Jorginho

[manpe 10,855]

13 minutes ago, the wes said:

 

That's why I consider all people who slam him for lack of assists stupid as fuck who take anything what pundits say as gospel. This video shows very well that the players in front of him are mostly toothless who can't even receive the ball properly. Assisting depends on your teammates, not yourself like scoring.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

On 06/04/2019 at 11:58 AM, manpe said:

That's why I consider all people who slam him for lack of assists stupid as fuck who take anything what pundits say as gospel. This video shows very well that the players in front of him are mostly toothless who can't even receive the ball properly. Assisting depends on your teammates, not yourself like scoring.

Fabregas got the same treatment in the second half of the season the year we won the league under Jose. He "wasn't doing enough" although between Costa, Eden, Willian, the amount of chances they squandered was ridiculous. Fabregas is still one of the best players I have ever seen at finding that penetrating or final pass. Jorginho has found some great passes but poor finishing has took assists away from him. That video is proof, just as is the one of Eden providing passes that should have been scored but the difference is Eden does it and it is automatically an issue, Jorginho on the other hand is branded a bang average player and only passes sideways.... although even then his role in the team isn't to provide assists for players, its to control and dictate the tempo. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,386]

Probably his best game for us last night, and having the options of RLC and CHO certainly improve his game.

if he was in City’s team this season then we’d be saying what a shame it was we didn’t get him, because of the quality and type of player he would have had around and in front of him.

[NikkiCFC 7,565]

10 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Probably his best game for us last night, and having the options of RLC and CHO certainly improve his game.

if he was in City’s team this season then we’d be saying what a shame it was we didn’t get him, because of the quality and type of player he would have had around and in front of him.

When we master Sarriball (next season I think) Jorgi will look much, much better.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Fabregas was pass master but we got completely destroyed in midfield number of times because he was slow, immobile and gobshit under pressure. I remember even prime Matic couldnt do it by himself in that Psg game.

Hopefuly we never target such midfielders again. You need balanced midfielders that can offer something on both ends. 

Lamps, Ballack and Essien did their job in most cases. Players like Jorginho, Cesc they get bullied and destroyed every second game. You cant build a team to go far in europe with those.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

3 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Fabregas was pass master but we got completely destroyed in midfield number of times because he was slow, immobile and gobshit under pressure. I remember even prime Matic couldnt do it by himself in that Psg game.

Hopefuly we never target such midfielders again. You need balanced midfielders that can offer something on both ends. 

Lamps, Ballack and Essien did their job in most cases. Players like Jorginho, Cesc they get bullied and destroyed every second game. You cant build a team to go far in europe with those.

Spain, Barca, Real Madrid and Man City are all proof you can. While I agree some teams can still bully some teams but you definitely can go far in European competitions, which are also far less physical than English football as referees are stricter, with those sort of teams made up of more technical players. Even now Barca are still doing it with guys like Artur, Alba, Semedo, Roberto, Messi, Dembele, Coutinho, Alena etc. 

Regarding Matic there were times where he was very poor and left Cesc struggling too. That game he got subbed om and subbed off basically summed him up that season. Although Cesc wasnt hugely impressive that year either but one thing I would disagree about is that he could definitely keep the ball under pressure and would want to get the ball whenever he could take it unlike many others in our team in that period who just stood around waiting for shit to happen.

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

15 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Spain, Barca, Real Madrid and Man City are all proof you can. While I agree some teams can still bully some teams but you definitely can go far in European competitions, which are also far less physical than English football as referees are stricter, with those sort of teams made up of more technical players. Even now Barca are still doing it with guys like Artur, Alba, Semedo, Roberto, Messi, Dembele, Coutinho, Alena etc. 

Regarding Matic there were times where he was very poor and left Cesc struggling too. That game he got subbed om and subbed off basically summed him up that season. Although Cesc wasnt hugely impressive that year either but one thing I would disagree about is that he could definitely keep the ball under pressure and would want to get the ball whenever he could take it unlike many others in our team in that period who just stood around waiting for shit to happen.

 

I didnt mean any small, weaker player. Cesc had bad balance and Jorginho has weak frame, which makes them a target for pressing. 

We have little Hazard, but he is doing great in PL. 

And we are discussing DM, all teams you mentioned above had strong or quick DM in Busquets, Casemiro, Fernandinho etc. Its not so much problem with AMs where you can put Modric, Silva who can be smaller. But even then, these guys are well balanced with superb hold up unlike Fabregas or to a lesser extent Jorginho who sometimes plays quite ferocious, but sometimes he gets completely bullied and doesnt even fight back.

 

[Clockwork 1,762]

17 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

Probably his best game for us last night, and having the options of RLC and CHO certainly improve his game.

if he was in City’s team this season then we’d be saying what a shame it was we didn’t get him, because of the quality and type of player he would have had around and in front of him.

It will be interesting to see if teams will play the diamond formation and man mark Jorginho with RLC and CHO on the team. Because those two create a lot of dilemma if they set up like that. CHO ability to create width really makes it troublesome for teams trying to play narrow. Kovacic and Barkley had incredible amount of space when teams tried to man mark Jorginho, they couldn't capitalize on the oppertunity. RLC is incredibly dangerous when giving space to run into. 

Not as cut and dry anymore for the opposition. Stop Jorginho, stop Chelsea. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

19 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

if he was in City’s team this season then we’d be saying what a shame it was we didn’t get him, because of the quality and type of player he would have had around and in front of him.

Jorginho is a player who needs protection if he is playing for your side specially in the PL. Even if he was in City he would have been exposed if not given protection ... he on his own is not able to stand ground, when pressed aggressively he runs out of idea. Now whether it is just a Chelsea/Sarri thing or not is difficult to stay just like it is difficult to say that he would have done well at City. For me after seeing him for most of season, he is still the weak link whether at Chelsea or City. 

[robsblubot 3,205]

5 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

Jorginho is a player who needs protection if he is playing for your side specially in the PL. Even if he was in City he would have been exposed if not given protection ... he on his own is not able to stand ground, when pressed aggressively he runs out of idea. Now whether it is just a Chelsea/Sarri thing or not is difficult to stay just like it is difficult to say that he would have done well at City. For me after seeing him for most of season, he is still the weak link whether at Chelsea or City. 

Disagree. I mean he’d need protection in any other system than the one we try to implement.

passing is as much about movement of your teammates as it is about the passing ability of a given player, and make no mistake Jorginho is a great passer.

he’s far more easily pressed at Chelsea than he’d be at city. At city he’d have a lot more options for passing and they don’t chase players as much as we do.

while we try to rely on possession for defending, city actually does that. When they don’t have the football every player (even aguero) swarms the opposition to regain it. They still struggle without it and are vulnerable to a direct style... classic paper scissors.

[coolhead23 1,146]

2 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Disagree. I mean he’d need protection in any other system than the one we try to implement.

passing is as much about movement of your teammates as it is about the passing ability of a given player, and make no mistake Jorginho is a great passer.

he’s far more easily pressed at Chelsea than he’d be at city. At city he’d have a lot more options for passing and they don’t chase players as much as we do.

while we try to rely on possession for defending, city actually does that. When they don’t have the football every player (even aguero) swarms the opposition to regain it. They still struggle without it and are vulnerable to a direct style... classic paper scissors.

Thats why I said he needs protection in any team in the PL. 

But at the same time the team dynamics can be exploited if you identified the weak link ... yes he can really pass the ball but when if you crowd out your main passer and keep pressing him you're putting a lot of pressure on the supply line. If your passer is strong and can hold ground, the threat is reduced considerable but if someone like a Jorginho is pressed he just runs out of idea. Thats why I mention for me he is a weak link whether our team or anyone else specially in the PL. 

[Clockwork 1,762]

14 hours ago, Robchels said:

Disagree. I mean he’d need protection in any other system than the one we try to implement.

passing is as much about movement of your teammates as it is about the passing ability of a given player, and make no mistake Jorginho is a great passer.

he’s far more easily pressed at Chelsea than he’d be at city. At city he’d have a lot more options for passing and they don’t chase players as much as we do.

while we try to rely on possession for defending, city actually does that. When they don’t have the football every player (even aguero) swarms the opposition to regain it. They still struggle without it and are vulnerable to a direct style... classic paper scissors.

Also another big factor imo, is City is actually really good in attack while we are setup for attacking style but we are failing in that department. In this type of style your best defense is your offense, teams are scared to attack City and for good reasons they are the best goal scoring side in the league and arguably the best in all of Europe. On the other hand we are the worst side in goals forced in the top 6. Teams are much more willing and aggressive in facing us, the majority of teams do not respect our attack. It is a terrible combo to play open while struggling to score goals. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,194]

It's just overall intelligence off the ball that separates us from City. That and the obvious lack in quality. 

[Thor 2,117]

Everyone raved and ranted about him before we got him, but now suddenly he isn't good enough? 

 

I'm never generally a fan of these types of players, but what has changed for those of you that were such massive fans? 

I genuinely think Kovacic who has been quite poor this season would fit that role quite well. He is so much more dynamic, and for what he lacks in finishing, he is a very good passer from the back, and can drive the ball up, which Jorgi can't. I've never understood buying this specialist type players. Players need to be dynamic and malleable, and generally good athletes to create a team that can move well going forward. Jorgi is small, lightweight, and isn't particularly quick.  

[Magic Lamps 11,446]

34 minutes ago, Thor said:

Everyone raved and ranted about him before we got him, but now suddenly he isn't good enough? 

 

I'm never generally a fan of these types of players, but what has changed for those of you that were such massive fans? 

I genuinely think Kovacic who has been quite poor this season would fit that role quite well. He is so much more dynamic, and for what he lacks in finishing, he is a very good passer from the back, and can drive the ball up, which Jorgi can't. I've never understood buying this specialist type players. Players need to be dynamic and malleable, and generally good athletes to create a team that can move well going forward. Jorgi is small, lightweight, and isn't particularly quick.  

I honstley did bot know him before we bought him.  I liked how he made us click in the first few games but one he got figured he did not jave a solution. The problem with specialist players as you say is thag they are so Limited. Sacrificing a whole starting spot just for someone to control the tempo is a bad deal imo..Kroos at least can shoot and has more accurate long range passing than Joriginho. Ballack could also control the tempo from deep and was a thread from range and a force in the air. Lamparf obviously was a complete playmaker and scored 300 goals on top, Nusquets can defend and read the game like no other. Jorginho can just play short passes at a deliberate pace and mediocre mid range passes and interception ability thats it. Not that he is a bad player. He has put in a lot of hard work in the last few weeks and i can not blame his attitude he seems like a decent bloke but for 65m we could have gotten a true worldclass midfielder, an Allrounder who has passes, tackles, runs and goals in him.

[DDA 9,570]

On 4/10/2019 at 2:14 AM, Clockwork said:

It will be interesting to see if teams will play the diamond formation and man mark Jorginho with RLC and CHO on the team. Because those two create a lot of dilemma if they set up like that. CHO ability to create width really makes it troublesome for teams trying to play narrow. Kovacic and Barkley had incredible amount of space when teams tried to man mark Jorginho, they couldn't capitalize on the oppertunity. RLC is incredibly dangerous when giving space to run into. 

Not as cut and dry anymore for the opposition. Stop Jorginho, stop Chelsea. 

I have been saying this for a loong time. Create width when teams set up narrowly to prevent Jorginho playing through the lines. It was as obvious as milk is white. With Pedro and Willian the width isn't constant as both drift inside. Odoi hugs the line and stays a constant danger like Sane does for City.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Get this man out of the club now. 

Strength of a kid. Completely useless in creating any sort of chances. Luiz long passing is miles better. Cant defend because everytime he tries to shield the ball, he just gets bullied. 

Anyone saw the two situations today? For the second goal, he just fucking stood there and watch how Barnes got to the ball and shot. Run you mong.

Then in the second half he proceeds to present his amazing and smart, reliable passing again when he passes backwards straight to Wood who went 1v1 with Kepa but fortunely got brainfart in that moment.

Third one has to be that atempt of a long pass to Higuain. Completely overpowered and inacurrate. Does that almost every match.

How can anyone defend this dude when he is such a frickin liability?

He wont flourish with better players because the league is simply too much for him. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Another game where he does absolutely fuck all, but we are all too stupid to realise how vital he is for this team, right?

Him and Kovacic are the worst midfield combo I have seen in a long time. Slow, cant create shit, concede tons of goals and any time someone presses us, they get bullied andt are unable to dictate our play at all.