Super Frank Thread

[kellzfresh 7,226]

25 minutes ago, Jason said:

Will love to be proven wrong but I have no hope Lampard will sort out our defensive problems next season, regardless of whether we sign new defenders or not.

Its only a defensive coach that can sort that out. The number of times attackers get the ball infront of our defense, 1 on 1 with them is scary (Salah, Aubameyang, and now Muller/Lewandoski all getting 1 on 1s with our centerbacks at will). I said before that even if we sign Ramos in this our defensive system, he'll get sent of multiple times with his aggressive style of defending.

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

The question is what will people consider as our defensive problems solved. I am sure we will concede at least 10-15 goals less in all comps due to better  offensive output taking pressure off the D. I cant ever see us become a defensively solid side under Lamps simply because that is not his style. If we want to be a side that concedes 20 goals per season, we have to hire a different manager. but we all know how defensively minded managers turn out here. I wouldnt mind tho. I always like the sit back and counter hard approach. I think we have managed it a couple of times this season like vs ManCity.But that is not hte footy Roman wants to see. We knew Lamps defenses are wild when we hired him.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

The question is what will people consider as our defensive problems solved. I am sure we will concede at least 10-15 goals less in all comps due to better  offensive output taking pressure off the D. I cant ever see us become a defensively solid side under Lamps simply because that is not his style. If we want to be a side that concedes 20 goals per season, we have to hire a different manager. but we all know how defensively minded managers turn out here. I wouldnt mind tho. I always like the sit back and counter hard approach. I think we have managed it a couple of times this season like vs ManCity.But that is not hte footy Roman wants to see. We knew Lamps defenses are wild when we hired him.

If Lampard is not able make his sides defensively solid or at least defensively competent, then he is not going to achieve anything in his career, never mind here. If he can't sort it out himself, then get a defensive coach!

IMO, I want to see us defend properly, defend with nous and competency and I don't mean it has to be defensive or pragmatic but defend with good organization like we did under Conte/Mourinho. That our defenders aren't great and need to be upgraded is well documented but I don't believe for one second that they could haven't been coached or drilled better defensively this season. So many of these players played under Sarri last season, for example, and we conceded less goals. Some times, I can't help but wonder if we don't do much defensive work in training at all under Lampard and that the players are just left to their own devices for matches. We some times don't mark players, we some times leave spaces unmarked for players to attack, we some times don't close down spaces etc. PLUS more often than not, whenever we have the ball, pretty much everyone bar the 2 CBs get ahead of the ball with little regard of counter attacks when we lose the ball, which happens a lot and this comes from how the manager sets the team up. It's little wonder why our matches have tended to be like basketball games, why we have conceded so many goals from counter attacks this season, why we have always looked so exposed etc. We won't get anywhere if this continues next season. 

[Laylabelle 9,292]

I want teams to take corners without thinking shit here we go...

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

I disagree with that, with the backing he's got there absolutely has to be an upward trajectory, 75-85 points plus a strong CL showing (go out kicking and screaming).
However winning the title is still a season too early (we will be getting in 5/6 new players asking them to immediately gel and match City/Pool's consistentcy level immediately is unrealistic), in many ways a slowish start will be better for us so to manage fan expectations, the run we had in the autumn last year led to fans getting ideas above the squad's capability (likewise with Sarri's start) and in my opinion contributed to the toxicity when the inevitable growing pains arrived.

You think he'll be sacked if we get less than 75 points?

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[Vesper 27,282]

Just now, Supermonkey92 said:

You think he'll be sacked if we get less than 75 points?

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I cannot make that call without seeing our transfer moves

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Will love to be proven wrong but I have no hope Lampard will sort out our defensive problems next season, regardless of whether we sign new defenders or not.

Exactly. Its more than a personel issue (though better defenders Will obviously help).

If we upgrade half the defence we will concede less because Frank will be relying on better players rather than coaching the 10 outfield players to defend better as a team

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[SUNZ 155]

One of the worst managers we have ever had.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

I cannot make that call without seeing our transfer moves

Id be surprised. Stars would have to align for a great manager to be available.



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[Supermonkey92 1,428]

If Lampard is not able make his sides defensively solid or at least defensively competent, then he is not going to achieve anything in his career, never mind here. If he can't sort it out himself, then get a defensive coach!
IMO, I want to see us defend properly, defend with nous and competency and I don't mean it has to be defensive or pragmatic but defend with good organization like we did under Conte/Mourinho. That our defenders aren't great and need to be upgraded is well documented but I don't believe for one second that they could haven't been coached or drilled better defensively this season. So many of these players played under Sarri last season, for example, and we conceded less goals. Some times, I can't help but wonder if we don't do much defensive work in training at all under Lampard and that the players are just left to their own devices for matches. We some times don't mark players, we some times leave spaces unmarked for players to attack, we some times don't close down spaces etc. PLUS more often than not, whenever we have the ball, pretty much everyone bar the 2 CBs get ahead of the ball with little regard of counter attacks when we lose the ball, which happens a lot and this comes from how the manager sets the team up. It's little wonder why our matches have tended to be like basketball games, why we have conceded so many goals from counter attacks this season, why we have always look so exposed etc. We won't get anywhere if this continues next season. 

I was concerned at how much Kante got forward today (kova seemed to be deeper more often).

I didn't mind kante more forward in a 3 with jorginho as a dm. He offered more help for jorginho and our pressing was so much better with Kante further forward. Jorginho made more interceptions because Kante was rushing the opposition.

But during this game I turned to my brother and joked 'Sarri has ruined Kante'.

Stay in front of the blind statues we have in defence ffs.

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[Vesper 27,282]

1 minute ago, Supermonkey92 said:

But during this game I turned to my brother and joked 'Sarri has ruined Kante'.


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[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Blinding graphics (is that the right word I am old V )

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Supermonkey92 said:

I was concerned at how much Kante got forward today (kova seemed to be deeper more often).

I didn't mind kante more forward in a 3 with jorginho as a dm. He offered more help for jorginho and our pressing was so much better with Kante further forward. Jorginho made more interceptions because Kante was rushing the opposition.

But during this game I turned to my brother and joked 'Sarri has ruined Kante'.

Stay in front of the blind statues we have in defence ffs.

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The thing is, Kante has never been good as a lone defensive midfielder in front of the back 4. If we're gonna play him, then play him with a partner, get that person to sit and defend and then allow Kante to do what he does best, which is seek and destroy. He doesn't have the positional discipline to just sit in front of the back 4 as the lone DM. 

[Vesper 27,282]

[DDA 9,570]

My heart tells me not to turn on Frank and my head agrees... but my eyes are nudging my brain and yelling..'this guy is way out of his depth'. 

[bluephoenix 1,125]

Here is why I support Lampard and want him to still be our long term manager:

1. He has been a blue through and through

2. He is a young manager (still has a lot to learn), will learn quickly and possibly learn/adapt new tactics.

3. With the young squad we had I think we still did fairly well, we had spouts of good football ( consistency is key but that I think will/should come with time and experience)

4. It takes time for the best of managers to settle in, understand the squad and players and iron out the quirks defensively, offensively, middle of the park. That being said, when it takes time for world best to iron things Lampard is far from it so it surely will take him time.

5. Be it circumstantial as it maybe, he gave the good players from our youth squad a chance and actually showed us they maybe be good first team players  (Reece James, Billy, CHO, Tammy(I know people have mixed opinions about him), Tomori, Mount

6. I feel maybe if we have a manager who is young eager to win titles and knows english league as a player so well would come through in due course of time. 

7. I maybe wrong but it seems like maybe maybe the club is getting Lampard the kind of players he wants (if this is the case I feel it is a very good thing) all the while we keep chasing players who would just most likely play good under any manager any tactics which is very wrong assumption IMO. We need to get players that would suite the manager's play or that would fit his tactics.

8. I am sick of seeing managers come and go out. I for one have been a long term advocate of having managerial consistency even at the cost of few poor seasons( just don't drop below top 4 ideally but realistically below 6). Also I want some of Ferguson like at Chelsea.

9. I like Lampard, I just want him to succeed badly. I feel this season he has been focusing more improving our attack which obviously given our players wouldn't rate too badly.

[Vesper 27,282]

The numbers that show how Chelsea struggle in possession

https://theathletic.com/1951315/2020/08/06/chelsea-analytics-possession-lampard/

Chelsea will play Champions League football again next season and have already made impressive progress in their quest to reinforce Frank Lampard’s team in the transfer market. Now able to call upon one of Europe’s most prolific goalscorers in Timo Werner, one of Europe’s most talented creators in Hakim Ziyech and potentially also one of Europe’s most coveted young stars in Kai Havertz, a lack of firepower should no longer be an issue.

But one of the most significant issues for Lampard to address, linked to but distinct from their inconsistent attack, springs directly from Chelsea’s identity as a high possession team.

Is there such a thing as having too much of the ball? Pep Guardiola probably wouldn’t say so, and the very best teams almost always have more possession than their opponents. Chelsea enjoyed more than 50 per cent of the ball in 35 of their 38 Premier League matches this season – the same number as Liverpool and Manchester City.

Chelsea have also fared reasonably well in these games, averaging 1.71 points and 1.77 goals scored. Both numbers rank fourth in the division, behind only Liverpool, Manchester City and Leicester City.

It’s reasonable to predict that, at the very least, their goals scored average will grow with Werner, Ziyech and, potentially, Havertz available to Lampard next season.

The less encouraging figure is Chelsea’s average of 1.34 goals conceded in games where they had the majority of possession; the only team in the top half of the Premier League table who fare worse are Burnley who, on the evidence of this admittedly small sample size, should never want the ball.

When you isolate the 21 Premier League matches in which Chelsea registered more than 60 per cent possession, their averages for points gained and goals scored both dip – though both remain in the upper bracket of the division, if a tier below Liverpool and Manchester City. Once again, however, it’s the average number of goals conceded that stands out for the wrong reasons.

Analysing the five Premier League matches in which Chelsea had more than 70 per cent of possession, the relative vulnerability of Lampard’s team with the ball becomes even more striking. Their averages for points gained and goals scored dip further away from the lofty standards set by Liverpool and Manchester City, while their goals conceded average surges up to 1.8.

Five games is a dangerously small sample size from which to draw firm conclusions, of course.

When you dig a little deeper into those matches – wins over Newcastle United at home and Aston Villa away, losses on the road to West Ham United and Sheffield United and a draw in Bournemouth – the expected goals values suggest Lampard’s team were slightly unlucky; on average, they created better quality scoring chances than they gave up, if only just.

But the overall picture painted is clear: unlike the very best possession teams such as Manchester City and Liverpool, who are consistently successful in picking apart deep-lying defences and rarely give opponents any quality opportunities to hurt them on the counter, Chelsea can be too easily stifled by a low block and too frequently carved open when they lose the ball.

In those recent defeats by West Ham and Sheffield United, the numbers back up the notion that Lampard’s team pretty much got what they deserved.

Sheffield United manager Chris Wilder can take credit for helping to force one of Chelsea’s worst attacking performances of the season. Tammy Abraham was responsible for 0.72 of the team’s paltry overall expected goals (xG) rating of 1.2 at Bramall Lane on July 11, from five shot attempts. Four of those were classed by Opta as having been taken under heavy pressure, with at least two Sheffield United defenders between him and Dean Henderson’s goal.

Abraham broadly performed in line with expectations with the shots he took under heavy pressure this season, scoring seven goals against an xG rating of 7.7. His final tally of 15 goals from his first Premier League campaign as Chelsea’s leading striker is a respectable return, particularly in light of the fact that injuries hampered his progress and Olivier Giroud limited his minutes over the final month.

But there is a clear need for additional goal threats against stubborn opponents such as Sheffield United, and this is where Werner’s presence could be most valuable next season. He is smaller and more nimble than both Abraham and Giroud, with excellent instincts for getting into scoring positions in transition and in more crowded penalty areas. He also became a more complete player at RB Leipzig this season under Julian Nagelsmann, dropping deeper to link play and carry the ball himself.

It’s reasonable to argue that improving Chelsea’s attack will automatically strengthen their defence; the more frequently they can break the deadlock against teams who choose to defend deep, the more opportunities they will get to counter-attack themselves in situations where the scoreline dictates their opponents will have to take more risks.

But that only works up to a point, and it’s difficult to imagine that simply scoring more goals will bring Chelsea’s defence up to the level of Liverpool or Manchester City in games where they dominate possession. Tweaks to Lampard’s high-risk, high-reward tactical structure will also be required, together with changes to the personnel at the heart of the team’s transition problems.

Lampard has already shown a willingness to explore different potential solutions on the tactical front, switching to a wing-back system for some of their biggest games at the tail-end of the season and putting N’Golo Kante in the deep-lying midfield role traditionally occupied by Jorginho, whose defensive limitations were crudely highlighted by his feeble attempt to stop Andy Robertson in the lead up to Liverpool’s fifth goal at Anfield earlier this month.

He also wants to bring in a more assertive centre-back and a left-back to upgrade from Emerson Palmieri and Marcos Alonso, whose 89th-minute failure to run back in pursuit of matchwinner Andriy Yarmolenko cost Chelsea a point away at West Ham. Even more pressingly, Lampard is pushing to sign a goalkeeper more capable of bailing out those in front of him than Kepa Arrizabalaga has proven in two seasons at Stamford Bridge.

Chelsea’s headline recruits so far will surely make them more dangerous in possession — but if Lampard wants them to compete with the very best again, he also needs to make his team less vulnerable with the ball.

[Puliiszola 519]

Oh I see the fickle-ness is in full swing.

"Worst season", "worst manager". 

Honestly what did people expect was going to happen last night? We xould have sat back and lost 1-0 and done nothing aka Conte against city, without ever trying to even put up a challenge. 

I know there are issues. Massive issues. Glaring issues. But fucking hell. "Worst season". "Worst manafer", "turning on lamps". Dammmn 

Honestly we have got to be the worst set of fans in the entire sporting world. Fickle to the core, ungrateful and pathetic.

It does not matter if we had pep, or Klopp. The result would have been the same. The pitchforks would have been out for them after 1 season. 

What's even more pathetic is, FL has had a far better first season than both of them. His signings have been great. We acheived most of our goals that fans themselves would have set for this team and squad. 

It's just sad to see such horrifying fickleness. 

I have no doubt FL is gonna go down as one of our most successful managers. Come on chelsea. Ktbffh!!!