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Jas
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I can't actually believe how well coached we are. Puts it in further perspective when you see the garbage United and Arsenal are spewing. I love the fact Frank isn't so stubborn to try and do it

Very confused, can only assume the ones being somewhat negative did not watch the game? Aside from Dave and Zouma, I thought we played really well against the European Champions. I was shocked at time

Our pressing game was superb, and made all the difference today! 4-3-3 with Mount and Havertz to harass opponents and Kante to sweep up behind...that's the way to go. And we have two bombing

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14 minutes ago, Jason said:

And yet, Azpi was brought on for Alonso when we were 3-0 down at HT.

Neither Emerson nor Alonso are great. They are both crap, to put it kindly, and think we all can agree that. Personally, I would play Emerson simply because he has better athleticism than Alonso. He certainly won't get outrun by a player who started 10 yards (or whatever it was) back!

This is a bit of myth. Alonso is useless at defending set pieces. His height is only useful if the ball comes to him. Otherwise, we end up with what happened with West Brom's 3rd goal. 

Also, when was the last time Alonso was a threat in attacking set pieces? Has he ever been a threat? And please, don't give me taking the free kick nonsense. 

My point is that neither option we have at the moment is good enough. Be it Alonso, Emerson or Dave. Emerson has been given a run of games under Lampard and has continued to look an utter liability.  Either Lampard plays two defensively poor left backs or Dave who completely limits our width on the left side, which has been infuriating time and time again. 

There's no right answer here. 

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9 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

My point is that neither option we have at the moment is good enough. Be it Alonso, Emerson or Dave. Emerson has been given a run of games under Lampard and has continued to look an utter liability.  Either Lampard plays two defensively poor left backs or Dave who completely limits our width on the left side, which has been infuriating time and time again. 

There's no right answer here. 

Mount?

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I'm going to defend Frank after giving it much thought and watching the game again. We started very sharply against WB with quick interchanging movement. The individual mistakes were not Franks doing. Yes you can put the lineup on him, like why did Alonso start over Emerson and Mount should have started in midfield for me with Odoi on the LW. He obviously wanted to see what Wernee was like on the wing where he played for RB Leipzig before. It didn't work out yesterday. If those individual errors didn't occur then we would have won the game comfortably. We definitely need to see continuity on his team selection but it hasn't been easy with the endless injuries to players in key positions. He is also trying to get everyone fit as rotation is going to be pivotal in a chaotic fixture list that will test the endurance of any squad in English football. I think we will see all the big teams have wobbles this season, given the lack of pre-season and from the sheer amount of games to be played. Going back to the game though, I really felt asif we were attacking more fluidly before he changed the formation and everybody decided to stand still for 40 minutes or so.. although I think that was down to fatigue more than anything. There is still alot to come from Frank but there is no doubt he needs to settle the back 4 with Mendy in goal and then choose a midfield that can deal with the transition defensively but still be mobile enough to counter the press. Once he does that, the attack doesn't need much thinking... we are already banging enough goals in.

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Three games, three bad performances so far. Barnsley game is more of a pre season. 

A lot people keep talking about Alonso starting. Starting Alonso is not a problem, yes he was very bad. The problem with Lamp is that he pick player based on ohh he had good game last time, let's play him next game. 

Against WBA he started Silva and Alonso on the same side, too slow of a pairing. I like when I saw Werner playing wide, ahh at least he will stay wide a couple time. Nope he was narrow all the time. Hence Alonso need to play as winger pretty much all the time. 

Now tons of people say emerson is better, nope emerson is awful. But if you want your lb to play wide and beating player, Alonso is useless, emerson make more sense. 

2nd half, Azpi and especially CHO helped us big time. Good sub, but why in the hell CHO didn't start. CHO started on the right but James can handle right wing on his own. When CHO moved to the left suddenly our left side turn alive. All azpi need to do make was easy pass to cho, stay back or under or overlap, done. 

When we brought Giroud on, I thought it was for Tammy or maybe Werner but it was for Silva. We changed to 3412, suddenly our offense turned into turd. Our two fb need to start deep to start the attack rather than staying high. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

My point is that neither option we have at the moment is good enough. Be it Alonso, Emerson or Dave. Emerson has been given a run of games under Lampard and has continued to look an utter liability.  Either Lampard plays two defensively poor left backs or Dave who completely limits our width on the left side, which has been infuriating time and time again. 

There's no right answer here. 

Sure, Azpi limits out width on the left side but let's not pretend Alonso - or Emerson for that matter - does anything useful going forward, especially in a flat back four. 

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He does not know what he is doing, the same thing as last year, perhaps even worse than last year because now all the excuses he has used are only covering the eyes of fewer and fewer people.

It will be a long and frustrating season in general, at some point the administration and some fans will realize that in the place of coach of an elite club, someone has to be qualified for this position and not a legendary player of the club who already had difficulties to coach a Derby County in the Championship.

Several players are being publicly burned to cover up the gross errors of Lampard's mismanagement and lack of skills.
While others are protected and play because they have a stronger personal affinity with him.

It is a disaster, something that can happen in an amateur club, but not at Chelsea FC.

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3 hours ago, communicate said:

The problem with Lamp is that he pick player based on ohh he had good game last time, let's play him next game. 

Indeed...as seen as by his Abraham selection and his "Oh, Abraham & Havertz had good connection last game, let's try to build on it" thought out of nowhere. 

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8 minutes ago, Jason said:

Indeed...as seen as by his Abraham selection and his "Oh, Abraham & Havertz had good connection last game, let's try to build on it" thought out of nowhere. 

Yep. Lampard so far has been a very reactionary manager. He has to find an attacking plan and stick to it. I hope he finally comes around to CHO in place of Tammy and Werner and Havertz through the middle.

Eventually Pulisic Havertz Ziyech with Werner up front. Giroud/Tammy/Mount/CHO rotating. That is a solid set of options.

 

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Indeed...as seen as by his Abraham selection and his "Oh, Abraham & Havertz had good connection last game, let's try to build on it" thought out of nowhere. 

No one had a problem with this before kick off though, even on the ever tough love TC. So what would you do? Werner up front and CHO on the wing? Again, no one thought CHO deserves to start after the Barnsley game. [emoji2371]
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19 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

No one had a problem with this before kick off though, even on the ever tough love TC. So what would you do? Werner up front and CHO on the wing? Again, no one thought CHO deserves to start after the Barnsley game. emoji2371.png

Personally, I was skeptical because there is a reason why Abraham is no longer starting on a regular basis and there is a reason why we went out to buy someone like Werner. But Abraham was rewarded with a place in the starting XI just because he did well against a lower league opposition in a League Cup game and because of his apparent connection with Havertz. Can you imagine if we had rewarded Batshuayi with a place in the starting XI in the past because he did well in the cup games? Although Abraham did well to score the equalizer, he contributed little elsewhere and Lampard starting him also seemed to have a detrimental effect on Werner because he was operating in areas where he couldn't do what he was ultimately bought for - to score goals. He was playing on the LW, RW, dropping deep in central areas to pick up the ball etc. Not where we want him to be, not what we want him to do.

Anyway the main point is, Lampard needs to have a clear idea on his attacking plan and stick with it. It might not be perfect to begin with, but stick with it and work on it. It's sure much better than constantly changing it every single time, especially with little time to even practice it between games this season. We have played 3 league games this season and the attacking front 3/4 has been different in each of them. How can we expect any sort of understanding, consistency or chemistry if we are gonna be chopping and changing so much? Abraham starting yesterday was a clearly reactionary to what he did with Havertz against Barnsley because if Lampard had planned for that, Abraham wouldn't have started on the bench for the first two games. You might not agree but this is why I - and maybe some others - have concerns over whether Lampard knows what to do with all these attacking options and this is without Pulisic and Ziyech by the way. 

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28 minutes ago, Jason said:

Indeed...as seen as by his Abraham selection and his "Oh, Abraham & Havertz had good connection last game, let's try to build on it" thought out of nowhere. 

Who can predict that it doesn't work as well against WBA. 😏😏

I personally will give lamp about 10 games due to no pre season to find a kinda default system and give our player more familiarity with one another. 

I thought it will be 4231 but we kinda need a designated holder aka Kante and pray that he stay healthy, if he has injury riddled season, we are absolutely f***

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Yes, we have to acknowledge that the first three shots from WBA went in and two of them were casual turnovers and one was a setpiece.

The issue is going forward against low-blocks. Three goals scored but so many attacks eventually turned to Reece James crossing. There's no midfield player confident enough to ping the ball down the middle and try to pick the lock. One of the few times they played down the middle was the Havertz pass to CHO for the second goal.

 

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Personally, I was skeptical because there is a reason why Abraham is no longer starting on a regular basis and there is a reason why we went out to buy someone like Werner. But Abraham was rewarded with a place in the starting XI just because he did well against a lower league opposition in a League Cup game and because of his apparent connection with Havertz. Can you imagine if we had rewarded Batshuayi with a place in the starting XI in the past because he did well in the cup games? Although Abraham did well to score the equalizer, he contributed little elsewhere and Lampard starting him also seemed to have a detrimental effect on Werner because he was operating in areas where he couldn't do what he was ultimately bought for - to score goals. He was playing on the LW, RW, dropping deep in central areas to pick up the ball etc. Not where we want him to be, not what we want him to do.
Anyway the main point is, Lampard needs to have a clear idea on his attacking plan and stick with it. It might not be perfect to begin with, but stick with it and work on it. It's sure much better than constantly changing it every single time, especially with little time to even practice it between games this season. We have played 3 league games this season and the attacking front 3/4 has been different in each of them. How can we expect any sort of understanding, consistency or chemistry if we are gonna be chopping and changing so much? Abraham starting yesterday was a clearly reactionary to what he did with Havertz against Barnsley because if Lampard had planned for that, Abraham wouldn't have started on the bench for the first two games. You might not agree but this is why I - and maybe some others - have concerns over whether Lampard knows what to do with all these attacking options and this is without Pulisic and Ziyech by the way. 

Against Barnsley Tammy was great and CHO was shit, giving Pulisic and Ziyech were not available, it’s nowhere near reactionary to start Tammy yesterday.
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12 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Against Barnsley Tammy was great and CHO was shit, giving Pulisic and Ziyech were not available, it’s nowhere near reactionary to start Tammy yesterday.

It was because of the supposed connection that Havertz-Abraham had against Barnsley. Lampard admitted it as much pre-match yesterday. 

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It was because of the supposed connection that Havertz-Abraham had against Barnsley. Lampard admitted it as much pre-match yesterday. 

Right, nothing to do with CHO was shit and Pulisic is not available. Curious what’s your suggested lineup?
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Just now, Ryan Fong said:

Right, nothing to do with CHO was shit and Pulisic is not available. 

What is your justification on why Abraham did not play the first 2 games then? Pulisic wasn't available. CHO was doing nothing. Yet, Abraham did not start against Brighton or Liverpool.

2 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Curious what’s your suggested lineup?

Werner

Mount---Havertz---CHO

Yes, CHO hasn't been great but since he's our only winger available, I would have played him for that, to stretch play and provide the width because neither of those were coming from Werner and Mount out wide (pretend to be shocked). Everything was narrow and easy to defend for West Brom's back 3/5.

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Werner
Mount---Havertz---CHO
Yes, CHO hasn't been great but since he's our only winger available, I would have played him for that, to stretch play and provide the width because neither of those were coming from Werner and Mount out wide (pretend to be shocked). Everything was narrow and easy to defend for West Brom's back 3/5.

CHO has played literally 10 mins in the first two games and what’s your justification to start him? “Hasn’t been great” is an understatement admit it or not, he was appalling. Emerson did a much better job on the wing against Barnsley was pretty telling. Being the only winger available doesn’t give him the free pass in my book.
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10 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

CHO has played literally 10 mins in the first two games and what’s your justification to start him? “Hasn’t been great” is an understatement admit it or not, he was appalling. Emerson did a much better job on the wing against Barnsley was pretty telling. Being the only winger available doesn’t give him the free pass in my book.

But the lineup that wasn't eventually put out didn't do too greatly, did it? And who helped changed the game after coming on? CHO. He gave us the width that we were sorely lacking.

CHO hasn't been great but he is nowhere near say Torres-level disaster to be just ignored completely. It's about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job. 

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But the lineup that wasn't eventually put out didn't do too greatly, did it? And who helped changed the game after coming on? CHO. He gave us the width that we were sorely lacking.
CHO hasn't been great but he is nowhere near say Torres-level disaster to be just ignored completely. It's about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Moreover, CHO helped partially with a goal, other than that I think he’s just ok-ish. It’s Mount who changed the game.

“It’s about giving confidence and trust to the players to go out there and do the job”, doesn’t apply to Abraham? [emoji2371]

I’m not saying Lampard has no faults, far from it. Alonso shouldn’t start, but even that’s kinda arguable because Emerson is equally shit and Azpi is right-footed. Giroud’s sub was bizarre, he should either replace Abraham like for like with Giroud or put Barkley on or don’t change at all.
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