Super Frank Thread

[NikkiCFC 8,121]

5 points lost lately in the last minutes... Brighton, Newcastle, Arsenal. Plus Sheffield United earlier. We lack mentality big time. 

[Special Juan 27,611]

Lack mentality, leaders, a clinical striker, big players hiding and aggression.

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 22/01/2020 at 11:32, NikkiCFC said:

5 points lost lately in the last minutes... Brighton, Newcastle, Arsenal. Plus Sheffield United earlier. We lack mentality big time. 

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I'm pretty sure we're the worst in the league or certainly amongst the bottom teams for goals conceded in the last 15 minutes of games this season.

A lot of this will likely come from a combination of our players tiring and fading from the constant pushing we're having to do to try and score, and also the encouragement we're offering opposition to take the game to us in the final quarter of the game for not taking our chances and killing games off.

But even then that's when some character and leadership should come into play and unfortunately at present we don't have enough of it in this team.

[Tomo 21,741]

Frank has over egged the chances we've been creating and wasting during the bad results in December however last night it was a legimate excuse (the graph below). People will no doubt counter me saying "oh XG doesn't change things" and in terms of the result you would be right but it's as accurate as you can hope anything to be in terms of foreshadowing the future.

For example, according to XG City were going to dominate the league as soon as they replaced Bravo, they were right. Spurs were going to drop like a stone at some point, they were right. We were going to fall after our 15 title, they were right. United were going to fall in Jose's third season, they were right. Emery's spell at Arsenal wasn't sustainable, they were right. Liverpool were not far off a title challenge post 17/18, they were right. Infact I can't remember any times it foreshadowed things inaccurately, not spectacularly so anyway.

It's incredibly frustrating that were conceding nearly every chance we concede and waste so many openings, but 99% of the time if you're regularly outperforming or underperforming your XG you eventually even out.

[communicate 2,703]

  On 22/01/2020 at 15:36, Tomo said:

Frank has over egged the chances we've been creating and wasting during the bad results in December however last night it was a legimate excuse (the graph below). People will no doubt counter me saying "oh XG doesn't change things" and in terms of the result you would be right but it's as accurate as you can hope anything to be in terms of foreshadowing the future.

For example, according to XG City were going to dominate the league as soon as they replaced Bravo, they were right. Spurs were going to drop like a stone at some point, they were right. We were going to fall after our 15 title, they were right. United were going to fall in Jose's third season, they were right. Emery's spell at Arsenal wasn't sustainable, they were right. Liverpool were not far off a title challenge post 17/18, they were right. Infact I can't remember any times it foreshadowed things inaccurately, not spectacularly so anyway.

It's incredibly frustrating that were conceding nearly every chance we concede and waste so many openings, but 99% of the time if you're regularly outperforming or underperforming your XG you eventually even out.

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We played against 10 men up 1-0 early against team who is awful defensively. 

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:00, communicate said:

We played against 10 men up 1-0 early against team who is awful defensively. 

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Picking out part of my post and ignoring the overall context.

[communicate 2,703]

  On 22/01/2020 at 00:55, Tomo said:

Bit of both, i have has shade at me thrown at Willian from both angles, for example I don't think he was as great as made out in 15/16 but equally I've never been in on the mass slating and was probably the only one on his side in that phony war with Conte (although that was more down to the fact I seriously grew to resent Antonio by then because in my opinion he took the piss out of every single Chelsea fan in those last days, especially the ones who went to The Ethiad).

I don't think I've ever been so systematically branded both an apologist and a hater of the same person.

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With William it is pretty simple. Fans want their winger to score goals and create assist. He is not number guy so he is suck. For me it is very simple, Willian is good at what he does. To balance him, you need to add number guy around him (hazard, cesc) 

[communicate 2,703]

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:04, Tomo said:

Picking out part of my post and ignoring the overall context.

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I like xg Stat, but I honestly don't care about stat when you are pretty much given red carpet for easy 3 points after 26min at home. 

[Tomo 21,741]

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:18, Mana said:

I don't understand how City replacing Bravo improves their "xG". Bravo has no impact in how City attack, just how they leak goals.

And while I have a basic understanding of xG, I still don't understand fully what xG is all about. Predicted goals?

Also what are you trying to tell us? Chelsea's current "xG" is going to win us the league next season?

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I never at any point said we will win the league next season, but it also aptly demonstrates that were not heading in a black hole of irrelevance either.

City were conceding way way more than they usual would due to Bravo being unable to save a thing (for example we escaped from The Ethiad with a 3-1 win despite being outplayed thanks to him) it was fairly clear even then they were going to be formidable once that was fixed and they were. As I said XG is about as close to accurate foreshadowing as it's possible to get and it suggests that things are noway near as bad as it looks now just like it wasn't as good as it looked when we won 6 games on the spin that led to the unrealistic expectations of a title challenge.

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:20, communicate said:

I like xg Stat, but I honestly don't care about stat when you are pretty much given red carpet for easy 3 points after 26min at home. 

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In terms of the match in itself I agree and have stated such numerous times, however people seem to be using this match as some yardstick of decline which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Lamps really has to watch out regarding our spirit in this coming hell fixtures......our spirits must remain high and not get amputated, Theres no prosthetics for that shit.

[Nicco 927]

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:30, Atomiswave said:

Lamps really has to watch out regarding our spirit in this coming hell fixtures......our spirits must remain high and not get amputated, Theres no prosthetics for that shit.

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As far as I'm concerned he already killed the spirit among many of the fans, maybe the players still believe in him but they aren't showing anything for it anyways.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 22/01/2020 at 11:10, Superblue_1986 said:

I think it comes from a panic of being unable to break a team down that play deep. We usually start games well for the first 20-30 minutes and look bright but once we get past that initial period if we can't break a team down that structure seems to be lost. There's probably a bit of being naive from both players and Lampard with this, but the players seem to get their confidence drained if we can't make our domination count. 

Since the international break we have struggled badly for confidence and it's really frustrating why we haven't been able to pick back up our form from prior to this. Some players look jaded and may be carrying knocks, and others are just woefully out of form.

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Is it panic or is not enough work being done in training in trying to break defensive teams now? Because the default approach these days just seems to be putting crosses in and hoping something sticks. The fact that James, who is only 20 years old, is talked as the main weapon, the main creator because of his crosses says a lot. I know our squad aren't perfect in terms of quality but where is the combination play, where is the movement of players dragging people around to create space and chances for others, where is the quick passing and movement? If our main play is basically dumping crosses into the box, then we are seriously fucked going forward. In regards to players looking jaded, you gotta wonder if the players are being overworked by Lampard in training because there have been a tad too many muscle injuries or just injuries in general suffered in training this season. 

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 22/01/2020 at 16:59, Jason said:

Is it panic or is not enough work being done in training in trying to break defensive teams now? Because the default approach these days just seems to be putting crosses in and hoping something sticks. The fact that James, who is only 20 years old, is talked as the main weapon, the main creator because of his crosses says a lot. I know our squad aren't perfect in terms of quality but where is the combination play, where is the movement of players dragging people around to create space and chances for others, where is the quick passing and movement? If our main play is basically dumping crosses into the box, then we are seriously fucked going forward. In regards to players looking jaded, you gotta wonder if the players are being overworked by Lampard in training because there have been a tad too many muscle injuries or just injuries in general suffered in training this season. 

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Personally I believe it's more to do with the mentality of the team at present not confident in themselves than the training because earlier in the season showed us capable of everything you've said.

I'm not too concerned with Reece James being one of our biggest weapons. You could argue Liverpool's main creative weapon over the last couple of years has been Trent within a similar age bracket to Reece.

I don't mind getting the ball into the box from wide positions when we're packing the box. If the full backs are crossing in at the very least we need 3, ideally 4 players in the box attacking the crosses. We regularly only have Tammy isolated in the box. When you only have one player to aim for most of the time it's not going to be as successful as it should be. That's an area that Lampard needs to work on the players desire and mentality to attack the box and think more directly. He's ironically the best player I've seen timing his runs into the box to get on the end of chances and he needs to be working on some of the players to try and learn and understand this trait.

I do think once we show some form of a threat from wide areas it makes teams think twice about just pushing us wide and helps to open up the possibilities of attacking and creating more in central areas.

Good final point on how the players look jaded. One thing I would imagine Lampard would demand is hard work and intense training sessions.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 22/01/2020 at 17:13, Superblue_1986 said:

Personally I believe it's more to do with the mentality of the team at present not confident in themselves than the training because earlier in the season showed us capable of everything you've said.

I'm not too concerned with Reece James being one of our biggest weapons. You could argue Liverpool's main creative weapon over the last couple of years has been Trent within a similar age bracket to Reece.

I don't mind getting the ball into the box from wide positions when we're packing the box. If the full backs are crossing in at the very least we need 3, ideally 4 players in the box attacking the crosses. We regularly only have Tammy isolated in the box. When you only have one player to aim for most of the time it's not going to be as successful as it should be. That's an area that Lampard needs to work on the players desire and mentality to attack the box and think more directly. He's ironically the best player I've seen timing his runs into the box to get on the end of chances and he needs to be working on some of the players to try and learn and understand this trait.

I do think once we show some form of a threat from wide areas it makes teams think twice about just pushing us wide and helps to open up the possibilities of attacking and creating more in central areas.

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I don't have a problem with James being one of our biggest weapons but I have a problem if James becomes the ONLY weapon in the team, because as I said, our approach of late just seems to be dumping crosses in. 

You might be right in that the players might not be confident right now but at the end of the day, only they can change the team's fortunes and we need them to. We need them to step up and take responsibility, especially the senior players. With the young players, one can perhaps cut them some slack but not the senior players. It feels like they are hiding behind the 'young team' excuse because no one is owning up to it. 

[Superblue 6,372]

  On 22/01/2020 at 17:21, Jason said:

I don't have a problem with James being one of our biggest weapons but I have a problem if James becomes the ONLY weapon in the team, because as I said, our approach of late just seems to be dumping crosses in. 

You might be right in that the players might not be confident right now but at the end of the day, only they can change the team's fortunes and we need them to. We need them to step up and take responsibility, especially the senior players. With the young players, one can perhaps cut them some slack but not the senior players. It feels like they are hiding behind the 'young team' excuse because no one is owning up to it. 

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The problem is without a similar threat down the left hand side, and Reece struggling to stay fit for a solid run of games this season, we do become predictable out wide because our full backs aren't good enough. It also then means the wide players and/or Mount are more likely to stay or drift wide too to help the full backs attack those spaces. The likes of Man City and Liverpool's full backs attack and exploit the spaces left by the wide players cutting in and going into the box and ours don't seem to do that currently.

Couldn't agree more about the final statement. It's easy to be critical of the likes of Mount and Tammy at present when they're struggling a bit but both scored important goals and were key players when we were playing well. It almost feels like we're leaning on the likes of them to get us out of this hole when in reality they need the experienced players to step up. Unfortunately the likes of Jorginho, Kovacic and Willian aren't playing at the level they were earlier in the season, and Kante is having an overall pretty poor season. Some of these have to show their mettle and personality on this team to get us out of this slump of form.

[Tomo 21,741]

Hopefully Lampard subbing Kante off is not punishing him for the slip but instead finally acknowledging he shouldn't be untouchable and in games we have to take the initiative there's simply better options.

We simply have to be looking at a Jorgi/Kova/Mount or Jorgi/Barkley/Mount midfield in shithouse situations like this (swap Barkley for Ruben if by some miracle he's up to full speed anytime soon).

[pHaRaOn 2,131]

 

 

 

 

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  On 22/01/2020 at 17:48, Tomo said:

Hopefully Lampard subbing Kante off is not punishing him for the slip but instead finally acknowledging he shouldn't be untouchable and in games we have to take the initiative there's simply better options.

We simply have to be looking at a Jorgi/Kova/Mount or Jorgi/Barkley/Mount midfield in shithouse situations like this (swap Barkley for Ruben if by some miracle he's up to full speed anytime soon).

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Unlikely. After the game, Lampard said that things like that can happen and it's not Kante's mistake. He also said that Kante shouldn't be blamed for that slip.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 22/01/2020 at 17:51, pHaRaOn said:

Unlikely. After the game, Lampard said that things like that can happen and it's not Kante's mistake. He also said that Kante shouldn't be blamed for that slip.

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The slip by Kante was unfortunate but Lampard is doing his best not to do anything abnormal to upset Kante and the masses, isn't he? Praises Kante when he plays poorly and was cautious with his answer when asked about Kante and midfield options after the Burnley game - 'Gotta be careful with Kante because we know what he brings...' (paraphrasing).