional #9 fair enough, but in context this was a pandemic season where they had no real competitors, and their conversation rate was far superior than ours. Particularly since we switched to a back 5. City are also looking to pursue Kane so it isn't as if they are head over heals continuing to not have a #9 in their team. 

Liverpool do have Salah and Mane to score the goals but the person leading their line - Firmino - is not a #9, is he? 

As for City, pandemic season or not, no one got close to them at all, just like in their past title winning seasons under Guardiola. They still scored goals and racked up wins (including a run of 15 consecutive league wins in a 19-game unbeaten run), again just like they did in their previous title winning seasons under Guardiola. 

Regarding Kane, one could argue that he's not much of a typical #9 these days considering his tendency to drop deep to link up play, create chances for others etc. He's more like a half 9, half 10 these days, which may explain why Guardiola is going after him given his tendency to not really play with a typical #9.

I know you aren't sold on our current attackers when it comes to converting chances but as demoralizing as seeing countless of chances being wasted last season, I don't know why people just assume that will remain the case forever with our attackers. I don't think it's absurd to think they would contribute at least 5-10 more goals next season (even more so when you look at past numbers of Havertz and Werner for example), given each of the attacker went through different problems last season.

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For me it is Håland or bust. If we do not get him, then roll with Tammy/Giroud we don't need anymore Batsh*t or Morata nonsense. 

 

At an absolute push, and this requires massive money rolling in for Tammy and a decent fee for Giroud (who I would keep regardless), maybe, go for Silva who has a reported €35m buyout. However, I am not even keen on that. I mean as I am writing this, I would say I may even prefer Giroud plus Broja and have Havertz play the false 9 all year. 

What we need to avoid is buying 'squad players'/'second options'. That shite has got us the likes of Sidwell, Boularouz, Drinky, Benayoun, Batsh*t, Zappa, Emerson etc down the years. No more of that nonsense please. 

Edited by King Kante
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2 hours ago, Jas said:

The point is, a striker leading the line should still be expected to contribute to the overall team's attacking play, a lot or not. There is a reason why a pure goal poacher, a striker who just stands inside the box to stick the ball in doesn't work anymore, certainly not at the highest level and at big clubs. IIRC, this was mentioned by others but a reason why we were probably able to create so many chances last season was because how we operated as a unit, how the attacking players were involved in the buildup play, interchanging positions, moving and dragging players out of position etc. Converting chances was of course the problem but that was down to individuals. Bringing someone like Haaland may help with the conversion but it'll also alter the way we play and the chances created may or may not decrease. Liverpool and City, for example, have shown that a team can thrive at the highest level without having a traditional #9 leading the line. 

P.S. There you go with the essay-esque reply again. 🤣

Haaland’s got the technical ability and time to improve his back to goal play but our biggest issue has been a lack of players in and around the box and conversion rates. I mean is Haalands hold up and link up play even that bad? Its not perfect but hardly poor either.

Haaland is clinical in the box and ultimately he’s more likely to go away from the ball than come to it a lot which opens up spaces for the other attacking players to operate in. Very similar to Costa for us with Jose and Conte. Haaland could end up leaving more spaces for Mount, Werner, Ziyech etc in between the lines by looking to get in behind teams meaning the CBs drop/follow him.

I mean you’ve backed Werner for a full season and now you don’t(?) want Haaland? Or are doubting what he would bring to the team? 👀

City and Liverpool are different examples because they have wide 2 players who come run in behind teams to get in the box without fail. Whilst its admirable, don’t forget people have criticised Liverpool and Firmino for not scoring goals (especially this season). City wouldn’t be trying to sign Kane or linked with Haaland if Pep didn’t think they needed a proper number 9, or else they would of kept going the way they did likely and offered Aguero an extension to be a back up. 

Yep got carried away here and there… 😂

 

Edited by OneMoSalah
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11 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Haaland’s got the technical ability and time to improve his back to goal play but our biggest issue has been a lack of players in and around the box and conversion rates. I mean is Haalands hold up and link up play even that bad? Its not perfect but hardly poor either.

Haaland is clinical in the box and ultimately he’s more likely to go away from the ball than come to it a lot which opens up spaces for the other attacking players to operate in. Very similar to Costa for us with Jose and Conte. Haaland could end up leaving more spaces for Mount, Werner, Ziyech etc in between the lines by looking to get in behind teams meaning the CBs drop/follow him.

Where did I say Haaland is bad? I was simply disagreeing with MoroccanBlue’s point about the striker not needing to be part of our buildup play and that the striker getting involved in the buildup play was the cause of our poor conversion rate last season.

And getting players in and around the box wasn’t a problem last season. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have got to miss so many chances!

11 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

City and Liverpool are different examples because they have wide 2 players who come run in behind teams to get in the box without fail. Whilst its admirable, don’t forget people have criticised Liverpool and Firmino for not scoring goals (especially this season). City wouldn’t be trying to sign Kane or linked with Haaland if Pep didn’t think they needed a proper number 9, or else they would of kept going the way they did likely and offered Aguero an extension to be a back up. 

People only criticized Firmino for not scoring goals last season because Mane’s goals suddenly dried up. No one said anything when Mane and Salah were plundering goals in the seasons before last.

As for Kane…

1 hour ago, Jas said:

Regarding Kane, one could argue that he's not much of a typical #9 these days considering his tendency to drop deep to link up play, create chances for others etc. He's more like a half 9, half 10 these days, which may explain why Guardiola is going after him given his tendency to not really play with a typical #9.

 

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8 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

 

That makes it sound like he's not a priority target for us, and only really an attractive option if it allows us to move players on to Inter that we no longer want.

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19 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

 

Unless we're planning on pulling a Willian on PSG like we did Spuds, no it doesn't. Romano is the only Twit person I listen to. 

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55 minutes ago, Jas said:

Where did I say Haaland is bad? I was simply disagreeing with MoroccanBlue’s point about the striker not needing to be part of our buildup play and that the striker getting involved in the buildup play was the cause of our poor conversion rate last season.

And getting players in and around the box wasn’t a problem last season. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have got to miss so many chances!

People only criticized Firmino for not scoring goals last season because Mane’s goals suddenly dried up. No one said anything when Mane and Salah were plundering goals in the seasons before last.

As for Kane…

 

Mane’s goals dried up which is why having a natural CF in and around the box is better no? Liverpool still created chances just lacked someone to put them in the net because Firmino was probably positioned more as a number 10.

Kane wont really need to drop deep at City though as often to the extent he does for Spurs. Obviously he will do his bit and that, more than Aguero or Jesus but I mean why would he need to do it as often when creative players like Foden, de Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan etc are going to be there and putting chances on a plate for him? It would be baffling if he did it as frequently as at Spurs in that team. Spurs were lacking creativity in midfield to get Son and Bale in behind teams which probably contributed to why Kane dropped deep on top of Mourinho’s approach. And even then he did it for god knows how long after their good start with Jose (most of his assists came in the first half of the season IIRC, 10 of the 14 before December. 4 alone v Southampton where they played that suicide high line which is one of the stupidest defensive performances I think I have ever seen) and all it really did was take away from Spur’s attacking play (also Mourinho's set up didn’t help but I mean how you meant to go a bit longer/over the top if your CF is playing as a number 10 in his own half?) 

I get a CF has to be of a decent standard at linking up the play but the likes of Haaland etc we aren’t talking League 2 levels here. Most of these top CFs/options we will look at will probably all play in fairly good teams where they need to do more than just score goals. Its almost a prerequisite now a days for strikers. So if they are very good at it or average at it, as long as they score goals regularly, that will be more important. 100%.

and another essay 🤪🤣

Edited by OneMoSalah
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Sounds like like we tentatively sniffed around Hakimi and tried to tempt Inter with one of our players but they aren’t really feeling it. PSG look to be much more serious and will stump up the cash in the end to get him. Don’t think we were ever going to spend 70-80m on a wingback. It was only a possibility for us if Alonso or Emerson was a sweetener to lower the price.

Adama it is, I guess.

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4 hours ago, King Kante said:

For me it is Håland or bust. If we do not get him, then roll with Tammy/Giroud we don't need anymore Batsh*t or Morata nonsense. 

 

At an absolute push, and this requires massive money rolling in for Tammy and a decent fee for Giroud (who I would keep regardless), maybe, go for Silva who has a reported €35m buyout. However, I am not even keen on that. I mean as I am writing this, I would say I may even prefer Giroud plus Broja and have Havertz play the false 9 all year. 

What we need to avoid is buying 'squad players'/'second options'. That shite has got us the likes of Sidwell, Boularouz, Drinky, Benayoun, Batsh*t, Zappa, Emerson etc down the years. No more of that nonsense please. 

Everything that has come out in recent weeks seem to point to Tuchel wanting his first choice targets or nothing, which is music to my ears.

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2 hours ago, Blues Forever said:

PSG could increase their bid to €75m with add ons included.

I think, it's better to focus on other alternatives and Haaland mainly.  City are coughing up for both Kane and Haaland, if this is true then we need to act first.

https://www.si.com/soccer/manchestercity/transfer-rumours/man-city-ready-to-pay-over-200m-for-two-strikers-this-summer-pep-guardiola-asks-chairman-for-duo
 

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6 hours ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

 

Expected unfortunately watch us pay 30 or something for that complete fraud at Wolves.

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Would be funny if we do not get Haaland and Hakimi lol. Tuchel probably furious then. He hates it when he does not get his wish transfers

Edited by killer1257
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7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Mane’s goals dried up which is why having a natural CF in and around the box is better no? Liverpool still created chances just lacked someone to put them in the net because Firmino was probably positioned more as a number 10.

I don't see what Mane's goals drying up has to do with having a CF or not when that approach has worked for Liverpool under Klopp. It just so happened that Mane suddenly had an average season - in a pandemic season no less - and it's also why Klopp bought another option in Jota but he got injured and missed out for several months.

7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Kane wont really need to drop deep at City though as often to the extent he does for Spurs. Obviously he will do his bit and that, more than Aguero or Jesus but I mean why would he need to do it as often when creative players like Foden, de Bruyne, Bernardo Silva, Gundogan etc are going to be there and putting chances on a plate for him? It would be baffling if he did it as frequently as at Spurs in that team. Spurs were lacking creativity in midfield to get Son and Bale in behind teams which probably contributed to why Kane dropped deep on top of Mourinho’s approach. And even then he did it for god knows how long after their good start with Jose (most of his assists came in the first half of the season IIRC, 10 of the 14 before December. 4 alone v Southampton where they played that suicide high line which is one of the stupidest defensive performances I think I have ever seen) and all it really did was take away from Spur’s attacking play (also Mourinho's set up didn’t help but I mean how you meant to go a bit longer/over the top if your CF is playing as a number 10 in his own half?) 

Maybe Kane won't need to drop so deep but it's still known that Guardiola tends to like someone who can drop deep, link up play, create chances for others etc to have that fluidity going forward as opposed to someone just sticking around the box waiting for the ball to come.

7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

I get a CF has to be of a decent standard at linking up the play but the likes of Haaland etc we aren’t talking League 2 levels here. Most of these top CFs/options we will look at will probably all play in fairly good teams where they need to do more than just score goals. Its almost a prerequisite now a days for strikers. So if they are very good at it or average at it, as long as they score goals regularly, that will be more important. 100%.

Missing the point again...

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