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I can't actually believe how well coached we are. Puts it in further perspective when you see the garbage United and Arsenal are spewing. I love the fact Frank isn't so stubborn to try and do it

Very confused, can only assume the ones being somewhat negative did not watch the game? Aside from Dave and Zouma, I thought we played really well against the European Champions. I was shocked at time

Our pressing game was superb, and made all the difference today! 4-3-3 with Mount and Havertz to harass opponents and Kante to sweep up behind...that's the way to go. And we have two bombing

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Attack was not great, but at this point it's important to improve defense and that we did. 

Attack will come later once everyone is fit and more time to work together. 

I still think we are in pre season mode so expect freak results. 

My timeline continues to be November, I will have a better understanding of this team by then. 

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2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

International break. 

Honestly baffling this is happening. So not only do we have to worry about no injuries, we have to worry no one contracts Covid-19. 

Its fucking BS, nothing more than greedy cunts.

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18 hours ago, Vesper said:

Will Abramovich give Lampard time to build a squad like Klopp and Guardiola?

https://theathletic.com/2104345/2020/10/02/lampard-abramovich-sack-marina-chelsea/

GettyImages-1276827389-scaled-e1601572008558-1024x681.jpg

Not good enough. Tactically naive. Time to go. These were just some of the sentiments expressed by supporters about Chelsea coach Frank Lampard following their Carabao Cup exit to Tottenham.

The level of vitriol from sections of the fanbase was surprising. Nobody would suggest it has been a good opening to the season, but the progress and promise of what happened in Lampard’s 2019-20 debut campaign seems to have already been forgotten or discounted. There is only one opinion which truly counts at Stamford Bridge and that is obviously what the hierarchy, most notably owner Roman Abramovich, thinks. History shows patience is not a virtue in the blue corner of west London when things are going awry.

But Chelsea are not only just five games into 2020-21, but Lampard’s plans for the squad are also in their infancy too. One transfer window, even if over £200 million has been spent in bringing seven new players through the door, isn’t going to fix the malaise that was allowed to develop long before the former Chelsea midfielder returned as head coach.

Between 2015-19, Chelsea spent more than £650 million on 29 players. Having three different managers — Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte and Maurizio Sarri — come and go in that time before Lampard took over meant the squad was always going to be subject to a lot of change. The vast majority of those 29 have now left, either permanently or on loan. Of the 11 remaining, only N’Golo Kante, Christian Pulisic and Mateo Kovacic can feel confident they are part of Lampard’s long-term thinking.

Players such as Jorginho, Emerson, Marcos Alonso and Kepa Arrizabalaga have had game time, but Chelsea are prepared to listen to offers for all four before the window shuts on Monday. Veterans Willy Caballero and Olivier Giroud have featured too, however their ages mean this is surely their last season at the club.

In other words, before this summer’s exciting splurge on Hakim Ziyech, Timo Werner and Kai Havertz, Chelsea haven’t recruited very well. They failed to capitalise on winning the title in 2015 and 2017 by strengthening with great quality. It made the transfer ban of last year an even bigger blow, especially for Lampard as he couldn’t make the kind of changes any new appointment in the dugout would want.

There is an element of luck when it comes to recruitment. No one can ever be 100 per cent sure that a signing will work out. There was understandable optimism, for example, about Alvaro Morata’s arrival in 2017. He had shown ability at Juventus and Real Madrid, yet simply failed to cope with the pressure of being Chelsea’s front man, and was not helped by a niggling back injury.

But a lot of cash has been frittered away on players such as Davide Zappacosta, Baba Rahman (a knee injury didn’t help him either), Michy Batshuayi and Emerson. They’re obviously not terrible footballers, but hardly the kind you need to compete for the Premier League or Champions League every year.

Tiemoue Bakayoko and Danny Drinkwater didn’t exactly set the pulses racing after being bought for a combined £75 million in 2017. They have just 29 Premier League starts for Chelsea between them and it’s over two years since either appeared in the first team of a club now back in the unenviable position of frantically trying to offload them ahead of Monday night’s transfer deadline.

A manager will always have to take responsibility for bad results and inevitably pay the price for when things go wrong. Lampard knows this. But Chelsea were never going to be a quick fix, no matter who was in the dugout, because of mistakes made in the past.

Chelsea’s decline as a major force in the game is borne out by their failure to get past the Champions League’s last 16 since their run to the semi-finals in the 2013-14 season. Reaching the last four of that competition used to be commonplace — they got that far on seven occasions between 2004-2014 and went on to make two finals, including lifting the trophy in 2012.

When Lampard held talks with Werner and Havertz about joining Chelsea, he talked to them about a three-year project to get the side back to challenging for the biggest trophies on a regular basis, a view he’s bound to have also shared with the board. It is encouraging he has been backed to such an extent and notable that the top brass granted his request for a new goalkeeper. But with that comes much greater expectations.

One of the accusations being labelled at Lampard from fans and pundits is that there haven’t been many signs of improvement so far. It is hardly a surprise considering the new arrivals have just 12 starts between them in all competitions, with Ziyech not featuring at all yet because of a knee problem while another important squad member in Pulisic has also not played a game because of a hamstring injury.

On top of that, this isn’t “Lampard’s squad” yet. There will be players the Englishman inherited that he doesn’t see adapting to his way of thinking or right attitude, let alone his style of play. The Athletic has been informed the atmosphere is a bit tense at the moment because there are a few individuals who are angling for a move and/or frustrated about not being involved enough. An indication of this came in the aftermath of Saturday’s draw with West Bromwich Albion and Marcos Alonso’s lack of discipline.

It is going to take more than one window for Lampard to address all of this and an inevitable question the powers-that-be at Chelsea will face should negative results continue is how long are they prepared to wait? But they only have to look at some of their Premier League rivals to see the rewards that can come if you’re patient.

Take Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp, for example. They are a formidable force now, but a lot of work was involved to get here. A glance at the league positions alone show that after Klopp arrived in October 2015, the team finished eighth, then fourth in each of the following two years before mounting a very strong title bid in 2018-19 (finished one point behind Manchester City) and winning the Champions League final. Arguably the ultimate goal, being crowned champions for the first time since 1990, came this summer after a dominant year at the top of the table.

It wasn’t just about incomings, like the arrivals of Sadio Mane in 2016, Mohamed Salah a year later and Virgil van Dijk and Alisson in 2018. During Klopp’s first pre-season tour, defender Mamadou Sakho was sent home from the USA for missing treatment sessions, being late for a team meal and also for the flight over there. The France international never played for the club again, and it sent a message to the group that the coach wouldn’t tolerate any indiscipline.

Like Chelsea are now, Liverpool were struggling defensively at that time. Centre-half Martin Skrtel and full-back Jose Enrique went through the Anfield exit door too. Two strikers inherited from Brendan Rodgers who didn’t meet Klopp’s requirements, Christian Benteke and Mario Balotelli, were also moved on.

As has been well documented, the decision to sell Philippe Coutinho to Barcelona in January 2018, meant they could make the key acquisitions of Van Dijk and Alisson that year. But it wasn’t just about the money the Brazilian forward brought in to fund these transfers — Klopp is very passionate about unity, so it never sat well with him trying to make someone stay who didn’t want to be there.

Pep Guardiola experienced teething problems on joining Manchester City in 2016, as the rather underwhelming third-place finish in his debut season demonstrated. He came under a lot of criticism, but then won back-to-back Premier League titles in his second and third years.

The former Barcelona and Bayern Munich coach showed his biggest ruthlessness in the goalkeeping department, something Lampard can relate to having just brought in Edouard Mendy to effectively start ahead of Kepa Arrizabalaga, who the club had made the most expensive player ever at the position just two years ago.

Guardiola wanted a ball-playing goalkeeper at Manchester City from the outset. He had a meeting with Joe Hart but the long-time England No 1 didn’t really show any interest in changing his game, so his career there was over. He spent two seasons out on loan until his contract expired. Claudio Bravo arrived from Barcelona to take over, but after struggling in English football, Ederson was bought the next summer to replace the replacement.

Having City’s riches obviously helped in the market and other important players in Kyle Walker, Gabriel Jesus, Aymeric Laporte, Bernardo Silva, Leroy Sane and John Stones all arrived within the first 18 months under Guardiola.

There were issues between Guardiola and key midfielder Yaya Toure from a very early stage. Toure wasn’t ignored completely over Guardiola’s first two seasons, as his total of 48 appearances shows, but he was gradually phased out and played little part in the 2017-18 title triumph before leaving for Olympiakos.

Mauricio Pochettino has no silverware to show for the five years he spent managing Tottenham, however no one can dispute he took the club to another level. His first campaign saw Spurs finish fifth, then they had two good attempts at becoming champions only to end up third behind Leicester in 2016 and runners-up to Chelsea a year later. There was also the very notable achievement of getting to last year’s Champions League final.

The Argentinian showed a ruthless streak too.

Aaron Lennon and Emmanuel Adebayor weren’t given squad numbers for the start of the 2015-16 season and soon left for Everton and Crystal Palace respectively. There were other members of what has been referred to as the “bomb squad” who Pochettino got rid of 12 months after joining from Southampton — Benoit Assou-Ekotto, Younes Kaboul and Etienne Capoue. They were joined by Andros Townsend, who paid the price for having an on-pitch row with club fitness coach Nathan Gardiner and was sold to Newcastle. Pochettino made it clear that you were expendable unless a player was 100 per cent committed to his methods.

These departures made room for Harry Kane, Eric Dier, Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb to become regulars — although the latter also ended up as a fringe figure after a falling-out with Pochettino, got loaned out for 2016-17 then was sold that summer.

It may be stating the obvious to highlight managers making changes, because everyone does. But Lampard will surely believe he shouldn’t be judged until he has had an opportunity to make the Chelsea squad more closely mirror what he wants.

The problem is, many of those who have been sacked from his position by Abramovich felt exactly the same way.

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

Did barca or bvb know it too?

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2 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Did barca or bvb know it too?

Dortmund were in financial trouble back then and had to be built back up. They weren't at the level that they are now. So they could obviously take a punt on a relatively unknown Klopp back then.

For Guardiola-Barcelona, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it definitely helps when he had the best player in the world. And just because it worked for him, it doesn't mean it'll work with others.

In any case, that isn't the comparison argument used by The Athletic, is it? I simply disagree with what they said. 

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Dortmund were in financial trouble back then and had to be built back up. They weren't at the level that they are now. So they could obviously take a punt on a relatively unknown Klopp back then.

For Guardiola-Barcelona, I don't necessarily disagree with you but it definitely helps when he had the best player in the world. And just because it worked for him, it doesn't mean it'll work with others.

In any case, that isn't the comparison argument used by The Athletic, is it? I simply disagree with what they said. 

You said that pep and Klopp were established manager hence given time. I am giving you proof to the contrary, that taking a punt on an unproven manager can/has/will work. 

What did we get by trusting "proven" managers like sarri. Conte gave us a league title but at what cost, left us with alonsos, emersons, bakayokos, moratas. Jose got us a league title at what cost/? Kdb, salah. 

I think it's high time we realise that instant gratification ever hardly develops into a stable and long term success. Like most of the long term success stories, we will have to pay our due. So far FL has shown worth the trust, be it with our 4th position finish (when no one expected us in top 6), with his transfer targets and dealings, or general play

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Just now, Puliiszola said:

You said that pep and Klopp were established manager hence given time. I am giving you proof to the contrary, that taking a punt on an unproven manager can/has/will work. 

What did we get by trusting "proven" managers like sarri. Conte gave us a league title but at what cost, left us with alonsos, emersons, bakayokos, moratas. Jose got us a league title at what cost/? Kdb, salah. 

I think it's high time we realise that instant gratification ever hardly develops into a stable and long term success. Like most of the long term success stories, we will have to pay our due. So far FL has shown worth the trust, be it with our 4th position finish (when no one expected us in top 6), with his transfer targets and dealings, or general play

Firstly, I do not know why you and maybe even some others are so sensitive to any negative thing said against Lampard that you must respond immediately. Why? Is it a crime?

Secondly, I wasn't even criticizing Lampard. I was merely disagreeing with the points Simon Johnson used in his piece and given he used the Klopp-Liverpool and Guardiola-Man City comparison as opposed to say what you mentioned - Klopp-Dortmund and Guardiola-Barcelona - was I wrong in stating the facts above? And given the kind of reputation The Athletic have built and the access that their journalists have, I was expecting more from them than putting out arguments that can be found elsewhere on the internet. 

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

Firstly, I do not know why you and maybe even some others are so sensitive to any negative thing said against Lampard that you must respond immediately. Why? Is it a crime?

Secondly, I wasn't even criticizing Lampard. I was merely disagreeing with the points Simon Johnson used in his piece and given he used the Klopp-Liverpool and Guardiola-Man City comparison as opposed to say what you mentioned - Klopp-Dortmund and Guardiola-Barcelona - was I wrong in stating the facts above? And given the kind of reputation The Athletic have built and the access that their journalists have, I was expecting more from them than putting out arguments that can be found elsewhere on the internet. 

How is it sensitive? If all or most you post is negative, then the few who are pro-FL will simply defend it. 

The article is well written and well articulated starting with how much stick FL is getting by fanbase, how much shit his predecessors were. He has a LOT of valid points. The comparison with pep and Klopp was not literal. It was just an example of having patience. As well might have used SAF at United (how mant years did it take for him to win his first title) or Wenger at arsenal. It was simple saying "Rome was not built in a day". Maybe FL does not deserve as much leeway as Klopp (his team was shit until he hit gold with vvd). But he sure as hell deserves far more than what we have been giving him. It seems he is on "thin ice" with the fans which is utterly ridiculous given that we massively over acheived last season, had one of the best transfer windows since 2004, and are generally looking to be on an upward trajectory. 

So obviously you can write whatever you want regarding FL, it's definitely not a crime. But why is defending him being treated as such. I am simply stating facts here. 

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

Even more so the give him time to build a squad. Hes spent just north of 200m this summer on Mendy, Werner, Havertz, Chilwell, Silva (free yes), Ziyech and Sarr (another free) and wants to spend more on Rice. If we get Rice thats what 8 players he’s added to the squad. Plus he okay’d the signing of Kovacic also so can put him down to one of his buys if you want to. Getting time to change say 14 players in a squad isnt a valid excuse for me if a sign of progression in 1 and a bit seasons is hard to see. Klopp spent a lot then won when he spent 75m on VVD and 67m on Alisson in space of a season. After realising they needed them. Guardiola won after spending 200-300m his second year. What more do they want him to do? Spend another 200m? The backings there he has to turn it into wins and trophies. Cannot keep spending 200m every season and use this as an excuse. Same with Pep now again, hes spent near 400-500m on CBs and FBs alone if he doesnt win anything with City this season he will have failed this season.

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1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Even more so the give him time to build a squad. Hes spent just north of 200m this summer on Mendy, Werner, Havertz, Chilwell, Silva (free yes), Ziyech and Sarr (another free) and wants to spend more on Rice. If we get Rice thats what 8 players he’s added to the squad. Plus he okay’d the signing of Kovacic also so can put him down to one of his buys if you want to. Getting time to change say 14 players in a squad isnt a valid excuse for me if a sign of progression in 1 and a bit seasons is hard to see. Klopp spent a lot then won when he spent 75m on VVD and 67m on Alisson in space of a season. After realising they needed them. Guardiola won after spending 200-300m his second year. What more do they want him to do? Spend another 200m? The backings there he has to turn it into wins and trophies. Cannot keep spending 200m every season and use this as an excuse. Same with Pep now again, hes spent near 400-500m on CBs and FBs alone if he doesnt win anything with City this season he will have failed this season.

Careful mate. We're not allowed to say anything negative about Lampard... :chai:

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2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Even more so the give him time to build a squad. Hes spent just north of 200m this summer on Mendy, Werner, Havertz, Chilwell, Silva (free yes), Ziyech and Sarr (another free) and wants to spend more on Rice. If we get Rice thats what 8 players he’s added to the squad. Plus he okay’d the signing of Kovacic also so can put him down to one of his buys if you want to. Getting time to change say 14 players in a squad isnt a valid excuse for me if a sign of progression in 1 and a bit seasons is hard to see. Klopp spent a lot then won when he spent 75m on VVD and 67m on Alisson in space of a season. After realising they needed them. Guardiola won after spending 200-300m his second year. What more do they want him to do? Spend another 200m? The backings there he has to turn it into wins and trophies. Cannot keep spending 200m every season and use this as an excuse. Same with Pep now again, hes spent near 400-500m on CBs and FBs alone if he doesnt win anything with City this season he will have failed this season.

Personally, I think your examples work against your argument, not for it.

 

In Klopp's first couple of seasons at Liverpool they were a lot like us. Decent going forward, but with a dodgy keeper and defence and it was only through big money signings that Klopp was able to elevate them to their current level.

Similarly, Pep took over a much better City side than Lamps did with Chelsea, and despite spending big in his first season, keeping and defensive woes lead to a pretty underwhelming first season.

Pep got it right in his second season (with the help of even more signings) and stormed the league but in both examples there's a similar pattern.

 

It's too early to judge this Chelsea team, but I think we can all agree that the Palace game was full of positive signs and with Ziyech and Pulisic still to come I'm feeling a lot more positive about things than I was even a day ago.

And regardless of Lampard's long term suitability to manage us, I'm very happy with the signings he has made so far.

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1 hour ago, nofacej said:

Personally, I think your examples work against your argument, not for it.

 

In Klopp's first couple of seasons at Liverpool they were a lot like us. Decent going forward, but with a dodgy keeper and defence and it was only through big money signings that Klopp was able to elevate them to their current level.

Similarly, Pep took over a much better City side than Lamps did with Chelsea, and despite spending big in his first season, keeping and defensive woes lead to a pretty underwhelming first season.

Pep got it right in his second season (with the help of even more signings) and stormed the league but in both examples there's a similar pattern.

 

It's too early to judge this Chelsea team, but I think we can all agree that the Palace game was full of positive signs and with Ziyech and Pulisic still to come I'm feeling a lot more positive about things than I was even a day ago.

And regardless of Lampard's long term suitability to manage us, I'm very happy with the signings he has made so far.

Personally I don’t see how it does.

Klopp overhauled their squad but it took him longer due to not having the same finances we have if I am honest but before he got Alisson and VVD At least you could see his clear identity on the team and how they would play, with the signs that they were short of two key positions: CB (VVD) and GK (Alisson).

Would you not say the additions of Mendy, Thiago Silva, Ben Chilwell, Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Kai Havertz on top of using Mason, Tammy, Reece, Billy and Tomori last season is basically overhauling the squad so to speak plus Kovacic joining permanently and Pulisic joining up last summer also. Thats 13 changes to the squad in 1 and a bit seasons. Plus the club allowing Ross to leave, David Luiz to leave, Gary Cahill to leave, Eden to leave, Willian to leave, Pedro to leave etc the squad has been refreshed and we really should have built a platform of some sort last season but after December we didn't make any real progress and regressed due to poor performances and questionable tactical/in game management. 

Klopp had to take 2 or 3 seasons really to fully overhaul that squad but the identity was always there and we have basically done an overhaul in 18 months in my opinion without a clear identity or way of playing. If he has to spend another 200m or 300m to be successful in some regard thats proof enough Frank isn’t the right man for this job in my eyes because a squad with this quality of players now, the Ziyechs, Werners, Havertz, Chilwells, Jorginhos, Kantes, Kovacics, Thiago Silvas, Azpilicuetas, this should be enough for any reasonable manager worth their salt to make a formidable team and this season if it doesnt happen then questions should definitely be asked. 100%. How long has it taken Arteta to put an identity on Arsenal? Or win a trophy? Or how much spending did it take him?

Those players we have signed are definitely good enough too to be aiming a bit higher than just finish 4th now. Or waiting another season so we can spend another 200m and make a go for the title or push them closer than last year.

If this were a Jose Mourinho, an Antonio Conte, a Maurizio Sarri - there wouldn’t be the same attitude. That is a fact. He has to deliver a trophy and we have to be in that top 3 being much closer with a much better GD also.

 

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1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Personally I don’t see how it does.

Klopp overhauled their squad but it took him longer due to not having the same finances we have if I am honest but before he got Alisson and VVD At least you could see his clear identity on the team and how they would play, with the signs that they were short of two key positions: CB (VVD) and GK (Alisson).

Would you not say the additions of Mendy, Thiago Silva, Ben Chilwell, Timo Werner, Hakim Ziyech, Kai Havertz on top of using Mason, Tammy, Reece, Billy and Tomori last season is basically overhauling the squad so to speak plus Kovacic joining permanently and Pulisic joining up last summer also. Thats 13 changes to the squad in 1 and a bit seasons. Plus the club allowing Ross to leave, David Luiz to leave, Gary Cahill to leave, Eden to leave, Willian to leave, Pedro to leave etc the squad has been refreshed and we really should have built a platform of some sort last season but after December we didn't make any real progress and regressed due to poor performances and questionable tactical/in game management. 

Klopp had to take 2 or 3 seasons really to fully overhaul that squad but the identity was always there and we have basically done an overhaul in 18 months in my opinion without a clear identity or way of playing. If he has to spend another 200m or 300m to be successful in some regard thats proof enough Frank isn’t the right man for this job in my eyes because a squad with this quality of players now, the Ziyechs, Werners, Havertz, Chilwells, Jorginhos, Kantes, Kovacics, Thiago Silvas, Azpilicuetas, this should be enough for any reasonable manager worth their salt to make a formidable team and this season if it doesnt happen then questions should definitely be asked. 100%. How long has it taken Arteta to put an identity on Arsenal? Or win a trophy? Or how much spending did it take him?

Those players we have signed are definitely good enough too to be aiming a bit higher than just finish 4th now. Or waiting another season so we can spend another 200m and make a go for the title or push them closer than last year.

If this were a Jose Mourinho, an Antonio Conte, a Maurizio Sarri - there wouldn’t be the same attitude. That is a fact. He has to deliver a trophy and we have to be in that top 3 being much closer with a much better GD also.

 

It took Guardiola (a much more experienced manager) 2 seasons worth of big money signings to win the league having inherited a much stronger and more experienced side.

This is Frank's first season where he's been able to make signings (Kovacic doesn't count to me).

If you were to put the timelines side by side, I think it's fair to say that, in terms of squad development, this season is pretty equivalent to Pep's first season.

Like you, I also want this season to be much better than last season, but I don't expect Chelsea to win the league this season.
What I'd like to see is a much improved campaign this season and Chelsea winning the league within the next 3 seasons.

Whether or not Frank is the man to lead Chelsea to that title is up for debate, but for now it's way too early to be making judgements one way or another.

If there's been no improvement 3 months from now and Frank still hasn't settled on a starting 11 then I'll start to question his suitability for the role going forward.

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

This is a very lazy piece of journalism TBH, especially coming from The Athletic. The comparison argument feels like one straight out of a fan forum. Yes, Klopp and Guardiola were given time to build their team at Liverpool and Man City respectively but the one key difference between them and Lampard is that they already had a track record of success before they joined their current club. So Liverpool and Man City knew that while things may not go according to plan to begin with, they knew they will actually turn out to be alright. They knew what they were getting from Klopp and Guardiola. But what track record does Lampard have as a manager before joining us? Only 1 year of managerial experience in the Championship. That's it. We don't have much to fall back on apart from what Lampard is doing right now at the club. We can only judge him based on what we have seen over the last 13-14 months and one can hardly be blamed for questioning him (and no, don't confuse this with asking Lampard to be sacked). A better way to go about arguing whether Lampard will be given time (by Roman) would be to analyze what he has done right, what he has done wrong and what he needs to do to ensure we as a club progress and achieve the objectives we want to achieve. Heck, it might even be good to get some inside info! All the talking is one thing but ultimately, it's all about progression and getting results. 

Lampard's predecessor had a track record of building a title challenging side (ok not winning but if he couldn't find a way to get us over the line then at that point we could have replaced him with one that could ala the Ranieri/Mou changeover) and that wasn't enough for the majority of fans to grant him time.

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6 hours ago, nofacej said:

Personally, I think your examples work against your argument, not for it.

 

In Klopp's first couple of seasons at Liverpool they were a lot like us. Decent going forward, but with a dodgy keeper and defence and it was only through big money signings that Klopp was able to elevate them to their current level.

Similarly, Pep took over a much better City side than Lamps did with Chelsea, and despite spending big in his first season, keeping and defensive woes lead to a pretty underwhelming first season.

Pep got it right in his second season (with the help of even more signings) and stormed the league but in both examples there's a similar pattern.

 

It's too early to judge this Chelsea team, but I think we can all agree that the Palace game was full of positive signs and with Ziyech and Pulisic still to come I'm feeling a lot more positive about things than I was even a day ago.

And regardless of Lampard's long term suitability to manage us, I'm very happy with the signings he has made so far.

Ssssshhh. We are not allowed to make sensible posts which put FL in a positive light.

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8 hours ago, Vesper said:

How Chelsea's secret signing could be Frank Lampard's most important arrival this season

Chelsea have been splashing the cash over the transfer window with the likes of Kai Havertz, Ben Chilwell and Timo Werner joining but Frank Lampard has a secret weapon

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/chelsea-transfer-news-lampard-update-22780496

snip

The expectations have ramped up at Stamford Bridge and the Blues boss has been touted to challenge for trophies.

But one thing he must improve is his defence - which has been scarily leaky, conceding 54 times last year in the Premier League - the most in the top 10.

It has led to Lampard looking to not just improve his squad but his backroom staff, with Anthony Barry joining from Wigan Athletic.

Despite being just 34, he joins with glowing references and studied for his UEFA Pro Licence in June alongside Lampard and Chelsea's assistant manager Jody Morris.

Barry has been branded a defensive-minded coach but his abilities go much further than that.

The former Accrington Stanley star is an avid user of video analysis, going into diligent detail over every facet available.

His relentless commitment to his work will undoubtedly be an absolute asset to Lampard.

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Individual errors, set-pieces and poor organisation has cost them goals at the back while going forward, Chelsea could be accused of not utilising their awesome arsenal of talent to their full capacity.

With Barry behind the scenes, the Blues should be achieving that one per cent extra sometimes necessary that can be the difference between winning and losing.

During his time at Wigan, he was also close with Reece James - who has become a key part of Chelsea's XI.

The Englishman starred for the Latics during a loan spell there and knows all about how good the full-back is.

Then there is his enthusiasm, electric personality and popularity among players and staff - which will no doubt make him an infectious member of Chelsea's team.

With Lampard still in the infancy of his managerial career, having a talented squad is one thing - but he will know it will not count for anything without a proper crew of coaches who are willing to put in the graft necessary - and Barry ticks that box.

I'm happy with Anthony Barrys introduction, i can see signs of our improvements in defending. Tactical fouls to prevent counters, set piece defending, etc. 

The only thing is that the improved defense has come to the detriment of our attack, which looks stale compared to the beginning of last season. But once Pulisic and Ziyech come back and play a few games together with Havertz, I know the attacking fluidity will instantly improve because lampards system in attack largely depends on the quality of players and their form on the day. Its not a practiced system like Leeds who Bielsa grills to play a certain pattern no matter who is in the lineup. 

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