Super Frank Thread

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Think it is the manner of how the team was set up to play that has made the fans angry, rather than the result. It really was a coward display, a reminiscence of JM Mk II, a packed midfield, a creative no. 10 played on the wing, another midfielder on the other just to track back - everything to try to nullify Liverpool's strenghts, rather than imposing our own game. This is not good enough for a club of this calibre playing at home.

Some say it’s cowardice, some argue it’s pragmatic and being adaptive, each to their own.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Like you said Pep only go to a club that have his type of players, what about Frank? Of course we can evaluate his work, which is not so bad without the players he wants, fair?

That is you. Apologies if I am expecting a little more from Lampard, even with some players missing, especially when this is his second season. 

Agree to disagree.

[Puliiszola 519]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

Guardiola somewhat had the benefit of most of his current attackers were already at the club when he took over. But anyway, it is not like we haven't spent money ourselves either.

As for him not having a problem like Kepa, well Claudio Bravo says hello. 

Bravo was his buy. He had Joe Hart. Also bravo was not a record signing whose exclusion from team sheet would have massive repurcussions with the club having to take losses to the tune of 50m to get him off. 

Also since you got Klopp in the previous argument, do u know the positions and the goals his team conceded in his first 2.5 years at the club? 8th, 4th and 4th.

And here we have people (not you), saying the manager is indefensible after 1 transfer ban season where we also lost the PL's best player, and 2 games where we don't have half the players that would be in the starting 11. 

Compared to that, has not FL over acheived?

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

That is you. Apologies if I am expecting a little more from Lampard, even with some players missing, especially when this is his second season. 
Agree to disagree.

Second season or not we’re still having the same team despite spent 200m because they’re not available yet. Werner is a plus no doubt, Kai is adapting, and we’re missing Pulisic and Willian. Like it or not Willian was pretty important for our buildup plays last season. For 2 games only there’s no need to be reactionary.

Agree to disagree.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Puliiszola said:

Bravo was his buy. He had Joe Hart. Also bravo was not a record signing whose exclusion from team sheet would have massive repurcussions with the club having to take losses to the tune of 50m to get him off.

Fair point but the fee issue aside, Bravo was a problem for them and Guardiola was ruthless enough to just ditch him altogether. With Kepa, we might suffer some repercussions in terms of losses but if we want to succeed, then we need to be ruthless and bin him off.

4 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Also since you got Klopp in the previous argument, do u know the positions and the goals his team conceded in his first 2.5 years at the club? 8th, 4th and 4th.

Yes, I am aware of that but mind you, am not calling for Lampard's head. Merely only judging his work at the club so far.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

For 2 games only there’s no need to be reactionary.

Yup, agree to disagree indeed...

[Ryan Fong 2,776]

Yup, agree to disagree indeed...

Hahahaha! I know I know, a season and 2 games, ok?

[Azul 1,615]

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

[OneMoSalah 8,614]

50 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

That’s exactly what I’m talking about, I don’t think he’s trying to change the style “in big picture” like you all said, for this game can you fault him for being pragmatic knowing the fact that they’re the champion of last year with full squad and we’re missing players? He twitched the tactic to a certain difficult game you say he doesn’t have a philosophy, he kept using the same tactic you say he’s stubborn, I dunno how you fans can be pleased really.

The thing is regardless of yesterday the playing style isnt obvious to see, weve spent almost all of 2020 watching the ball go out wide slowly and getting pumped into the box by either Azpi, James or Alonso. When there is about 2 players in the box. Other than that or let Pulisic dribble and do something we were predictable. Even going wide and cross aimlessly and poorly, predictable. 

Now for yesterday, yes he went more pragmatic and I did wonder after last season if he had it in him because we were too top heavy in games but when you get the ball you’ve got to have a clear idea what your team is going to do in those moments you counter attack. We didnt. Okay the plan was kick it aimlessly for Werner to run onto or hope Havertz will do something. No real coordination or pattern of play that indicates any sort of style for me. Just relying on individual qualities not any teamwork or coached movements. It Werner didnt play 2 of the chances dont happen (his shot first half and the penalty). It was his individual quality as opposed to any outstanding play. 

Also Frank totally went against what he was implementing the first 6 months of last season and it has to be down to he didnt believe we were going to be good enough to beat Liverpool playing how he wants us to play on the day, even missing some players that 11 consisted of majority of players who played regularly last season, which if thats the case he shouldn’t be trying to get us to play that way. If this was Mourinho or Conte after spending 200m it would be a meltdown. Even if these players weren’t all available. Its very inexcusable. If it was due to unluckiness we lost or didnt do anything offensively, yes different story but the only positive from that game was Timo’s individual quality and Tomori’s performance which makes me wonder why he marginalised his minutes last season when we struggled defensively? 

[Strike 6,961]

24 minutes ago, Azul said:

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

Yep. Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

[Jase 43,479]

15 minutes ago, Strike said:

Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

[killer1257 3,282]

All I want is Lampard to finally find his formation and playstyle in the next three games. If he's still going for fluidity in tactics and formation then I'll start to get seriously worried.

If all of our signings are fit and available, we will start seeing our new formation, but Chilwell was injured 3 months, Ziyech two or three weeks and Pulisic almost 6 weeks.
Even that will take more time til they are match fit. We can only expect from Silva more than the other players because he has been fit at least.

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[Blue Armour 4,164]

4 hours ago, Jason said:

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

It wasn't as bad as the game at City but it was still close to it. I shall say no more though...

[Fernando 6,376]

13 hours ago, Mana said:

I don't think anyone here is saying "Sack Lampard!!!" However for me personally, the writing's on the wall.

Bar a small handful of matches last season, I haven't been really impressed with Lampard's tactics and team selection.

People told me that things will change this season and last season should be a "free pass".  So far, nothing has changed.

Lampard is stubborn, I can only look at his goalkeeping choice to know that he is. People argue Willy is slightly worse, but Willy didn't disrespect a coach when he was asked to sub off. And I'm sure Willy will not pull a feck up like Kepa did for the second Liverpool goal. It amazes me how Kepa is still #1, when he has done near feck all since that Carabao Cup final.

Lampard-defenders are leeching on to "Ziyech, Chilwell, Silva etc haven't played!" now. Okay, if they were all playing and we still look shite...then what? Because it's very possible. What's the next excuse? Give him time? Everton didn't need time! They got a new midfield and James and they are looking better already!

What's so special about Lampard except he's a club legend? His time at Derby wasn't all that great.

He changed their footballing style ok, but the defense was shite and that cost Derby their return to the PL. I really wanted Lampard to stay in Derby and prove himself. Him coming to Chelsea this early in his career rubbed me the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a dream for Lampard to lift big trophies as a Chelsea coach. But we need to split dream from reality. 

You have a point and I feel you, but after 2 games in the new season? 

For real? 

There's no point in taking things serious now as every season the same thing happens. Some teams start amazing and fall apart, some start bad and improve. Others bad and continue to be bad. 

But anyone not learning from the past is just ignoring that nothing is to be taking serious at the beginning. It's just the news paper that have to hype things up to sell stuff. 

But everyone should know is that by November-December time frame is when we know the real deal of the sustainability of the club for that season. 

Hence my point is to wait and see how we are doing by November. 

Edit: For the record if by November-December we still doing the same shenanigans then I would want us to get Nagelsmann. And if we can't get him in December then no point sacking Lampard mid season, wait to finish the season and next season get Nagelsmann. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

32 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, tbf they resorted to an extreme level of conservative football.

Conte's 'sufferball' tactics against City away from the first minute till the last, in his second season, were just vomit inducing. 

Yesterdays game was nowhere near that bad. 

That is true but we had bigger howlers last season imo, numerous ones that made us look like utter baffoons.

And please folks stop comparing klopp/Pep to FL. Both were winners before they came here, both have certain style, they developed teams/players.....its not comparable at all imo.

[Unionjack 7,531]

Are we going to have any more Sheff Utds? Please say no cause Im not sure/

[Azul 1,615]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Yep. Fluidity in tactics and formation usually works when there is an established way of playing in the first place

Exactly he doesn't even have a playstyle, and this is his second season! Let's just hope he finds it as soon as possible and our players adapt very quickly.