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10. Christian Pulisic


nachikethas
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On 04/04/2021 at 12:22, Jason said:

I can't tell if you're being hopeful or clutching at straws.¬†ūüėõ

Agree with your points there but pretty sure Pulisic isn't the only player around that can do what he does. Since people like to talk about swap deals, I saw some suggestions elsewhere about doing a Pulisic-Sancho swap. If doable, would you take it? Not saying we should give up on him yet and I don't think anything is gonna happen with him this summer but if injuries continued to plague him over the next year or so, then we might have to start thinking of alternatives. 

Yes, 3 excluding penalties (6 otherwise) under Tuchel and that's still more than anyone in that same period, I think. He may have played more than Ziyech, Pulisic and Havertz but less than Mount.¬†So...¬†ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ¬†

Does playing Pulisic on one side and Ziyech on the other really work? I remember Lampard tried to replicate the Quincy Promes(IIRC)-Ziyech combo with Werner-Ziyech earlier this season. Ziyech would look to make the passes or crosses(!!!) from the right while Werner makes the runs from the left to get on the end of those balls. 

Pulisic for Sancho? Hmm maybe I would take it but again, I still think Pulisic’s ceiling as a player is incredibly high. Obviously Sancho’s is as well and hes home grown so always an extra point but I think getting him will be even more costy than Pulisic. Who’s to even say Dortmund would take Pulisic back? They didnt play him on loan very often once we signed him. 

Mount maybe hasn’t ironed our his final ball as we keep mentioning when he’s brought up but for a young player, the effect he’s had on games this season has been huge and probably been better than anyone else has for us. Theres no doubt we look worse without Mount, we lack a link between MF and attack when he doesn’t play and he’s scored two big goals for us this season in games of great significance. Obviously 2 doesn’t sound that impressive. Yes he can score more and assist more but hes 22, in a Chelsea team where he still stands out and makes more experienced and players who are further on in their developments contribution look minimal.  

The Ziyech-Promes relationship was the one I was precisely meaning. I think Tuchel is maybe better equipped to try get that from the players than Frank ever was, maybe it will work maybe not, seen enough of Pulisic last season coming into the box from wide areas though to know that he can contribute goals from those sort of areas. Or even being in the penalty box as you see/have seen with wingers from the Bundesliga a lot.

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What a lovely little ball for the 4th that was.

Read an article today that shows at present his productivity with and without the ball is overall pretty poor compared to the other players in his position. He averages fewer tackles per 90 mins

Everyone has their opinion and I respect that but I just find his apprehension (if that's the right word) towards Pulisic somewhat bemusing. Loan him out to learn his trade? Really? If Pulisic was som

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1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Pulisic for Sancho? Hmm maybe I would take it but again, I still think Pulisic’s ceiling as a player is incredibly high. Obviously Sancho’s is as well and hes home grown so always an extra point but I think getting him will be even more costy than Pulisic. Who’s to even say Dortmund would take Pulisic back? They didnt play him on loan very often once we signed him. 

Am just suggesting it if things get worse.

1 minute ago, OneMoSalah said:

Mount maybe hasn’t ironed our his final ball as we keep mentioning when he’s brought up but for a young player, the effect he’s had on games this season has been huge and probably been better than anyone else has for us. Theres no doubt we look worse without Mount, we lack a link between MF and attack when he doesn’t play and he’s scored two big goals for us this season in games of great significance. Obviously 2 doesn’t sound that impressive. Yes he can score more and assist more but hes 22, in a Chelsea team where he still stands out and makes more experienced and players who are further on in their developments contribution look minimal.  

The bold part is debatable. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Jason said:

Am just suggesting it if things get worse.

The bold part is debatable. 

 

Well I suppose it depends on his injuries. But I wouldn’t be so sure to say that we should be concerned yet. Obviously concerned enough hes not always available as I think hes still our best attacking player probably if last season was anything to go on but I mean more with regards to offloading him.

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

I don’t see how anyone could not see Mount’s value even more so after tonight. He didnt have a great game but he made the difference when it mattered, when Porto were all over us. Set another chance up for Timo also for the header in the second half with an inch perfect cross. The majority of our good actions tend to involve him. Thats not to say as a 22 year old playing in the PL for his second season running he cannot have inconsistencies. He had only ever played for Vitesse and Derby beforehand.

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17 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

I don’t see how anyone could not see Mount’s value even more so after tonight. He didnt have a great game but he made the difference when it mattered, when Porto were all over us. Set another chance up for Timo also for the header in the second half with an inch perfect cross. The majority of our good actions tend to involve him. Thats not to say as a 22 year old playing in the PL for his second season running he cannot have inconsistencies. He had only ever played for Vitesse and Derby beforehand.

We had two good team performances against Everton and Atletico recently and those were without Mount. Not saying Mount is bad but am not subscribing to the idea that we can't make do without him because he's not at that level...yet maybe. 

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14 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I dont know, for me, when Mount plays we look a lot better. He can score or assist or create more chances and it will come but for me he is a key player here whether people like it or not. When he hits 10+ goal and 10+ assists in a season for the club maybe people will change their minds but if people cannot see or choose not to see the difference in the team with and without him then I can’t do anything about that.

But do you agree our two best games under Tuchel have been Atletico and Everton at home? I think definitely in terms of attacking play. It just looked more fluid. We created a lot of chances and could have scored much more.

Even today last 10 minutes without him we had Pulisic post and scored goal and controlled the game much better. In first half apart from his goal we did not have any attempts on goal.

He was definitely better than German boys today. It just feels that team with Mount as one of front 3 players cannot be high scoring team.

You said he can assist but he has zero open play assists this season in PL. Last season also just 2 in full season all comps. Even earlier in the season with Frank our three 4:0 wins against Palace, Sevilla and Krasnodar came without him.

By saying this, he deserves to play more often than not but biggest reason are also other players. 

Pulisic is not playing like last season when he was on Hazard level at times, Werner is not 25 goals per season striker we all expected, and Ziyech did not show even glimpses of what we hoped for. Havartz as well.

I am happy with Mount under Tuchel because he is regular member of the squad like everyone else which was not the case under Lampard. If he deserves to play he will play if other players hit the form probably not.

 

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27 minutes ago, Jason said:

We had two good team performances against Everton and Atletico recently and those were without Mount. Not saying Mount is bad but am not subscribing to the idea that we can't make do without him because he's not at that level...yet maybe. 

Those games were good yes but the game v Liverpool was probably just as good as those performances and he was one of the best players on the pitch? Also the first leg v Atletico, again Mason played very well.

Maybe we created more chances v Atletico 2nd leg and Everton but again, I still think we play much better with him. He takes the ball on the half turn and drives the team forward. He also gives the team a lot of energy and does the counter pressing side of things TT is big on very well. Obviously goal and assists etc can be better but will definitely come with time.

10 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But do you agree our two best games under Tuchel have been Atletico and Everton at home? I think definitely in terms of attacking play. It just looked more fluid. We created a lot of chances and could have scored much more.

Even today last 10 minutes without him we had Pulisic post and scored goal and controlled the game much better. In first half apart from his goal we did not have any attempts on goal.

He was definitely better than German boys today. It just feels that team with Mount as one of front 3 players cannot be high scoring team.

You said he can assist but he has zero open play assists this season in PL. Last season also just 2 in full season all comps. Even earlier in the season with Frank our three 4:0 wins against Palace, Sevilla and Krasnodar came without him.

By saying this, he deserves to play more often than not but biggest reason are also other players. 

Pulisic is not playing like last season when he was on Hazard level at times, Werner is not 25 goals per season striker we all expected, and Ziyech did not show even glimpses of what we hoped for. Havartz as well.

I am happy with Mount under Tuchel because he is regular member of the squad like everyone else which was not the case under Lampard. If he deserves to play he will play if other players hit the form probably not.

 

As mentioned above Liverpool and Atletico first leg were also good performances. For me Liverpool was equally as good as anything we’ve played this season I think it was very complete.

As I said hes 22, he can improve on scoring goals, or assisting or key passes etc but he’s a hugely vital player here and also was under Frank. Originally I felt Frank should have taken him out at the time he struggled last season but I dont think Frank played him undeservedly. Anyone living with this presumption still for me, to put it bluntly, is being ridiculous. I mean we spent 250m on players, a huge amount of that which went on on more offensive players..... yet Masons still one of our most frequently played players and was at the beginning of the season. Is it undeserved or is it just a stupid assumption made by people because they didnt have anything else to say? Maybe FL should have rested him as he accumulated a lot of minutes last season when he was having a bad run but this image he was given preferential treatment is a myth and Gareth Southgate basically called some Chelsea and other teams fans out basically saying Mount was always playing well and talented, and it shouldn’t have taken TT to come in and play him for people to see that. 

I think people are harsh on him because of his stats. Its not a given your always a good player if you have good stats or a bad player if you dont. Even then at 22 or under, show me number 10s recently with good stats in the PL?

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10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

 show me number 10s recently with good stats in the PL?

Lingard 6 goals 3 assists and 1 pen won in just 709 mins for WH. Strikers should be jealous of that stats. 

You have Maddison not to mention Bruno and KDB which should be standard we aim for in terms of AM. Truth being told not many teams play with AMs or number 10.

Gundogan, Soucek and Tielemans play deeper but should be in team of the season for me.

But in terms of Chelsea Mount deserves more praise because if you asked me before season what to expect from players I would say now Mount, Abraham and Olie did expected while Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz, Werner underperformed.

CHO is also fine. No one overachieved expectations.

 

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2 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Lingard 6 goals 3 assists and 1 pen won in just 709 mins for WH. Strikers should be jealous of that stats. 

You have Maddison not to mention Bruno and KDB which should be standard we aim for in terms of AM. Truth being told not many teams play with AMs or number 10.

Gundogan, Soucek and Tielemans play deeper but should be in team of the season for me.

But in terms of Chelsea Mount deserves more praise because if you asked me before season what to expect from players I would say now Mount, Abraham and Olie did expected while Ziyech, Pulisic, Havertz, Werner underperformed.

CHO is also fine. No one overachieved expectations.

 

Meant show me stats of number 10s who have played in the PL at aged 22 or under that are so much better... Dele Alli maybe only one I could think of in recent times.

I mean comparing anyone to Bruno Fernandes and KDB is unfair. Never mind a 22 year old who’s in his 4th season as a professional footballer at first team level.

And again for all the talk of Maddison, whilst he is currently a better player than Mason at present, he has only got 2 more PL goals and 2 more assists than Mason this season. In the 91 PL games Maddison has played he has 21 goals and 15 assists. Mason in the 66 he has played, 13 goals and 8 assists. So lets not pretend that Maddison is exactly putting up world class statistics and that he should he used to beat Mason’s quality or potential down with. Or the fact Maddison’s been a professional for 3 seasons longer and has more experience/further on in his development.

Who was the finished article age 22? Or even aged 24 for Maddison’s sake as well? You’d expect someone aged 24 with Maddison’s talent to be further on than Mason is probably due to the fact he’s been playing as a first team player more often, as well as having played in a smaller team where there isn’t the same demand or pressure where you have to win every game. That is no disrespect to Coventry, Norwich, Aberdeen or Leicester but coming through and playing at any of those is much easier than it is here for instance after being at Vitesse and Derby. The gap is bigger. Where as Maddison also played at a team that have strolled the championship countless times and joined a mid table/bottom half PL team. So he didn’t go from a 6th place championship side to playing every week at a top 4 club a season later.

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Seems like he gets a wake up call at his point of the season and plays to his full potential. Please keep it up.

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Not only today. It started from Atletico game where he had assist for Emerson goal from the bench. Motm after that against SU, scored for USA, scored last week against WBA and now brace with some great passes as well. Solid cameo against Porto. Just stay fit!

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If he can indeed stay fit (which is nigh on impossible) he will undoubtedly become a major factor for us again. When onn form probably our best player. Last season he carried us after the restart now we have quality alongside him. Was unlucky not to score vs Porto with that brilliant shot. In general very unlucky this season with his finishing but today he was spot on. I really like how he does not make fuzz and tries to place it like havertz but just puts his foot through it when he is in a good position. Also one of our few players who can hit a ball at full pace. My MOTM today because of how vital his goals were at the time they came and how he kept their right side pinned back all game.

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On 07/04/2021 at 23:43, NikkiCFC said:

I am happy with Mount under Tuchel because he is regular member of the squad like everyone else which was not the case under Lampard. If he deserves to play he will play if other players hit the form probably not.

If anything he's even more a first choice under Tuchel. Apart from Wolves the only games he hasn't started under the German is because he's been rested for rotational purposes or suspended, Lampard benched him a lot more often than is believed, especially in big games.

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

If anything he's even more a first choice under Tuchel. Apart from Wolves the only games he hasn't started under the German is because he's been rested for rotational purposes or suspended, Lampard benched him a lot more often than is believed, especially in big games.

Dont say that people will think hes Tuchel’s son next...

It is mind numbingly annoying how people are seeing his value now because hes been playing under TT. Its quite embarrassing really.

He may of had dips and games where hes not been at his best but it happens with young players. He is going to be a key figure here for the next 10+ years if he keeps going the way he is. 

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Our best player in 4 of the last 5 games. Other attackers are always hot and cold but it is nice that he is back. We need him to continue like this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Captain America does not shy away to take responsibility. Thought he was our best attacker and used his big chance brilliantly. If he stays fit he can become one of the best 

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