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44 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Never would we have conceded with 11 men on the pitch. The one frustrating thing here is this inferiority complex we have, and AC and Kepa in particular, when it comes to playing Liverpool we always manage to lose in creative ways. Conceding stupid long rangers or set pieces. Now we looked defensively well organized and then shot our selves in the foot. Both ac and Kepa should have anticipated th trajectory of that ball way better.

 We other is the mount love in. He is useless. Maybe CHO is too. But if so at least try Giroud and play Werner on the wing ffs. Mount on the Wing has to stop 

Yeah, the Mount on the wing experiment can stop.

Looks like Werner can also do a job defensively if played on the wing. Works very hard.

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I can't actually believe how well coached we are. Puts it in further perspective when you see the garbage United and Arsenal are spewing. I love the fact Frank isn't so stubborn to try and do it

Very confused, can only assume the ones being somewhat negative did not watch the game? Aside from Dave and Zouma, I thought we played really well against the European Champions. I was shocked at time

Our pressing game was superb, and made all the difference today! 4-3-3 with Mount and Havertz to harass opponents and Kante to sweep up behind...that's the way to go. And we have two bombing

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It is "strange" that we are so wrapped up with the idea of our wingers/wide players needing to track back into our own defensive area when those at the likes of Man City and Liverpool do not really do that.

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Let's wait until November to decide about everything. 

In 2 games every season we see things that don't hold for the entire. 

We just need to see how we organize from here till November-December. 

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1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Let's wait until November to decide about everything. 

In 2 games every season we see things that don't hold for the entire. 

We just need to see how we organize from here till November-December. 

I don't think anyone here is saying "Sack Lampard!!!" However for me personally, the writing's on the wall.

Bar a small handful of matches last season, I haven't been really impressed with Lampard's tactics and team selection.

People told me that things will change this season and last season should be a "free pass".  So far, nothing has changed.

Lampard is stubborn, I can only look at his goalkeeping choice to know that he is. People argue Willy is slightly worse, but Willy didn't disrespect a coach when he was asked to sub off. And I'm sure Willy will not pull a feck up like Kepa did for the second Liverpool goal. It amazes me how Kepa is still #1, when he has done near feck all since that Carabao Cup final.

Lampard-defenders are leeching on to "Ziyech, Chilwell, Silva etc haven't played!" now. Okay, if they were all playing and we still look shite...then what? Because it's very possible. What's the next excuse? Give him time? Everton didn't need time! They got a new midfield and James and they are looking better already!

What's so special about Lampard except he's a club legend? His time at Derby wasn't all that great.

He changed their footballing style ok, but the defense was shite and that cost Derby their return to the PL. I really wanted Lampard to stay in Derby and prove himself. Him coming to Chelsea this early in his career rubbed me the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a dream for Lampard to lift big trophies as a Chelsea coach. But we need to split dream from reality. 

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4 hours ago, Jason said:

It is "strange" that we are so wrapped up with the idea of our wingers/wide players needing to track back into our own defensive area when those at the likes of Man City and Liverpool do not really do that.

I think it's because we dont trust our full backs to do the job on their own.

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3 hours ago, Mana said:

I don't think anyone here is saying "Sack Lampard!!!" However for me personally, the writing's on the wall.

Bar a small handful of matches last season, I haven't been really impressed with Lampard's tactics and team selection.

People told me that things will change this season and last season should be a "free pass".  So far, nothing has changed.

If his team selections and tactics were poor last season, and he still got top 4, then Chelsea were one of the luckiest teams alive. I mean we struggled to get top4 with Eden, he got it without him and re-inforcements. 

Also, when people say things like "he can not be defended", that is pretty definitive in terms of where they and what they want to do with the manager.

3 hours ago, Mana said:

Lampard is stubborn, I can only look at his goalkeeping choice to know that he is. People argue Willy is slightly worse, but Willy didn't disrespect a coach when he was asked to sub off. And I'm sure Willy will not pull a feck up like Kepa did for the second Liverpool goal. It amazes me how Kepa is still #1, when he has done near feck all since that Carabao Cup final.

How lampard stubborn? Did not willy start our 2 most important games of the last season - wolves with top 4 on the line and fa cup final. How can we possibly say FL is stubborn with his selection for kepa when he has dropped him like a sack of potatoes when it actually mattered, are you kidding me? Or have we conviniently forgotten that. Kepa had to be started at the start of this one, to give him one last shot. Can he show something to be kept. You are talking about reality yet can't understand why we are persisting and hoping against hope for a record signing to come through, for a 72m signing to show something positive. This is not fifa where you can simply discard such an asset/liability, this is real life. 2 games will not decide our fate this season, but these 2 games have definitely decided kepa's fate. 

3 hours ago, Mana said:

Lampard-defenders are leeching on to "Ziyech, Chilwell, Silva etc haven't played!" now. Okay, if they were all playing and we still look shite...then what? Because it's very possible. What's the next excuse? Give him time? Everton didn't need time! They got a new midfield and James and they are looking better already!

What's so special about Lampard except he's a club legend? His time at Derby wasn't all that great.

He changed their footballing style ok, but the defense was shite and that cost Derby their return to the PL. I really wanted Lampard to stay in Derby and prove himself. Him coming to Chelsea this early in his career rubbed me the wrong way.

Don't get me wrong, it will be a dream for Lampard to lift big trophies as a Chelsea coach. But we need to split dream from reality. 

Everton got a new mid and he is actually PLAYING. Currently we are worse off from the last season, cause we have no playmaker. We are minus willian and pulisic. How is that an "excuse"? If with ziyech and puli we are still this poor in attack, then anyone and everyone will have a right to ask questions off him. But after 2 games and with pulisic, ziyech, Silva, chilwell and Mendy, and against the BEST team in the world. Lol. 

 

Just because it personally rubbed you the wrong way (lol), does not mean you have to discredit his achievements with things like he got his selection and tactics wrong or I cant see what he has done special. 

He got us top 4 with no Eden, he got us our best window in living memory with players like Werner and Kai. That is the REALITY. 

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I don't think anyone here is saying "Sack Lampard!!!" However for me personally, the writing's on the wall.
Bar a small handful of matches last season, I haven't been really impressed with Lampard's tactics and team selection.
People told me that things will change this season and last season should be a "free pass".  So far, nothing has changed.
Lampard is stubborn, I can only look at his goalkeeping choice to know that he is. People argue Willy is slightly worse, but Willy didn't disrespect a coach when he was asked to sub off. And I'm sure Willy will not pull a feck up like Kepa did for the second Liverpool goal. It amazes me how Kepa is still #1, when he has done near feck all since that Carabao Cup final.
Lampard-defenders are leeching on to "Ziyech, Chilwell, Silva etc haven't played!" now. Okay, if they were all playing and we still look shite...then what? Because it's very possible. What's the next excuse? Give him time? Everton didn't need time! They got a new midfield and James and they are looking better already!
What's so special about Lampard except he's a club legend? His time at Derby wasn't all that great.
He changed their footballing style ok, but the defense was shite and that cost Derby their return to the PL. I really wanted Lampard to stay in Derby and prove himself. Him coming to Chelsea this early in his career rubbed me the wrong way.
Don't get me wrong, it will be a dream for Lampard to lift big trophies as a Chelsea coach. But we need to split dream from reality. 



Completely disagree with the whole post.

Use Kepa over Willy is stubborn? Can you guarantee Willy wouldn’t make mistakes? It’s not like dropping C.Ronaldo for Marko Marin you know. Just because Kepa did a shit show doesn’t mean you can falsely accuse Frank’s choice of GK. They are both shit, you can only blame the team didn’t sign a decent GK soon enough. And what’s it to do with Frank about Kepa “disrespected” Sarri, you’re clutching at straws here.

There’s no IFs, Ziyech Chilwell Silva indeed haven’t played, can you see them on the pitch? Let them play first, end of story.

So far Frank is nothing special as a manager but also not that bad as you proclaimed, at least he lead us to 4th with a team that was pretty much written off by everyone.
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31 minutes ago, Strike said:

TC being TC. You'd think we are in April going by the reactions here. Its two games into the season!

But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

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But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

We weren’t too bad last season with all things considered right?

 

This season, only 2 matches played, I don’t think it’s a fair sample size to make deep analysis but if you want to, I would like to say we have improved our defense collectively except those individual errors which were random and unpredictable. Offensively yes we looks poorer but spare in mind that we are missing our two major ball carriers in Pulisic and Willian, and the new boys Werner and Havertz still need time to adapt. Personally I think we played pretty well before the red card and arguably we had created more chances in the first half.

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Christensen fucked the game. Zyech, Pulisic and Silva out. His only mistake is his love for Mount. Other than that I dont know why you guys are mad.

The only reason I'm mad is that this team haven't seen the diagonal setup run Timo makes behind the defense and the midfielder who I believe knows Timo is a speed monster don't see reason to play a diagonal pass or a drop ball behind the defense and I don't see why the manager who is out in the touch line can't spot and instruct his side with some of this move. Did any one saw Kane passes to Son yesterday it that simple when you have a player like Timo. [emoji2959]
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25 minutes ago, Jason said:

But it's the second season under the same manager, not a new one. 

Yes, Lampard's setup was conservative but there were a number of average players in the XI and two new attackers who haven't played much together. I'd wait for a larger sample size of games and for players to come back.

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Yes, Lampard's setup was conservative but there were a number of average players in the XI and two new attackers who haven't played much together. I'd wait for a larger sample size of games and for players to come back.

Unpopular opinion, I can even see he has improved his tactical maturity a bit. Instead of going all gung ho in the big matches last season, people might call me crazy, I was kinda happy to see his conservative setup last night.
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26 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

We weren’t too bad last season with all things considered right?

This season, only 2 matches played, I don’t think it’s a fair sample size to make deep analysis but if you want to, I would like to say we have improved our defense collectively except those individual errors which were random and unpredictable. Offensively yes we looks poorer but spare in mind that we are missing our two major ball carriers in Pulisic and Willian, and the new boys Werner and Havertz still need time to adapt. Personally I think we played pretty well before the red card and arguably we had created more chances in the first half.

Despite all the inconsistency and bad results last season, think we all agreed that it was Lampard's first season and that he needed time to implement his ideas, his style of play and all that. We are now in his second season, we should be seeing his ideas already, having that defined style of play, even with all unfavorable circumstances. This season should be a continuation of the work he started, we should not be resetting everything just because it is a new season or we bought new players etc. I posted this earlier...

9 hours ago, Jason said:

It is almost bizarre to see us go from having a defined style of play, an identity to almost nothing in months or a year basically under Lampard. In the first half of last season, we looked exciting and had an identity in terms of how we want to play. We wanted to play on the front foot, press from the front, dominate possession and the opposition. We had the likes of Jorginho, Kante, Mount, Kovacic controlling the midfield and Pulisic, Willian, Abraham, CHO contributing in attack and we looked fluid, threatening and exciting. But somewhere along the way and I do not know if it was because of the pressure from bad results or Lampard's lack of experience, we started to revert to type, to our old selves from years ago with pragmatic football or to a more one dimensional play. In the early months of this year, our attacking player amounted to nothing more than James dumping crosses into the box most of the time. And after the restart, it basically became "give Pulisic the ball and hope for the best!" a la the Hazard days. We basically became a one man team again. We did not play any of the football that we saw in the first few months of the season. Lampard suddenly also started changing the midfield around - Kante going into the lone DM role, Jorginho being ditched (and suddenly being back in the team again) and just have Kovacic and whoever to fill out the midfield roles. What exactly is our style of play going forward? What exactly does Lampard actually want us to play? It is only two games into the season and circumstances may not have been favorable but there does not seem to be a clear identity or style of play that we want to implement. We have looked somewhat lost or caught up between different approaches. If we really want to be successful again and close the gap on Liverpool, Man City and even some others around Europe like Bayern, then we need to have a defined style of play, a clear identity. You look at Liverpool, Man City etc and you can tell and see how they play. They may make tactical tweaks against different teams but they have a defined style of play and they impose that on the opposition. They also have a consistent team selection and players know their role within the team. We do not have that. There are just too many changes and even uncertainty in the team. We need to have that certainty, we need to go back to what Lampard were trying to do at the start of last season and not flip flopping around so much. If not, we are not going to get to where we want to be and whatever grand ideas that Lampard has will just fall to pieces.

 

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8 minutes ago, Ryan Fong said:

Unpopular opinion, I can even see he has improved his tactical maturity a bit. Instead of going all gung ho in the big matches last season, people might call me crazy, I was kinda happy to see his conservative setup last night.

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

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4 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

I think it's because we dont trust our full backs to do the job on their own.

I don't think so. I think we're still stuck with the pragmatic mindset that we used to have. If we actually play proactively and press from the front, we wouldn't be seeing that. How often do you see Man City or Liverpool wide players dropping so deep to defend?

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

Does FL do it every game? What were our options up front on the wings if we wanted to go toe to toe with Pool. CHO? Tammy? Mount? Kai? 

Last year we played liverpool 4 games, and went toe to toe with them EVERY time. Played an attacking game. DId we have the attacking personnel to give the same output as salah, mane and firmino? 

You would have been the first one condoning FL had we gone all out attack and lost 2-5. 

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Ironic to hear considering how much stick Mourinho or Conte used to get for setting up 'conservatively' in big games. 

If with the available players we have for this match, we still go out there to do gung ho style, I would call that tactical naive, which was one of Frank’s shortcomings last season. So yes, I’m happy with it and I’m not gonna drag Mou and Conte into the conversation, deep down you know they’re different.
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15 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Does FL do it every game? What were our options up front on the wings if we wanted to go toe to toe with Pool. CHO? Tammy? Mount? Kai? 

Last year we played liverpool 4 games, and went toe to toe with them EVERY time. Played an attacking game. DId we have the attacking personnel to give the same output as salah, mane and firmino? 

No, we did not just blindly play an attacking game against Liverpool last season. We played on the counter attack and showed attacking intent when we did get the ball and apart from Werner and Havertz in yesterday's XI, all the others were the players who played and competed well against them last season. If we were able to do that in several games last season, why couldn't we do that yesterday? We were unlucky to lose to them in the Super Cup and at home in the league. Moreover at one point or another in those games, we had Pulisic/Mount/Pedro on one side and Willian on the other. Yesterday, we had Mount, who is practically like the new Willian, on one side and Werner on the other. Are those options really different from what we had last season? You could also practically put Mount and CHO as the wing options, Havertz as the No.10 and Werner upfront instead.

25 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

You would have been the first one condoning FL had we gone all out attack and lost 2-5.

No one said about anything about going all out attack yesterday. As I have said numerous times, I was okay with the counter attacking approach but not happy with how passive we were and the execution of the plan. We were basically lumping long balls to Havertz for him to win in the air against Van Dijk and hoping Werner did something on the break. Other than that, where was the threat for us? 

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