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1 minute ago, Jason said:

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable? :lol: I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst. Decent in defence but horrendous in offence and the only difference is, we have more possession but even that is useless if we don't make it count. Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

Our league position may look good but let's not pretend the football has been good to watch. We haven't played well for 90 minutes for most part of the season, if there is any at all, we have been scraping victories of late as well, winning games only because of moments of individual brilliance rather than any cohesive team play. Plus, you never quite know with this team. Take a lead or concede a goal and we suddenly lose our way in matches. A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. 

We seem to be regressing.

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Sarri being the manager represents a club with no direction. Since 2012 the club is doing bad decisions in terms of football management. 

First big mistake: hiring Mourinho back in 2013. At that point the club was investing heavily in young players. Instead of paying big money for big names like Ballack, Crespo and Shevchenko, the club was getting Lukaku, Kevin de Bruyne, Hazard, Oscar. It was also a team in search of new leaders. Drogba was long gone, Lampard, Terry and Cech were aging. Mourinho just happened to be the worst manager for that kind of transfer policy and for what the team needed. 

After Mourinho the club got Conte. Dont get me wrong, Conte did a great job for one single season, but why he was the chosen one? Why the club decided he was the right man? It emerged days before Conte was annouced as the new manager, that Sampaoli didn’t get the job because his english was pretty poor. We are talking about 2 different animals...why thought both guys would make a good manager? Conte had nothing in his CV at that point o make him an exciting announcement.

Then the whole Conte vs Costa soap opera. That exposed a club without leadership. Why Conte was allowed to say that the main player in the whole squad was no longer needed and  still kept his job? If the club was serious, Conte would get sacked without questions. Instead, the club had to pay 70m for an average striker, because Antonio Conte said so, and still had to hear the manager moaning during the whole season.

Then they bring Sarri...why they thought Sarri would make a great coach? Why the club got a manager that demanded Jorginho, and a manager that was willing to sacrifice Kante, easily one of our most important players in past 2 seasons, and the hidden secret behind Leicester miracle, and a guy that just signed a big contract extention? 

Now it seems the club is willing to get a shitty old striker, because this striker worked with Sarri years ago.

Not to mention in past 2 seasons we only had one successful signing: Rudiger. 

In the past 2 seasons the clubs is spending money in Bakayoko, Palmieri, Zapaccosta, Giroud and Jorginho.

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7 hours ago, DDA said:

But that Barca team was the greatest team ever in my opinion. I do agree though, the game is over complicated at times. 

I just hope Uncle Sarri get's us playing SarriBall so we can all rejoice in playing pretty football at last.

Our fans need to be more patient. They are never happy. 

Moan if we play like wankers but win. Moan when we lose and play like shit.

Moan moan moan.

Yes, that 2010–11 FC Barcelona team, that won 5 out of the six major trophies lineally (only losing 1 nil in Copa del Rey final to RM stopped them from being first Sextuple ever) was single greatest 1 season plus team ever, but I still rate the late 80's to early/mid 1990's AC Milan sides of Arrigo Sacchi and Fabio Capello as the best era ever. I know there is a lot of competition for that, including all of Peps Barca teams, the Bayern teams of the mid 70's, Ajax early 70's, the 5 in a row Real Madrid di Stefano sides, etc. But I think in a massive round robin tourney, those Milan sides would come out on top. Mainly because of the back 4 (Franco Baresi, Mauro Tassotti, Alessandro Costacurta and Paolo Maldini). and their MF (especially Roberto Donadoni, Ruud Gullit, Marcel Desailly, and Frank Rijkaard) plus peak Marco van Basten. They would tear up tiki-taka IMHO.

2023569_w1.jpg

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable? :lol: I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst. Decent in defence but horrendous in offence and the only difference is, we have more possession but even that is useless if we don't make it count. Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

Our league position may look good but let's not pretend the football has been good to watch. We haven't played well for 90 minutes for most part of the season, if there is any at all, we have been scraping victories of late as well, winning games only because of moments of individual brilliance rather than any cohesive team play. Plus, you never quite know with this team. Take a lead or concede a goal and we suddenly lose our way in matches. A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. 

If you watch our team right now what is the problem. Is it more of Sarri or our player. Our offense like you said is dull, boring but our defense is pretty good. If you told me that we will play back 4 with error prone David Luiz and slow mo Marcos Alonso as our starting 11, and our defense is good. I will think you are mad. But our defense is decent. Like you said is thank to our better ball retention. 

Offensively I think what you want is more directness, I kinda agree. We play too many short passes and they are slow passes. Jorginho performance play a factor plus we really need a striker. If we got a decent striker, I think everything will look much better. Just remember we scored some fun goals under mou after we signed Cesc and Costa. 

Btw can we stop with this kante as dm.  Does people realize how our dm is utilized in this system, his job is to play as regista. Having our best runner that have countless of stamina, spending 90% of the game sitting behind making short passes is a waste of kante talent. 

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7 hours ago, DDA said:

But that Barca team was the greatest team ever in my opinion. I do agree though, the game is over complicated at times. 

I just hope Uncle Sarri get's us playing SarriBall so we can all rejoice in playing pretty football at last.

Our fans need to be more patient. They are never happy. 

Moan if we play like wankers but win. Moan when we lose and play like shit.

Moan moan moan.

I thinks most fans (including ours) want their team to play like Liverpool. Direct and fast

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4 hours ago, Jason said:

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable? :lol: I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst. Decent in defence but horrendous in offence and the only difference is, we have more possession but even that is useless if we don't make it count. Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

Our league position may look good but let's not pretend the football has been good to watch. We haven't played well for 90 minutes for most part of the season, if there is any at all, we have been scraping victories of late as well, winning games only because of moments of individual brilliance rather than any cohesive team play. Plus, you never quite know with this team. Take a lead or concede a goal and we suddenly lose our way in matches. A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. 

I already said why it's silly. We brought Sarri in to play attacking possession football. He's trying to implement that and now you want him to divert from that to be more pragmatic. 

Even if it's little tweaks every step away from attacking possession football will slow down the process of getting there. Also what "little " tweaks are you talking about because the most popular "little" tweak among our fan base is putting Kante on the 6 instead of Jorginho.

That's not a little tweak, that's not a little step. That is an enormous step away from possession football and towards more pragmatic football. 

"Why force your style " Euhm because we brought him in precisely because of his style...

"basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst."  Ridiculous statement. Mourinho barely attempted to play out from the back and Conte tried but once teams figured us out and pressed us he was completely clueless on how to solve it. 

Comparing that to the way we press, keep possession and play out from the back (even under immense pressure) under Sarri. A lot of work goes into that. The final third is where things  go wrong and that is largely down to the lack of a proper striker and the lack of a quality RW (and fullbacks that aren't good going forward)

"Is he ever gonna get all his players" Not in 1 transferwindow. It is going to take time. Piece by piece, brick by brick. The players that don't adapt need to be replaced. This was always going to be a long term process. 

 

"A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. " Nothing ? 6 points is a nice cushion and we're only 1 point behind Tottenham. 

And again all without a proper striker. 

 

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This "attacking possession football" is so overrated these days.

You need a once in a lifetime player like Messi to play the Guardiola way AND sustain consistent title and champions league challenges. 

No other team was ever able to play that way and challenge as much, the closes thing to it currently is Liverpool, who have a huge amount of off the ball workers ( if you wonder why the likes of Wijnaldum and obviously Milner play week in week out ). 

Their press has nothing to do with ours, the quality of the players they have upfront either. 

In his first year, Klopp took over in October and still finished 8th. The following year he finished 4th, 1 point above the Wenger Arsenal that many deemed terrible without, without playing a single European game. Last year they finished 4th, once again barely above us whereas we were having one of our worst seasons in the Roman era. 

It took them 3 years to fully reach the potential they were craving, and Klopp had to test and fail before getting it right, I don't think Sarri will have enough time nor board support to do that, I don't think what he is aiming to reach is worth it. 

 

This club has always been about winning, even with limited squads we still had the "win at all costs and play nice if possible" mindset like in the 2017 title, we are moving away from that and it's sad to se for me at least.

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I think the telling point will be where we are this time next year.  I'd like to think we'll be in a better place for all concerned but I have doubts.  Those doubts mainly hinge on our board more then the manager.

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24 minutes ago, Adnane said:

This "attacking possession football" is so overrated these days.

You need a once in a lifetime player like Messi to play the Guardiola way AND sustain consistent title and champions league challenges. 

No other team was ever able to play that way and challenge as much, the closes thing to it currently is Liverpool, who have a huge amount of off the ball workers ( if you wonder why the likes of Wijnaldum and obviously Milner play week in week out ). 

Their press has nothing to do with ours, the quality of the players they have upfront either. 

In his first year, Klopp took over in October and still finished 8th. The following year he finished 4th, 1 point above the Wenger Arsenal that many deemed terrible without, without playing a single European game. Last year they finished 4th, once again barely above us whereas we were having one of our worst seasons in the Roman era. 

It took them 3 years to fully reach the potential they were craving, and Klopp had to test and fail before getting it right, I don't think Sarri will have enough time nor board support to do that, I don't think what he is aiming to reach is worth it. 

 

This club has always been about winning, even with limited squads we still had the "win at all costs and play nice if possible" mindset like in the 2017 title, we are moving away from that and it's sad to se for me at least.

And look where that got us. Sacrificing long term for short term isn't a smart bet. We won 2 titles but everytime it felt like we went 1 step forward to then take 3 steps back.  Nearly every single top team knows how to play out from the back and how to press. Conte and Mourinho were both incapable of implementing this. 

Funny how you're forgetting that Liverpool reached the CL final with overrated attacking possession football. 

Also attacking possession football is a pretty wide scope. Plenty of different ways to play attacking possession football. It's not as one dimensional as you're making it sound.

Each their opinion but i like the progression we've made this season and i really don't miss the shit on a stick football we saw under Conte and Mourinho. 

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43 minutes ago, Adnane said:

This "attacking possession football" is so overrated these days.

You need a once in a lifetime player like Messi to play the Guardiola way AND sustain consistent title and champions league challenges. 

No other team was ever able to play that way and challenge as much, the closes thing to it currently is Liverpool, who have a huge amount of off the ball workers ( if you wonder why the likes of Wijnaldum and obviously Milner play week in week out ). 

Their press has nothing to do with ours, the quality of the players they have upfront either. 

In his first year, Klopp took over in October and still finished 8th. The following year he finished 4th, 1 point above the Wenger Arsenal that many deemed terrible without, without playing a single European game. Last year they finished 4th, once again barely above us whereas we were having one of our worst seasons in the Roman era. 

It took them 3 years to fully reach the potential they were craving, and Klopp had to test and fail before getting it right, I don't think Sarri will have enough time nor board support to do that, I don't think what he is aiming to reach is worth it. 

 

This club has always been about winning, even with limited squads we still had the "win at all costs and play nice if possible" mindset like in the 2017 title, we are moving away from that and it's sad to se for me at least.

to complete your discussion, liverpool became a very good team when they bought van djik and now allison so it is not only an attacking football' issue

question is to have wonderful players in every role. and chelsea lacks of a wonderful striker 

 

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4 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

And look where that got us. Sacrificing long term for short term isn't a smart bet. We won 2 titles but everytime it felt like we went 1 step forward to then take 3 steps back.  Nearly every single top team knows how to play out from the back and how to press. Conte and Mourinho were both incapable of implementing this. 

Funny how you're forgetting that Liverpool reached the CL final with overrated attacking possession football. 

Also attacking possession football is a pretty wide scope. Plenty of different ways to play attacking possession football. It's not as one dimensional as you're making it sound.

Each their opinion but i like the progression we've made this season and i really don't miss the shit on a stick football we saw under Conte and Mourinho. 

I think you made your point  very clear. And you maybe right. Maybe it is indeed the right thing to back one manager one philosophy no matter what. But i am dead cert the club will not have enough patience with Sarri and he will be gone before the end of the 2020 season and we will revert to another stop gap manager to win the odd title. And I dont mind actually. I dont give a shit about attacking or posession football. I enjoyed the power play of thr 2004 to 2010 squad and Conte counter attacking nuch more than i wouöd ever enjoy Sarriball or tiki taka. The only thing i would sacrifice short zerm titles for is blooding in youngsters from the academy..i hope we will at some point have a manager who is good at that

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I think you made your point  very clear. And you maybe right. Maybe it is indeed the right thing to back one manager one philosophy no matter what. But i am dead cert the club will not have enough patience with Sarri and he will be gone before the end of the 2020 season and we will revert to another stop gap manager to win the odd title. And I dont mind actually. I dont give a shit about attacking or posession football. I enjoyed the power play of thr 2004 to 2010 squad and Conte counter attacking nuch more than i wouöd ever enjoy Sarriball or tiki taka. The only thing i would sacrifice short zerm titles for is blooding in youngsters from the academy..i hope we will at some point have a manager who is good at that
I think we might be disappointed now because we were so luck and spoiled back then, the only comparable feeling i see in the future is to see one of the old guard appointed, the fans would genuinely reconnect with the team and players.

Not saying it's the right thing to do, but the thrill would be high.

Sent from my INE-LX1 using Tapatalk

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9 hours ago, Jason said:

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable? :lol: I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst.  

Not even close, the football now is not great but not even close to how bad it was under Conte and especially Jose at rock bottom. When it was bad under Conte we were playing like a little team even against little teams and under Jose in 15-16 we couldn't even pass the ball properly.

9 hours ago, Jason said:

 Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

This could all change in the blink of the eye but so far so good. Kepa, Jorginho, Kova and Pulisic all fit his style.

Plus if we are going down the route of adapting to who is here right now we might as well sack Sarri and bring in a pragmatic manager again, bringing in a manager like Sarri is commiting to a change of direction. Plus, the big pro argument towards reverting back to type in the past was we still had a chance of one or both of the major trophies, this time we ain't even in the CL and have no chance in the PL.

Furthermore he has in a way adapted as much as he can without compromising his system (which he shouldn't do, if he starts telling the players to sit back and play on the counter even for a game they will subconsciously hit the comfort zone and not fully commit to the restart, it may sound sensible on paper but in practice it's the opposite), we seem a lot more cautious on the ball than at the beginning of the season which may point to Sarri realising a fair chunk of the players can't go all in on his football without the team looking vulnerable.

Can i with 100% assurance say Sarri will be a success? No and if we are still performing like this in October i will be the most vocal wanting a change but all things considered right now he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

1 hour ago, Adnane said:

This club has always been about winning, even with limited squads we still had the "win at all costs and play nice if possible" mindset like in the 2017 title, we are moving away from that and it's sad to se for me at least.

Yeah,throughout all of this decade pre Sarri it has basically been the sticky plaster route and fair play it's been successful in terms of trophies but we have also been helped by the fact that there was no standout team which allowed us to pounce by putting all our eggs in the "now" basket. Now we have two outstanding teams that look set to get 90 plus points in a season for the foreseeable future so to catch up and keep up we need to try and build something sustainable.

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8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Yeah,throughout all of this decade pre Sarri it has basically been the sticky plaster route and fair play it's been successful in terms of trophies but we have also been helped by the fact that there was no standout team which allowed us to pounce by putting all our eggs in the "now" basket. Now we have two outstanding teams that look set to get 90 plus points in a season for the foreseeable future so to catch up and keep up we need to try and build something sustainable.

Right, but we don't have to play like them to compete. 

In fact, I am not sure we will ever fund well enough to reach that. 

I would much rather prefer a pragmatic coach ( not defensive, there is a huge difference, Ferguson was pragmatic, Mourinho early days as well, Mourinho last years is indeed defensive ).

And talking about short-long term, you can still build a sustainable strong flexible team to compete on the long run, Simeone's Atletico and Juve are the perfect examples in fact. The latter specifically do not shy away from adjusting to opposition when they need to, they are not stubborn enough to think that they can beat everyone the same way and they are now reaping rewards of that. 

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