Christian Pulisic

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 04/04/2021 at 09:28, Jason said:

At the risk of starting another debate of the quality of leagues, think it's easier for Bayern to get away with those injuries to Robben in the Bundesliga than we will with Pulisic in the Premier League.

We know the talent is there with Pulisic but given his injury record, it's debatable whether we can build the team around him or build the team with him being a key figure in the starting XI, because we can't keep having someone who plays 5 games, gets injured, misses 10 games and then takes I don't know 5-10 games to get back into some sort of form. 

I'm sure the club were aware of his injury record when they bought him and the physios etc are trying to figure out his injury problems but whether it's truly fixable is another question. Part of the reason why he was bought was also down to his nationality. Some players, unfortunately, are just injury prone in their career. If it can't be solved and he becomes like Robben, then we'll have the issues I mentioned above. 

Have we really looked devoid of ideas without Pulisic? I know we have been crap in the attacking third but I don't think it's gotten to the point where we can't make do without Pulisic. We have had good games this season under Tuchel and even Lampard without Pulisic playing. Let's not also forget that he played a lot of games from December till Lampard got the sack in January, for example, and nothing really changed then. And we were over reliant on Pulisic last season because he caught a purple patch and that Lampard started prioritizing short term results after the restart but I'd hate to see us being so reliant on one player again. 

And this is not an excuse, a praise or whatever but it's funny that Werner is not a creator and was bought to score goals but has more assists in all competitions than anyone in the team this season - 8 or 11, depending on whether you want to count penalties - while being the third highest goalscorer in the squad.

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Perhaps. Also Bayern had that well renowned medical team and the Dr/chief medical officer who was pretty much seen as a revolutionary in terms of sports medicine and science. I think he has found some interesting cures for other elite sportsmen and footballers to get over injuries. 

And again I do agree, he needs to be playing regularly. Or find a way to cut down the inevitable run of games he seems to need to get up to speed but I suppose that is also matched up to his injuries at times and getting match fitness.

I just think hes able to give us something different, like Hudson-Odoi also, in terms of being able to take the ball and beat players to create spaces. And theres been plenty of games where this sort of thing is exactly what we need, particularly against low blocks, someone to isolate a player and get past them. The playing through these is also critical but I think, these guys, who are able to size someone up in a 1 v 1 are still as valuable  as these players who pick the ball up and play between the lines or the passes in behind a team. Theres just been games where these passes dont happen or theres no space and you want someone who can come on beat a man or two and make something out of nothing in and around the box, Pulisic has that skillset and it could be a huge asset. 

While the majority of those 8 assists Timo has, have came after November (6 I think?), only 3 have been under TT and he’s played virtually 90% of the games. I must admit, obviously I am disappointed Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz dont have much this season as well as Werner. Ziyech particularly I felt would of added something different and actually complimented playing with a Pulisic for instance. A more direct winger who excels in 1 v 1s then someone who maybe could be seen more as a wide 10 than an actual winger. There are signs hes warming up though slightly.

Edited April 4, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Jase 43,479]

  On 04/04/2021 at 10:25, OneMoSalah said:

Perhaps. Also Bayern had that well renowned medical team and the Dr/chief medical officer who was pretty much seen as a revolutionary in terms of sports medicine and science. I think he has found some interesting cures for other elite sportsmen and footballers to get over injuries. 

And again I do agree, he needs to be playing regularly. Or find a way to cut down the inevitable run of games he seems to need to get up to speed but I suppose that is also matched up to his injuries at times and getting match fitness.

I just think hes able to give us something different, like Hudson-Odoi also, in terms of being able to take the ball and beat players to create spaces. And theres been plenty of games where this sort of thing is exactly what we need, particularly against low blocks, someone to isolate a player and get past them. The playing through these is also critical but I think, these guys, who are able to size someone up in a 1 v 1 are still as valuable  as these players who pick the ball up and play between the lines or the passes in behind a team. Theres just been games where these passes dont happen or theres no space and you want someone who can come on beat a man or two and make something out of nothing in and around the box, Pulisic has that skillset and it could be a huge asset. 

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I can't tell if you're being hopeful or clutching at straws. 😛

Agree with your points there but pretty sure Pulisic isn't the only player around that can do what he does. Since people like to talk about swap deals, I saw some suggestions elsewhere about doing a Pulisic-Sancho swap. If doable, would you take it? Not saying we should give up on him yet and I don't think anything is gonna happen with him this summer but if injuries continued to plague him over the next year or so, then we might have to start thinking of alternatives. 

  On 04/04/2021 at 10:25, OneMoSalah said:

While the majority of those 8 assists Timo has, have came after November (6 I think?), only 3 have been under TT and he’s played virtually 90% of the games. I must admit, obviously I am disappointed Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz dont have much this season as well as Werner. Ziyech particularly I felt would of added something different and actually complimented playing with a Pulisic for instance. A more direct winger who excels in 1 v 1s then someone who maybe could be seen more as a wide 10 than an actual winger. There are signs hes warming up though slightly.

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Yes, 3 excluding penalties (6 otherwise) under Tuchel and that's still more than anyone in that same period, I think. He may have played more than Ziyech, Pulisic and Havertz but less than Mount. So... 🤷‍♂️ 

Does playing Pulisic on one side and Ziyech on the other really work? I remember Lampard tried to replicate the Quincy Promes(IIRC)-Ziyech combo with Werner-Ziyech earlier this season. Ziyech would look to make the passes or crosses(!!!) from the right while Werner makes the runs from the left to get on the end of those balls. 

[NikkiCFC 8,122]

  On 04/04/2021 at 10:25, OneMoSalah said:

I must admit, obviously I am disappointed Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz dont have much this season as well as Werner.

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Havertz is not that bad. Werner has 8 assists and won 3 penalties. Havertz has 5 assists and won 2 pens. But played +1100 less minutes. Which is more than 12 games.

I am happy with Werner about this. Definitely the best thing about his game this season.

And I am not surprised with this. Last season in Leipzig he also had more assists than any Chelsea player in 19/20 season. 

[Jase 43,479]

So, it was just a scare and not an injury but this quote from Tuchel highlights the fragility of Pulisic's hamstring problem...

 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,598]

He has tweeked his hamstring so much I am sure he knows to the minute when it will cramp and tear. Not a good thing, it probably gets in his head.

[MoroccanBlue 5,322]

Lad's entire summer should be focused on hamstring strengthening. 

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

  On 06/04/2021 at 14:26, MoroccanBlue said:

Lad's entire summer should be focused on hamstring strengthening. 

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He should learn the nordic hamstring curl. absurdly effective strengthening and lengthening exercise for the hams. Always used to have niggling hamstring tendons but completely shut them down once I learned the Nordic.

[MoroccanBlue 5,322]

  On 06/04/2021 at 17:41, Magic Lamps said:

He should learn the nordic hamstring curl. absurdly effective strengthening and lengthening exercise for the hams. Always used to have niggling hamstring tendons but completely shut them down once I learned the Nordic.

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Yup. That specific exercise cured Micah Richard's hamstring issues. Turns your proximal hamstrings into metal, vastly reducing the number of issues within the entire hamstring. 

[Jase 43,479]

  On 06/04/2021 at 18:01, MoroccanBlue said:

Yup. That specific exercise cured Micah Richard's hamstring issues. Turns your proximal hamstrings into metal, vastly reducing the number of issues within the entire hamstring. 

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That method has been around, right? One would think the medical staff - be it ours, Dortmund's or USMNT - would have explored that option for Pulisic by now?

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

  On 06/04/2021 at 18:32, Jason said:

That method has been around, right? One would think the medical staff - be it ours, Dortmund's or USMNT - would have explored that option for Pulisic by now?

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The Nordic hamstring curl itself is ancient but relatively new in preventive physiotherapy. Relatively new in such a field means like 10 years tho. Still bar Micah Richards I have never seen a football player perform it. One has to keep in mind that a lot of the conditioning routines that are used in English (and German for that matter) top flight football are very outdated. Just look at the pre-match warm up stretching routines they do. Those are rather traditional to say the least. We used to do the very same routines in our kids' footy matches 20 years ago.  A lot of those stretches are proven to be ineffective or even harmful esp the way they warm up their hip flexors and mobilize their spines.

Hence, I do think that clubs all over Europe would benefit from more progressive methods that sadly arrive in Europe with a bit of time lag. US sports trainers and therapists appear to be a lot more advanced. That being said, the Nordic curl is a very advanced exercise even for elite athletes. I have been doing fitness and strength training for 10 years now and can not yet do a full ROM Nordic after months of practice. Amidst all the travelling and regular training it will take a dedicated and concerted effort from the conditioning staff to work him through a progression. Usually off-season as @MoroccanBlue said would be the perfect opportunity to learn the movement. So whilst even the Nordic can not protect you from injury through trauma it shold prevent all those strains Pulisic suffers without impact. So, I do think that Pulisic is unlikely to have mastered the Nordic yet but he would profit greatly from it.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Magic Lamps

[killer1257 3,282]

  On 06/04/2021 at 19:09, Magic Lamps said:

The Nordic hamstring curl itself is ancient but relatively new in preventive physiotherapy. Relatively new in such a field means like 10 years tho. Still bar Micah Richards I have never seen a football player perform it. One has to keep in mind that a lot of the conditioning routines that are used in English (and German for that matter) top flight football are very outdated. Just look at the pre-match warm up stretching routines they do. Those are rather traditional to say the least. We used to do the very same routines in our kids' footy matches 20 years ago.  A lot of those stretches are proven to be ineffective or even harmful esp the way they warm up their hip flexors and mobilize their spines.

Hence, I do think that clubs all over Europe would benefit from more progressive methods that sadly arrive in Europe with a bit of time lag. US sports trainers and therapists appear to be a lot more advanced. That being said, the Nordic curl is a very advanced exercise even for elite athletes. I have been doing fitness and strength training for 10 years now and can not yet do a full ROM Nordic after months of practice. Amidst all the travelling and regular training it will take a dedicated and concerted effort from the conditioning staff to work him through a progression. Usually off-season as @MoroccanBlue said would be the perfect opportunity to learn the movement. So whilst even the Nordic can not protect you from injury through trauma it shold prevent all those strains Pulisic suffers without impact. So, I do think that Pulisic is unlikely to have mastered the Nordic yet but he would profit greatly from it.

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Riyad Mahrez used to do this excercise at Leicester. I also want to learn the nordic, but without a partner or a nordic bench, I can't do this excercise. 

[Magic Lamps 11,677]

  On 06/04/2021 at 20:01, killer1257 said:

Riyad Mahrez used to do this excercise at Leicester. I also want to learn the nordic, but without a partner or a nordic bench, I can't do this excercise. 

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Maybe you can try to knot each end of a towel and slide them under a door so there is a sling on the other side of the door where you can put your feet through.

[NikkiCFC 8,122]

Based on last 4 games (he played just once more than 45 minutes) he is slowly getting back. 

Last season he won his place from the bench. I feel he is doing it now again. 

We need for last part of the season best possible Pulisic, we saw what he can do in restart. 

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 04/04/2021 at 11:22, Jason said:

I can't tell if you're being hopeful or clutching at straws. 😛

Agree with your points there but pretty sure Pulisic isn't the only player around that can do what he does. Since people like to talk about swap deals, I saw some suggestions elsewhere about doing a Pulisic-Sancho swap. If doable, would you take it? Not saying we should give up on him yet and I don't think anything is gonna happen with him this summer but if injuries continued to plague him over the next year or so, then we might have to start thinking of alternatives. 

Yes, 3 excluding penalties (6 otherwise) under Tuchel and that's still more than anyone in that same period, I think. He may have played more than Ziyech, Pulisic and Havertz but less than Mount. So... 🤷‍♂️ 

Does playing Pulisic on one side and Ziyech on the other really work? I remember Lampard tried to replicate the Quincy Promes(IIRC)-Ziyech combo with Werner-Ziyech earlier this season. Ziyech would look to make the passes or crosses(!!!) from the right while Werner makes the runs from the left to get on the end of those balls. 

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Pulisic for Sancho? Hmm maybe I would take it but again, I still think Pulisic’s ceiling as a player is incredibly high. Obviously Sancho’s is as well and hes home grown so always an extra point but I think getting him will be even more costy than Pulisic. Who’s to even say Dortmund would take Pulisic back? They didnt play him on loan very often once we signed him. 

Mount maybe hasn’t ironed our his final ball as we keep mentioning when he’s brought up but for a young player, the effect he’s had on games this season has been huge and probably been better than anyone else has for us. Theres no doubt we look worse without Mount, we lack a link between MF and attack when he doesn’t play and he’s scored two big goals for us this season in games of great significance. Obviously 2 doesn’t sound that impressive. Yes he can score more and assist more but hes 22, in a Chelsea team where he still stands out and makes more experienced and players who are further on in their developments contribution look minimal.  

The Ziyech-Promes relationship was the one I was precisely meaning. I think Tuchel is maybe better equipped to try get that from the players than Frank ever was, maybe it will work maybe not, seen enough of Pulisic last season coming into the box from wide areas though to know that he can contribute goals from those sort of areas. Or even being in the penalty box as you see/have seen with wingers from the Bundesliga a lot.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 07/04/2021 at 21:25, OneMoSalah said:

Pulisic for Sancho? Hmm maybe I would take it but again, I still think Pulisic’s ceiling as a player is incredibly high. Obviously Sancho’s is as well and hes home grown so always an extra point but I think getting him will be even more costy than Pulisic. Who’s to even say Dortmund would take Pulisic back? They didnt play him on loan very often once we signed him. 

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Am just suggesting it if things get worse.

  On 07/04/2021 at 21:25, OneMoSalah said:

Mount maybe hasn’t ironed our his final ball as we keep mentioning when he’s brought up but for a young player, the effect he’s had on games this season has been huge and probably been better than anyone else has for us. Theres no doubt we look worse without Mount, we lack a link between MF and attack when he doesn’t play and he’s scored two big goals for us this season in games of great significance. Obviously 2 doesn’t sound that impressive. Yes he can score more and assist more but hes 22, in a Chelsea team where he still stands out and makes more experienced and players who are further on in their developments contribution look minimal.  

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The bold part is debatable. 

 

[OneMoSalah 8,834]

  On 07/04/2021 at 21:28, Jason said:

Am just suggesting it if things get worse.

The bold part is debatable. 

 

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Well I suppose it depends on his injuries. But I wouldn’t be so sure to say that we should be concerned yet. Obviously concerned enough hes not always available as I think hes still our best attacking player probably if last season was anything to go on but I mean more with regards to offloading him.

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

I don’t see how anyone could not see Mount’s value even more so after tonight. He didnt have a great game but he made the difference when it mattered, when Porto were all over us. Set another chance up for Timo also for the header in the second half with an inch perfect cross. The majority of our good actions tend to involve him. Thats not to say as a 22 year old playing in the PL for his second season running he cannot have inconsistencies. He had only ever played for Vitesse and Derby beforehand.

[Jase 43,479]

  On 07/04/2021 at 22:03, OneMoSalah said:

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

I don’t see how anyone could not see Mount’s value even more so after tonight. He didnt have a great game but he made the difference when it mattered, when Porto were all over us. Set another chance up for Timo also for the header in the second half with an inch perfect cross. The majority of our good actions tend to involve him. Thats not to say as a 22 year old playing in the PL for his second season running he cannot have inconsistencies. He had only ever played for Vitesse and Derby beforehand.

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We had two good team performances against Everton and Atletico recently and those were without Mount. Not saying Mount is bad but am not subscribing to the idea that we can't make do without him because he's not at that level...yet maybe. 

[NikkiCFC 8,122]

  On 07/04/2021 at 22:03, OneMoSalah said:

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

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But do you agree our two best games under Tuchel have been Atletico and Everton at home? I think definitely in terms of attacking play. It just looked more fluid. We created a lot of chances and could have scored much more.

Even today last 10 minutes without him we had Pulisic post and scored goal and controlled the game much better. In first half apart from his goal we did not have any attempts on goal.

He was definitely better than German boys today. It just feels that team with Mount as one of front 3 players cannot be high scoring team.

You said he can assist but he has zero open play assists this season in PL. Last season also just 2 in full season all comps. Even earlier in the season with Frank our three 4:0 wins against Palace, Sevilla and Krasnodar came without him.

By saying this, he deserves to play more often than not but biggest reason are also other players. 

Pulisic is not playing like last season when he was on Hazard level at times, Werner is not 25 goals per season striker we all expected, and Ziyech did not show even glimpses of what we hoped for. Havartz as well.

I am happy with Mount under Tuchel because he is regular member of the squad like everyone else which was not the case under Lampard. If he deserves to play he will play if other players hit the form probably not.