Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[mccg 1,528]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

Watching Spurs v Man United and looking at how OGS has turned United around, can't help but think that sometimes, football is all about simplicity and nothing about the fancy tactics or over-complicated fancy football. 

“Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is.”

[!Hazard! 3,394]

If we played simple football people would complain that we lack identity

[Vesper 28,968]

1 minute ago, !Hazard! said:

If we played simple football people would complain that we lack identity

1993 to 2013 Fergie Manure teams were playing simple football, simply brutal, simply devastating a shit tonne of the time.

Our 2004-2006 Mo teams played simple football too, with same results, from a different style.

[DDA 9,689]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Watching Spurs v Man United and looking at how OGS has turned United around, can't help but think that sometimes, football is all about simplicity and nothing about the fancy tactics or over-complicated fancy football. 

Did you watch the whole game J? The second half they hung on by the skin of their teeth. If Spurs had their shooting boots on, they would have won that game comfortably. 

Barca under Guardiola was arguably the greatest team of all time and that was because they played in a system that was overwhelming even to Fergies United.

OGS's United will be tested soon and trust me, they will be found wanting. 

They are riding the high of Joses departure which can propell any team to glory. Lol.

[DDA 9,689]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

1993 to 2013 Fergie Manure teams were playing simple football, simply brutal, simply devastating a shit tonne of the time.

Our 2004-2006 Mo teams played simple football too, with same results, from a different style.

This was before the evolution of football. Before Tika taka and before the influx of foreign managers in the English game. Just look how Joses simple football holds up now. It's embarrassing.

[Vesper 28,968]

5 minutes ago, DDA said:

This was before the evolution of football. Before Tika taka and before the influx of foreign managers in the English game. Just look how Joses simple football holds up now. It's embarrassing.

Klopp plays direct simple (well simpler than most) football, seems to be working out oki for him. Juventus too. Bayern under Jupp Heynckes, Manure under OGS, also seem to follow that model. Mo won the CL at Inter playing it, well after tiki taka came onto the scene.

Tiki-taka was just a revival and update of the 1920's to 1942 Schalker Kreisel  ie. Schalke spinning top

https://halbfeldflanke.de/2015/12/der-schalker-kreisel/

http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.com/2014/06/schalker-kreisel.html

[DDA 9,689]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Klopp plays direct simple (well simpler than most) football, seems to be working out oki for him. Juventus too. Bayern under Jupp Heynckes, Manure under OGS, also seem to follow that model. Mo won the CL at Inter playing it, well after tiki taka came onto the scene.

Tiki-taka was just a revival and update of the 1920's to 1942 Schalker Kreisel  ie. Schalke spinning top

https://halbfeldflanke.de/2015/12/der-schalker-kreisel/

http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.com/2014/06/schalker-kreisel.html

But that Barca team was the greatest team ever in my opinion. I do agree though, the game is over complicated at times. 

I just hope Uncle Sarri get's us playing SarriBall so we can all rejoice in playing pretty football at last.

Our fans need to be more patient. They are never happy. 

Moan if we play like wankers but win. Moan when we lose and play like shit.

Moan moan moan.

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

Football isn't simple. Plenty of complexity in it that the average football fan will never know about. 

When patterns of play and movements are synced it looks smooth and simple but in reality it takes a lot of time and effort to get it right. 

 

United are a better team then what we saw from them under Mourinho.

They are just experiencing a resurgence due to Mourinho no longer being there to create a negative atmposhere. Same thing happened with us after he got sacked.

 

[Vesper 28,968]

On 12/01/2019 at 10:04 PM, Yeboii said:

You mean our best player with 10 goals and 10 assists in half a season?

that is hardly earth-shattering production

its really good yes, but the fact it is by far the best on the team in both categories is frightening

Messi has 23 goals and 13 assists in 22 games

CR7 has 15 and 8

Neymar has 18 and 9

Kane has 20 and 6

Luis Suárez has 16 and 7

Mauro Icardi has 16 and 4

Ousmane Dembélé has 10 and 5 in the equivalent of a third of a full Barca 50 or so game season season

Robert Lewandowski has 22 and 5

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has 16 and 4

Salah has 17 and 8

Mbappe has 17 and 10

Griezmann has 14 and 7

Raheem Sterling has 11 and 11

Sane has 10 and 11

Nicolas Pepe has 13 and 8

Hirving Lozano has 15 and 9

Pogba, ffs has 9 and 8 (and that is even scarier considering he had shit under Mo)

Jadon Sancho has 7 and 10, as an 18yo, in the equivalent of 15 full games

Luka Jovic has 17 and 4

Sébastien Haller hs 12 and 11

 

so, nope 10 and 10 is not anything that makes me stand in awe, especially as Sarriball is supposed to be this goal-scoring machine

20 and 20 (if he gets there) would be a career year, I hope he does

 

just for reference

another winger's career year

was

73 goals and 29 assists (that's in one Barca-only season 2011-12)

for the calendar year of 2012 

he had 91 goals and 41 assists in all comps

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

56 minutes ago, Vesper said:

that is hardly earth-shattering production

its really good yes, but the fact it is by far the best on the team in both categories is frightening

Messi has 23 goals and 13 assists in 22 games

CR7 has 15 and 8

Neymar has 18 and 9

Kane has 20 and 6

Luis Suárez has 16 and 7

Mauro Icardi has 16 and 4

Ousmane Dembélé has 10 and 5 in the equivalent of a third of a full Barca 50 or so game season season

Robert Lewandowski has 22 and 5

Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has 16 and 4

Salah has 17 and 8

Mbappe has 17 and 10

Griezmann has 14 and 7

Raheem Sterling has 11 and 11

Sane has 10 and 11

Nicolas Pepe has 13 and 8

Hirving Lozano has 15 and 9

Pogba, ffs has 9 and 8 (and that is even scarier considering he had shit under Mo)

Jadon Sancho has 7 and 10, as an 18yo, in the equivalent of 15 full games

Luka Jovic has 17 and 4

Sébastien Haller hs 12 and 11

 

so, nope 10 and 10 is not anything that makes me stand in awe, especially as Sarriball is supposed to be this goal-scoring machine

20 and 20 (if he gets there) would be a career year, I hope he does

 

just for reference

another winger's career year

was

73 goals and 29 assists (that's in one Barca-only season 2011-12)

for the calendar year of 2012 

he had 91 goals and 41 assists in all comps

that is hardly fair. Messi is probably the best player of all times, surely the best of the 21st century by a landslide, which I have to admit even though I dont like him. 

And Sarriball is obviously not a goalmachine and never was. His highest overall tally was 94 the year before last year and that even in Serie A is an ok but not outstanding number. City scored 106 last season. Last season Naples only scored a meagre 77 goals. What Napoli produced last season looked easy on the eye and good for highlight reels but obviously there were patches that were just as frustrating to look at as we are this season. And I don't think all the posession is a way of defence like the Del-Bosque Style. I think Sarri is just unable to find ways to break teams down or the team is unable to execute them. 

But back to Hazard. He obviously stands out bc we have a very average squad compared to what we had in the previous era and is the focal point of everything at Chelsea. Also currently in the EPL there is not that standout player but a few world class ones like Salah, de Bruyne, Silva, Agüero and Hazard. I dont even think those are much worse than the likes of mbappe,  c.ronaldo or Neymar but they dont stand out as stars as much mainly because of marketability, competitiveness of the leagues, and more critical reception of public and press. Hazard, whilst world class for 6 years now has at no stage of his career bee a top5 player  and never will be. His talent is second to only Messi i would venture but in terms of ambition, greed, hunger he lacks behind all those names mentiioned. I don't mind, he is who he is and he still might very well be the technically most gifted player in the history of this club. still if he is to become an absolute legend here he will do so by longevity, by seeing his peak out here and staying over a few more years. We will never forget how he carried this team to 2 epl titles albeit against mediocre competition, but I would always take peak Lampard and peak Drogba over peak Hazard. If Hazard leaves in summer it will hurt-short time but if we manage to overhaul the squad and find a decent manager he will not be missed for long. 

One final note is that we sadly will never find out how good Hazard would have been in a genuine quality side. I am not really sure if he has benefitted or been a victim of the huge abyss in quality between him and his fellow attackers but when you look at city they have 6,7 top class attackers so you see peeps like Sterling scoring as much as Hazard.

To sum up, Hazard standing out so much si not only due to his remarkable (albeit not generational) quality but also to the lack thereof in the rest of the squad wrt going forward. 

[Vesper 28,968]

7 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

that is hardly fair. Messi is probably the best player of all times, surely the best of the 21st century by a landslide, which I have to admit even though I dont like him. 

And Sarriball is obviously not a goalmachine and never was. His highest overall tally was 94 the year before last year and that even in Serie A is an ok but not outstanding number. City scored 106 last season. Last season Naples only scored a meagre 77 goals. What Napoli produced last season looked easy on the eye and good for highlight reels but obviously there were patches that were just as frustrating to look at as we are this season. And I don't think all the posession is a way of defence like the Del-Bosque Style. I think Sarri is just unable to find ways to break teams down or the team is unable to execute them. 

But back to Hazard. He obviously stands out bc we have a very average squad compared to what we had in the previous era and is the focal point of everything at Chelsea. Also currently in the EPL there is not that standout player but a few world class ones like Salah, de Bruyne, Silva, Agüero and Hazard. I dont even think those are much worse than the likes of mbappe,  c.ronaldo or Neymar but they dont stand out as stars as much mainly because of marketability, competitiveness of the leagues, and more critical reception of public and press. Hazard, whilst world class for 6 years now has at no stage of his career bee a top5 player  and never will be. His talent is second to only Messi i would venture but in terms of ambition, greed, hunger he lacks behind all those names mentiioned. I don't mind, he is who he is and he still might very well be the technically most gifted player in the history of this club. still if he is to become an absolute legend here he will do so by longevity, by seeing his peak out here and staying over a few more years. We will never forget how he carried this team to 2 epl titles albeit against mediocre competition, but I would always take peak Lampard and peak Drogba over peak Hazard. If Hazard leaves in summer it will hurt-short time but if we manage to overhaul the squad and find a decent manager he will not be missed for long. 

One final note is that we sadly will never find out how good Hazard would have been in a genuine quality side. I am not really sure if he has benefitted or been a victim of the huge abyss in quality between him and his fellow attackers but when you look at city they have 6,7 top class attackers so you see peeps like Sterling scoring as much as Hazard.

To sum up, Hazard standing out so much si not only due to his remarkable (albeit not generational) quality but also to the lack thereof in the rest of the squad wrt going forward. 

I agree with most, but my main focus was not on Messi, that was an add-on (fair or not) at the end to show the true gulf. I posted those 20 players to show that Hazard stats were not the crazy good, almost singular production (as in top several in world like some make it out to be) level it is being portrayed as.

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

6 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I agree with most, but my main focus was not on Messi, that was an add-on (fair or not) at the end to show the true gulf. I posted those 20 players to show that Hazard stats were not the crazy good, almost singular production (as in top several in world like some make it out to be) level it is being portrayed as.

fair enough. but i think you looked up all comps stats for those didn't you? in this case it would only fair to include hazards 2 efl cup goals too so he has 12 and 10

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

Did you watch the whole game J? The second half they hung on by the skin of their teeth. If Spurs had their shooting boots on, they would have won that game comfortably. 

Barca under Guardiola was arguably the greatest team of all time and that was because they played in a system that was overwhelming even to Fergies United.

OGS's United will be tested soon and trust me, they will be found wanting. 

They are riding the high of Joses departure which can propell any team to glory. Lol.

My point is play the right players and set them in a way that maximize their ability. The players look shackled in a system that doesn't suit them and there is next to zero cohesion in the way we play at the moment.

[Unionjack 7,531]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

My point is play the right players and set them in a way that maximize their ability. The players look shackled in a system that doesn't suit them and there is next to zero cohesion in the way we play at the moment.

Agree a bit.

But as Ive said before the 2nd half of Shitty we played great. Wasn;t that long ago - same players!

If you watch the scout report of Sarris Napoli he had them in a rigid formation too.

When they moved whether forward or back they moved as a single unit. Like military marching.

They moved off the ball into the channels. Our lads dont move much off the ball into a position where our passers like Jorgi/Luiz can get it to them

[Belgiannutt 3,201]

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

My point is play the right players and set them in a way that maximize their ability. The players look shackled in a system that doesn't suit them and there is next to zero cohesion in the way we play at the moment.

Your point is silly. We brought Sarri in to move us towards attacking possession football. He's 6 months in the job and now you want him to adapt because some of our players  can't adapt to it ? Basically asking him to be pragmatic ?

No no no The players that can't adapt or are too  limited need to go. 

 

On a general side note : i honestly don't get this forum at times. Reading some of the nonsense on here you'd think we'd be a couple of points off relegation. We're 4 th ! 6 points ahead of Arsenal, United and 1 point behind Tottenham. 

And doing all that without a proper striker.  Chill the F out people.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Your point is silly. We brought Sarri in to move us towards attacking possession football. He's 6 months in the job and now you want him to adapt because some of our players  can't adapt to it ? Basically asking him to be pragmatic ?

No no no The players that can't adapt or are too  limited need to go. 

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable?  I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst. Decent in defence but horrendous in offence and the only difference is, we have more possession but even that is useless if we don't make it count. Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

16 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

On a general side note : i honestly don't get this forum at times. Reading some of the nonsense on here you'd think we'd be a couple of points off relegation. We're 4 th ! 6 points ahead of Arsenal, United and 1 point behind Tottenham.

Our league position may look good but let's not pretend the football has been good to watch. We haven't played well for 90 minutes for most part of the season, if there is any at all, we have been scraping victories of late as well, winning games only because of moments of individual brilliance rather than any cohesive team play. Plus, you never quite know with this team. Take a lead or concede a goal and we suddenly lose our way in matches. A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. 

[Vesper 28,968]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

It is silly to want the manager to at least be flexible or adaptable?  I'm not asking Sarri to toss his style out of the window but rather, make little tweaks to maximize out of what he's got at the moment. Instead, he has forced his style upon the players and we have been extremely dull to watch, basically playing the kind of football we saw under Mourinho/Conte at its worst. Decent in defence but horrendous in offence and the only difference is, we have more possession but even that is useless if we don't make it count. Why force your style upon the players if they can't adapt to it? Furthermore, it's easy to say that Sarri needs his kind of players to fully implement his style but this is Chelsea we're talking about. Is he ever gonna get all of his players? The board operate in their interest half of the time while Sarri has mentioned he doesn't care much about his transfers. If Sarri cannot adapt to what he's got for the time being, then it doesn't bode well for the future, does it? We criticized Mourinho/Conte in the past for being stubborn, playing the same thing over and over again etc and yet, Sarri is getting a free pass because he's only six months in, even though the warning signs are already there.

Our league position may look good but let's not pretend the football has been good to watch. We haven't played well for 90 minutes for most part of the season, if there is any at all, we have been scraping victories of late as well, winning games only because of moments of individual brilliance rather than any cohesive team play. Plus, you never quite know with this team. Take a lead or concede a goal and we suddenly lose our way in matches. A six-point lead on Arsenal and United with 16 games to go is nothing. 

We seem to be regressing.

[Henrique 9,133]

Sarri being the manager represents a club with no direction. Since 2012 the club is doing bad decisions in terms of football management. 

First big mistake: hiring Mourinho back in 2013. At that point the club was investing heavily in young players. Instead of paying big money for big names like Ballack, Crespo and Shevchenko, the club was getting Lukaku, Kevin de Bruyne, Hazard, Oscar. It was also a team in search of new leaders. Drogba was long gone, Lampard, Terry and Cech were aging. Mourinho just happened to be the worst manager for that kind of transfer policy and for what the team needed. 

After Mourinho the club got Conte. Dont get me wrong, Conte did a great job for one single season, but why he was the chosen one? Why the club decided he was the right man? It emerged days before Conte was annouced as the new manager, that Sampaoli didn’t get the job because his english was pretty poor. We are talking about 2 different animals...why thought both guys would make a good manager? Conte had nothing in his CV at that point o make him an exciting announcement.

Then the whole Conte vs Costa soap opera. That exposed a club without leadership. Why Conte was allowed to say that the main player in the whole squad was no longer needed and  still kept his job? If the club was serious, Conte would get sacked without questions. Instead, the club had to pay 70m for an average striker, because Antonio Conte said so, and still had to hear the manager moaning during the whole season.

Then they bring Sarri...why they thought Sarri would make a great coach? Why the club got a manager that demanded Jorginho, and a manager that was willing to sacrifice Kante, easily one of our most important players in past 2 seasons, and the hidden secret behind Leicester miracle, and a guy that just signed a big contract extention? 

Now it seems the club is willing to get a shitty old striker, because this striker worked with Sarri years ago.

Not to mention in past 2 seasons we only had one successful signing: Rudiger. 

In the past 2 seasons the clubs is spending money in Bakayoko, Palmieri, Zapaccosta, Giroud and Jorginho.