Super Frank Thread

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

Not only that mate but they were managed much better, Conte worked around their weaknesses, making sure we move as a unit etc. Im very much looking forward what lineup Lamps will go for this time, surely he aint gonna persist like this. Play Jorgo KOva and Mount, bring Zouma in, start with Giroud. We'll see.

Exactly.
 

Lets not forget that Conte revitalised Cahill and Luiz’s performances here that first season as well as Matic’s as well in midfield and managed to give Eden, Willian and Pedro that freedom that they weren’t really afforded with Mourinho.

I do think the fact that he made David play in a position where he maybe didn't have to engage players in 1 v 1s in wider areas as often as he would of perhaps done so in a back 4 and gave him a more disciplined position in the middle made a difference without even mentioning the midfield. I mean how many times have we seen Luiz be out in wider areas trying to cover his fullbacks and get beat? Conte also gave him a bit more freedom to come out with the ball into midfield at times which suited him as his use of the ball is a plus.

Matic and Kante also gave a lot of protection in the middle which did help but I do think that their individual performances were so consistent. Obviously there was the organisation that Conte drilled into the team too, something he has been renowned for doing for years, it gave us a real platform. Everyone knew their roles, where to be, the distances to be between each other etc when defending. In general it was a very complete team I felt, we had goals in attack as well as creativity in midfield with Cesc once he got in and the wingbacks, despite lacking obvious top level quality, created real width that freed up pockets for the likes of Eden and Willian in central areas too. It did mask some of the flaws of these players as you mentioned. 

We really should have built on that foundation with Antonio but Bakayoko, Zappacosta and Morata (still annoyed he started so well and then faded and is now likely to never become the player he should have been) were poor signings. Things obviously soured with him too but I do think what he has already done at Inter as well as what he did with Juve, Italy and here shows how good he is. I am also sure Cesc said on Twitter that Conte was the best manager he had ever worked with at giving a team such a clear and obvious identity in a short period of time. 

I would like to see us go back to using Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount. There was such a real connection and chemistry with those guys at the start of the season. I can see why hes trying to fit Kante in but it hasnt always worked. I think he has to play with a Jorginho or Kovacic in either a 2 or on the right of a 3 with Jorginho as a 6. He isnt necessarily in one fixed position he can get up and down a bit more as well as hunt the ball down in those areas of the pitch. Obviously he is top quality but shoehorning him into that fixed position in a 3 man MF in front of the defence isn't always going to suit his game or ours if we play smaller teams and have much more of the ball.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Exactly.
 

Lets not forget that Conte revitalised Cahill and Luiz’s performances here that first season as well as Matic’s as well in midfield and managed to give Eden, Willian and Pedro that freedom that they weren’t really afforded with Mourinho.

I do think the fact that he made David play in a position where he maybe didn't have to engage players in 1 v 1s in wider areas as often as he would of perhaps done so in a back 4 and gave him a more disciplined position in the middle made a difference without even mentioning the midfield. I mean how many times have we seen Luiz be out in wider areas trying to cover his fullbacks and get beat? Conte also gave him a bit more freedom to come out with the ball into midfield at times which suited him as his use of the ball is a plus.

Matic and Kante also gave a lot of protection in the middle which did help but I do think that their individual performances were so consistent. Obviously there was the organisation that Conte drilled into the team too, something he has been renowned for doing for years, it gave us a real platform. Everyone knew their roles, where to be, the distances to be between each other etc when defending. In general it was a very complete team I felt, we had goals in attack as well as creativity in midfield with Cesc once he got in and the wingbacks, despite lacking obvious top level quality, created real width that freed up pockets for the likes of Eden and Willian in central areas too. It did mask some of the flaws of these players as you mentioned. 

We really should have built on that foundation with Antonio but Bakayoko, Zappacosta and Morata (still annoyed he started so well and then faded and is now likely to never become the player he should have been) were poor signings. Things obviously soured with him too but I do think what he has already done at Inter as well as what he did with Juve, Italy and here shows how good he is. I am also sure Cesc said on Twitter that Conte was the best manager he had ever worked with at giving a team such a clear and obvious identity in a short period of time. 

I would like to see us go back to using Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount. There was such a real connection and chemistry with those guys at the start of the season. I can see why hes trying to fit Kante in but it hasnt always worked. I think he has to play with a Jorginho or Kovacic in either a 2 or on the right of a 3 with Jorginho as a 6. He isnt necessarily in one fixed position he can get up and down a bit more as well as hunt the ball down in those areas of the pitch. Obviously he is top quality but shoehorning him into that fixed position in a 3 man MF in front of the defence isn't always going to suit his game or ours if we play smaller teams and have much more of the ball.

Superbly said man, agree all the way. I know a few here cant stand him but I loved his passion and work ethic, proper manager. yes look at his Inter, he instantly transformed them, instantly. FL has alot to learn and thats fair, but progress must be seen and visible. Sadly our organisation and ability to defend has been very bad since the first day vs udt, some might say its even worse now. Its a coaching issue and if we fuck up top4 its exactly down to that. Im still baffled we dont know our first 11, you cant have any stability when you chop and change every game. JUst give us that top 4 and hope we can rectify it with better personel and managing.

[killer1257 3,282]

Not only that mate but they were managed much better, Conte worked around their weaknesses, making sure we move as a unit etc. Im very much looking forward what lineup Lamps will go for this time, surely he aint gonna persist like this. Play Jorgo KOva and Mount, bring Zouma in, start with Giroud. We'll see.

Yes, that may be true that he transformed us as a defensive unit, but we were not great at all as a offensive unit, especially in his second season. Conte can't play offensive like Pep or Klopp can and Pep can't let his teams play like Conte. Every coach has different skill sets and Frank is more of an offensive coach, which is okay but he needs to implement his way of playing at Chelsea because now I think he wants to play safe like Mourinho

 

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[Vesper 27,282]

Here is a cold hard truth 

At this exact minute

None of our 6 CB's are good enough. 

Not Rüdiger, not AC, not Zouma, not Tomori, not Guehi, and not Ampadu. 

Combine that with 3 of our 4 fullbacks being poor defensively (only Azpi is good there) and a truly PIECE OF SHIT GK, and we are well fucked atm.

It isn't like this board (TC) has not been warning for ages on this. Rüdiger's regression has been the straw that broke the camel's back,  alone with the diastrous Kepa buy and 7 years of FAIL at LB (no Conte's system doesn't count as a non fail as his wingbacks are more wingers and/or wide attacking MFers than fullbacks.)

I am at wits end.

Normally I shake off a regular season league loss the next day, but this one and that fucking NUFC last minute cough-up haunt me, plus the same for the Bournemouth loss AND the draw, plus the OTHER West Ham loss  and the BHO draw. 4 absolute shit teams we collapsed against late on. Add in the Sheff U draw late collapse too.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

[Atomiswave 6,072]

45 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Yes, that may be true that he transformed us as a defensive unit, but we were not great at all as a offensive unit, especially in his second season. Conte can't play offensive like Pep or Klopp can and Pep can't let his teams play like Conte. Every coach has different skill sets and Frank is more of an offensive coach, which is okay but he needs to implement his way of playing at Chelsea because now I think he wants to play safe like Mourinho

 

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We were good enough offensively up untill Jan in his second season, after that I agree we sucked ass, by that time it was done and dusted thanks to many things. In his first season we were amazing offensively, that was a proper team that under Conte. Yes FL is more than welcome to have his style which as you said is rather offensive, but you can have a good defence atthe same time, we sadly dont cuz the players suck and Lamps and Jordi have no clue how to set us up so that it works both ways....not yet anyway.

[killer1257 3,282]

We were good enough offensively up untill Jan in his second season, after that I agree we sucked ass, by that time it was done and dusted thanks to many things. In his first season we were amazing offensively, that was a proper team that under Conte. Yes FL is more than welcome to have his style which as you said is rather offensive, but you can have a good defence atthe same time, we sadly dont cuz the players suck and Lamps and Jordi have no clue how to set us up so that it works both ways....not yet anyway.

Yes but Conte had Costa Cesc and Hazard in his prime. Conte still underperformed offensively in my opinion. Lampard has only Pulisic, who is mostly injured.
Even in the offensive area, Lampard has way worse players. Conte had prime Azpi and also prime Cahill in his first season.

Our squad got worse over the time

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[Vesper 27,282]

A big mistake that young managers make is that they trust training play too much versus actual game play.

Lamps playing Barkley and a wretchedly out of form RLC is a testament to that I would think. Plus Willian and Alonso have been run into the ground. Damn Emerson for being so shit. 

[Vesper 27,282]

3 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Rüdiger and AC are as bad as Mustafi.

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AC was not nearly as bad as Rudiger, but he did not have a great game at all.

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

If Lampard is seriously pissed off, neither Rudiger, Tammy, or Kante will play Saturday. 

[killer1257 3,282]

A big mistake that young managers make is that they trust training play too much versus actual game play.
Lamps playing Barkley and a wretchedly out of form RLC is a testament to that I would think. Plus Willian and Alonso have been run into the ground. Damn Emerson for being so shit. [emoji20]

I think RLC did better yesterday. He looks rusty with the ball though, but overall way better performance than last two weaks as left winger. Don't forget that he did not train with the ball for months after Corona. He only did endurance, sprinting and body exercises. I believe in Ruben to get better. Step by step.

I am probably the only one that thinks Emerson is better than Alonso. Emerson pre injury was our best fullback and when Hazard was here, their understanding was very nice. Hazard almost never passed to Alonso because Alonso is that bad

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[killer1257 3,282]

If Lampard is seriously pissed off, neither Rudiger, Tammy, or Kante will play Saturday. 

Kante will play. 100%

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[Vesper 27,282]

16 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

 

 

I think RLC did better yesterday. He looks rusty with the ball though, but overall way better performance than last two weaks as left winger. Don't forget that he did not train with the ball for months after Corona. He only did endurance, sprinting and body exercises. I believe in Ruben to get better. Step by step.

I am probably the only one that thinks Emerson is better than Alonso. Emerson pre injury was our best fullback and when Hazard was here, their understanding was very nice. Hazard almost never passed to Alonso because Alonso is that bad

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we never had Emerson pre injury

we bought damaged goods

gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Board!!

[killer1257 3,282]

we never had Emerson pre injury
we bought damaged goods
gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Board!!

With pre injury Emerson, I mean before he injured his hamstring. In the end of last season and at the beginning of this season, he belonged to the best FBs. Then he injured his hamstring and never regained form lol

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[whats happening 1,439]

we wouldnt even buy emerson if it wasnt an injury

[killer1257 3,282]

What about last season with Sarri? And here I thought we can't go any worse than Sarri. Our defense is atrocious. 
Yes I will call out Lampard hard of this because yesterday he picked the worst possible CB combo when need to be solid at the back, and not once but TWICE allowed Azpi to mark Soucek. I'm still fuming about last night on how we played and how we set up.
Kante, Christensen, Rudiger (that fecking lazy bum) and Abraham should be dropped against Watford. I wish I can add Kepa too but we are stuck with him.

Sarri had prime Hazard for a whole season. Lampard only had Puli maybe half of the season fit.

But yes, Lamps needs to improve his line up, but many people here thought Rüdiger is near world class (I did not) and they only started to realise that he might not be that great. Lampard may realise this now too

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[Vesper 27,282]

4 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

With pre injury Emerson, I mean before he injured his hamstring. In the end of last season and at the beginning of this season, he belonged to the best FBs. Then he injured his hamstring and never regained form lol

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he has never been the player he was at Roma before he blew out his knee

Roma defender Emerson suffers anterior cruciate ligament injury

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/roma-defender-emerson-suffers-anterior-cruciate-ligament-injury

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Not only that mate but they were managed much better, Conte worked around their weaknesses, making sure we move as a unit etc. Im very much looking forward what lineup Lamps will go for this time, surely he aint gonna persist like this. Play Jorgo KOva and Mount, bring Zouma in, start with Giroud. We'll see.

Ahh mate. Fair enough conte's second season was a bit boring (though FA Cup win still!) But fuck me we were so defensively. Moving like the birds do in formation lol

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[Supermonkey92 1,428]

AC was not nearly as bad as Rudiger, but he did not have a great game at all.

I think Christensen deserves all the blame for West ham's second goal.

So fucking dopey. What was he doing, leaving the striker for azpi?

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