closed Chelsea 0-0 Southampton

[Stats 7,142]

20 minutes ago, Vybz Kartel said:

I hope we lose that game. With Sarri adamant on not rotating it's better we go out of the FA Cup and League cup so as to leave us with as few games as possible 

Why you want to lose? Either way, we will still play them in two games and the final, if we win will take place in February.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

14 minutes ago, manpe said:

Retaining possession is his primary job, yes. That's why he was brought in and yes, he has improved us in that regard. It does and has helped win us games, because the more possession we have, the more chance there is that we can use it to score. He has never been a scorer or an assister, so if you mean "winning games" solely by direct contribution to goals, then yes, but I'd argue that his indirect contribution to goals has helped us big time. Make no mistake, we'd be struggling much more if we didn't have him and had to go the season with Fabregas and Drinkwater playing his role. Whatever way you look at it, he IS a lot better than any other option we have.

As others have pointed out, once Jorginho's done his job in the bottom 2/3 of the pitch, it's up to the guys in the last 1/3 to make something of it... They don't, they are fulfilling their duties far worse than Jorginho. We are far too static up front.

Yes but it makes no point in playing Jorginho if rest of the team cant do shit in Sarriball.

Either bring new players/make some rotations or drop Jorginho/ play Kante next to him. 

[manpe 10,861]

Just now, BlueLyon said:

Yes but it makes no point in playing Jorginho if rest of the team cant do shit in Sarriball.

Either bring new players/make some rotations or drop Jorginho/ play Kante next to him. 

Is there point in playing anybody then if the team can't do shit? Flawed logic. Kante is playing next to him in defence, how it should be. How would him staying deep next to Jorginho in attack help us get goals and thus win games?

[Muzchap 8,966]

We need to back the manager and build a team around him 

We are victims of our short term success - we believe a manager can walk in and perform miracles.

The miracles bucket is empty.

We need to give him 3+ seasons and then reap the rewards. It's no coincidence, City, Spuds and Bin Dippers, who have all followed this process are above us in the league.

And for once I'm glad - it's about time loyalty paid off. So let's accept the inevitable, it's going to be an up/down year and hope the recent business is a good indication of what's to come and hope and pray we get the dead wood out and the badly needed new players/youth team promotions we need! 

[cosmicway 1,333]

We were appalling once again.
We could have won. Morata's goal ought to have stood, also the penalty.
But the opposition were useless. Their best chance was a shot going wide and Kepa touched it so it went for a corner.
Against such opposition Chelsea was a pain in the eye to watch.
Any neutral watching this match would have switched channels in a couple of minutes.
I don't understand this slow motion football we are playing. Why was Mourinho's system any different ?
The absence of a forward of Diego quality is no excuse.
I 've seen other teams with good players all round but a weakness in the number 9 position and they are not a pain to watch like Chelsea is thse days.

That Chelsea was an Arsenal from the darkest lagoons.

[Vesper 30,185]

5 minutes ago, Muzchap said:

We need to back the manager and build a team around him 

We are victims of our short term success - we believe a manager can walk in and perform miracles.

The miracles bucket is empty.

We need to give him 3+ seasons and then reap the rewards. It's no coincidence, City, Spuds and Bin Dippers, who have all followed this process are above us in the league.

And for once I'm glad - it's about time loyalty paid off. So let's accept the inevitable, it's going to be an up/down year and hope the recent business is a good indication of what's to come and hope and pray we get the dead wood out and the badly needed new players/youth team promotions we need! 

the board wont back him

Pulisic is not the answer, other than Yank kit revenue

talk to me when we buy Icardi and de Ligt and Sarabia (18m euros FFS)

THEN I will will know we are serious about winning CL

 

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Muzchap said:

We need to back the manager and build a team around him 

We are victims of our short term success - we believe a manager can walk in and perform miracles.

The miracles bucket is empty.

We need to give him 3+ seasons and then reap the rewards. It's no coincidence, City, Spuds and Bin Dippers, who have all followed this process are above us in the league.

And for once I'm glad - it's about time loyalty paid off. So let's accept the inevitable, it's going to be an up/down year and hope the recent business is a good indication of what's to come and hope and pray we get the dead wood out and the badly needed new players/youth team promotions we need! 

All for backing the manager. But backing a manager who isn't willing to change things that aren't working, is stubborn and rigid in the way he does things? That's highly questionable. People talk about City, Spurs, Liverpool...thing is while Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino have their way of playing, they are at least flexible. They know how to tweak things, how to make minor changes to try and fix the problem. Sarri? He hasn't shown those capabilities or doesn't seem to want to. His solution? "To hell with Plan B! Persist with Plan A!". As a famous saying goes, insanity is doing the same mistakes over and over again but expecting different results...it's not going to end well.

[Vesper 30,185]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

All for backing the manager. But backing a manager who isn't willing to change things that aren't working, is stubborn and rigid in the way he does things? That's highly questionable. People talk about City, Spurs, Liverpool...thing is while Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino have their way of playing, they are at least flexible. They know how to tweak things, how to make minor changes to try and fix the problem. Sarri? He hasn't shown those capabilities or doesn't seem to want to. His solution? "To hell with Plan B! Persist with Plan A!". As a famous saying goes, insanity is doing the same mistakes over and over again but expecting different results...it's not going to end well.

Yes, all of the top managers are flexible. Sarri is digging his own grave, 10000000%

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

All for backing the manager. But backing a manager who isn't willing to change things that aren't working, is stubborn and rigid in the way he does things? That's highly questionable. People talk about City, Spurs, Liverpool...thing is while Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino have their way of playing, they are at least flexible. They know how to tweak things, how to make minor changes to try and fix the problem. Sarri? He hasn't shown those capabilities or doesn't seem to want to. His solution? "To hell with Plan B! Persist with Plan A!". As a famous saying goes, insanity is doing the same mistakes over and over again but expecting different results...it's not going to end well.

Tbf Klopp and Pep were insistent with their styles/philosophies and didnt get results at first but got there eventually with major upgrades more than being 'flexible". I mean Pep spent about 350m on full backs, centre backs and goalkeepers while keeping the same philosophy because the previous ones werent for his philosophy. Klopp spent big money on van Dijk, Alisson, Salah, Keita, Mane etc too. If City and Liverpool can give them a season or 2 to break in then why cant we? At least the club and Sarri have recognised our attack is letting us down. It is about time they do something about it.

[DDA 9,941]

The problem we face is if we miss out on top 4... we lose Hazard and then we have more problems to solve.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

7 minutes ago, manpe said:

Is there point in playing anybody then if the team can't do shit? Flawed logic. Kante is playing next to him in defence, how it should be. How would him staying deep next to Jorginho in attack help us get goals and thus win games?

Change of tactics or formation etc. If we dont have the players, we have to adapt. Azpi, Kante, Alonso etc all look much worse compared to last season.

All due to this new Sarriball that isnt even working. 

I would gladly drop Alonso, but right now it wont happen. Conte had limited squad and he made changes that won us the title. 

Its absolutely pointless to accomodate whole team just so that one player (Jorginho) plays his role, even if he is doing well. 

Im not saying we should just instantly drop him or whatever, but longterm if this isnt working whats the point? 

At the end I dont care if we play possession football or more defensive. As long there is visible progress and it suits the players we have.

Right now sarriball looks extremely forced. Kante out of his place, Azpi and Alonso who are nowhere near good in attack for Sarriball. Hazard in false 9 role etc. 

If the board saw it right to spend 60m on Jorginho, they better be prepared to support Sarri with new LB and striker that fits this system. Otherwise it makes no sense. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

All for backing the manager. But backing a manager who isn't willing to change things that aren't working, is stubborn and rigid in the way he does things? That's highly questionable. People talk about City, Spurs, Liverpool...thing is while Guardiola, Klopp, Pochettino have their way of playing, they are at least flexible. They know how to tweak things, how to make minor changes to try and fix the problem. Sarri? He hasn't shown those capabilities or doesn't seem to want to. His solution? "To hell with Plan B! Persist with Plan A!". As a famous saying goes, insanity is doing the same mistakes over and over again but expecting different results...it's not going to end well.

How is he more inflexible than guardiola? Because he does not start Emerson ?  

how do you know guardiola would start him or even have him in the roster? Maybe sarri thinks very little of Emerson (not his player) and so would guardiola.

because he does not give minutes to CHO? Again how do you know guardiola would give minutes to a 18yo who does not impress him in practice and in the few minutes he plays?

sorry I don’t think the squads are remotely comparable.

[manpe 10,861]

4 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Change of tactics or formation etc. If we dont have the players, we have to adapt. Azpi, Kante, Alonso etc all look much worse compared to last season.

All due to this new Sarriball that isnt even working. 

I would gladly drop Alonso, but right now it wont happen. Conte had limited squad and he made changes that won us the title. 

Its absolutely pointless to accomodate whole team just so that one player (Jorginho) plays his role, even if he is doing well. 

Im not saying we should just instantly drop him or whatever, but longterm if this isnt working whats the point? 

At the end I dont care if we play possession football or more defensive. As long there is visible progress and it suits the players we have.

Right now sarriball looks extremely forced. Kante out of his place, Azpi and Alonso who are nowhere near good in attack for Sarriball. Hazard in false 9 role etc. 

If the board saw it right to spend 60m on Jorginho, they better be prepared to support Sarri with new LB and striker that fits this system. Otherwise it makes no sense. 

So apparently your real gripe isn't with Jorginho, it's with Sarri and the board.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

Tbf Klopp and Pep were insistent with their styles/philosophies and didnt get results at first but got there eventually with major upgrades more than being 'flexible". I mean Pep spent about 350m on full backs, centre backs and goalkeepers while keeping the same philosophy because the previous ones werent for his philosophy. Klopp spent big money on van Dijk, Alisson, Salah, Keita, Mane etc too. If City and Liverpool can give them a season or 2 to break in then why cant we? At least the club and Sarri have recognised our attack is letting us down. It is about time they do something about it.

Guardiola/Klopp may have insisted with his philosophy but at least he's not so stubborn to stick with the same formation or players and expect things to fall his way. With Sarri? It's do-or-die with his 4-3-3 and his group of favorite players. 

It's true that Guardiola/Klopp had the money to spend to perfect their squad but Sarri won't get that here. We aren't going to spend 300-400 million on players and make this squad his. So, if that's the case and he has players that aren't suited to his way of playing, shouldn't he then find ways to maximize the players' talent in a compatible system, rather than try forcing players that are incompatible to his? Conte once said that "every coach must be a very good tailor and adapt his beliefs to the human material he has available" but Sarri is doing the opposite and we're seeing horrendous performances and bad results.

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, DDA said:

The problem we face is if we miss out on top 4... we lose Hazard and then we have more problems to solve.

Said it earlier, that scenario means fuck all if Real don't come calling for Hazard. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Robchels said:

How is he more inflexible than guardiola? Because he does not start Emerson ?  

how do you know guardiola would start him or even have him in the roster? Maybe sarri thinks very little of Emerson (not his player) and so would guardiola.

because he does not give minutes to CHO? Again how do you know guardiola would give minutes to a 18yo who does not impress him in practice and in the few minutes he plays?

sorry I don’t think the squads are remotely comparable.

Who's talking only about the squads? 

[DDA 9,941]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Said it earlier, that scenario means fuck all if Real don't come calling for Hazard. 

They could get him on a cheaper deal if he forces the move though. Why wouldn't Real want to take a player of his quality on a cut price. Eden holds all the cards.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Just now, manpe said:

So apparently your real gripe isn't with Jorginho, it's with Sarri and the board.

Yup, I said before 

Im willing to stick with Sarri but so far its just not working. Jorginho would be victim of circumstances if he was dropped, but the real culprits would be board and Sarri. Either we should continue Conte football and bring 1,2 players or get Sarri that would require 6 new players. 

Now we play Sarriball, but without proper players. We need to get players that fit this style or drop Jorginho, Sarriball and do the best we can with current lot. With Sarri or without.

That said Sarriball would always take at least two seasons to make some noise. But the current state is beyond worrying. I expected we will have problems with results, but play wise I thought our attack will be way more fluid and our defense full of holes. Similar to Klopp in Pool. That way you can work things out eventually. With us however, there are so many problems that its hard to see benefits of Sarriball at all. Bottom line, even when Klopp had shit defense and kept losing, their team was showing promise when they pushed forward. Entertaining football. What do we have? Possession on possession with zero creativity and end product. Its like the worst possible football style. Even gold Mourinho or Conte ball was more interesting because oppont obliterated us, but we survived and won.

And the worst part is that we actualy played well in august and september. With the very same players. So its not just down to bringing new lb or striker. Why? IMO Jorginho isnt as influental, Hazard is not as good and Sarri doesnt rotate one bit. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, DDA said:

They could get him on a cheaper deal if he forces the move though. Why wouldn't Real want to take a player of his quality on a cut price. Eden holds all the cards.

True, the cut price would be a factor but he still might cost them a lot and if one of Neymar/Mbappe is available, pretty certain Real will go for one of the two rather than Hazard. Hazard will have nowhere to go if Real don't come for him.

[DDA 9,941]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

True, the cut price would be a factor but he still might cost them a lot and if one of Neymar/Mbappe is available, pretty certain Real will go for one of the two rather than Hazard. Hazard will have nowhere to go if Real don't come for him.

Wolves?