Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Vesper 27,310]

53 minutes ago, DDA said:

Anelka and Drogba.

If we had at least one of these two now, we wouldn't even be debating this. 

I personally love the way Sarri sets up. We play nice football. We need a striker man.

wish we had a time machine

 

[Laylabelle 9,296]

8 hours ago, Fernando said:

I think people have amnesia. 

Because the same people who are clamoring city and Liverpool fail to realize they was this dire in the first season. 

It's going to take time, you be obtuse to expect much of anything this season. 

Problem is if things don't improve he won't get the time to sort it anyway. If much the same next season probably he gone halfway. Whereas Liverpool and City stuck to it. 

[Fernando 6,376]

4 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

Problem is if things don't improve he won't get the time to sort it anyway. If much the same next season probably he gone halfway. Whereas Liverpool and City stuck to it. 

Well yes next year we must see some improvement. I agree on this. And I believe we will. 

[Tomo 21,681]

30 minutes ago, Mana said:

I fail to see how we have defensively improved over Sarri. We are still leaking in goals. I admit the defense unit are more in harmony compared to the beginning of the season, but we are still leaking in goals AND now, not scoring goals.

We have conceded 6 goals in 10 games and not given many big chances away outside of that, not sure how that equates to leaking goals.

[kc_blue 265]

Quote

1 hour ago, Mana said:

But you know, I'm seeing a pattern. People here are already clanging on to "It's Sarri's first season, look at Klopp/Pep!" just like they did with Morata (playing that Drogba card!), Bakayoko and co. What people fail to realise how stubborn Sarri is. You just have to look at what he's doing with CHO and the youths, and yesterday's game. I'm sorry, he doesn't need more time to realise Willian is shite.

He doesn't need more time to realise Alonso is terribad and Emerson is an available option.

He doesn't need more time to realise that he should change the formation and go for it because Spuds just weren't doing anything to us.

Am I calling for Sarri's head? No, but I'm fed up with people making tired excuses.

 

I think it's a valid point that changing a team usually takes time and both of those two examples are great examples of it.  Neither of those teams were all conquering right from the start under those 2 managers.  They both had problems that held them back.  Pep got much more of an infusion in the second season to push things along faster but Klopp has been steadily improving his team year on year and they both are reaping the rewards now 3 and 4 years on.  It's going to take a bit of patience from the board and the fans to really change things.  Don't lower your standards but perhaps be aware and accepting that this year isn't going to be up to those standards and that's not necessarily a failure in and of itself.

 

I could be wrong and I don't want to speak for Sarri but I doubt he has failed to realize Alonso is terribad or that Willian is shite.  In my opinion he just doesn't think there's a better option at the moment.  I wish he'd played CHO more earlier but I do believe CHO was going to start getting more minutes anyway.  I see that situation very much like the RLC situation.  Getting small opportunities and as they perform getting more time on the pitch.  As a coach in charge for 6 months he's been cautious, perhaps overly cautious, in making changes and trying not to upset the squad.  It can be tricky trying to integrate multiple players at a time.  I don't think I'd call him overly stubborn on players as much as I'd say he's been overly cautious.  I guess it amounts to the same in the end.  It's frustrating but like we have to take into account our history with youth when looking at the CHO situation I think we also need to taking into account our history with managers when looking at Sarri.  I can understand some caution on his part to avoid disrupting squad and making big changes quickly.  Anyway, not trying to make excuses as much as bring a different perspective.

[kc_blue 265]

Fair points.

[Tomo 21,681]

7 minutes ago, Mana said:

I should expand on the Klopp/Pep-Sarri comparison.

There is a major difference between Klopp/Pep and Sarri. Klopp and Pep has a proven history of winning titles/trophies. What has Sarri won? And you have to look at yesterday and maybe that's one of the reasons why he failed to win anything in his career!

At least Klopp on his first season, was experimenting with youths and what he's got. And he had some success! Thrashed City twice, beating us at the Bridge, 0-6 against Villa to name a few. Klopp's first season is unfair to compare as well, he was appointed during the season, replacing terrible Rodgers. Had no time to settle, worse than Sarri.

Pep on his first season, while it was overall disappointing he beat every top 6 side at least once except Spuds and Chelsea. Finished 3rd. Only lost 6 times. 

Another reason why we shouldn't compare, is because as everyone has said, Sarri has a tougher transition than these two. So it's a different story altogether! Klopp vs. Pep first season comparison makes more sense than Klopp vs. Sarri's.

I think we shouldn't be looking as his trophy record but more the way he got Napoli playing. Because that was why we appointed him and i think we are hoping the winning culture at the club will give us that push to make up for any possible lack of winning mentality with Sarri, like it did for City when they appointed Pellegrini. Infact it's almost a role reversal to when Jose first came, back then the performances were fine but we lacked the winning mentality, this time around we have the winning mentality but need performance finetuned.

Ultimately the reason the comparison's are made is because Sarri seems to be getting let down by a few players holding him back the same way both did. Pep was held back by average fullbacks and Bravo the same way we are by striker, it's a lot more personnel problem than a system problem like say Moyes at United was. If he gets his reinforcements and we still can't hit a barn door with a machine gun or we can't  get over the line in tournaments or minimum compete then fair enough he's had a fair crack and failed but at this minute he in my opinion he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

[Fernando 6,376]

12 minutes ago, Mana said:

I didn't want to bring up his trophy record, but when you compare Klopp and Pep with him, you have to bring that up as one of the points.

Winning mentality? I rarely got to see that last season, with all those spineless performances. 

I get what you're saying, that the players are not performing for Sarri. That's why I'm not calling for Sarri's neck at this point. I'm just simply telling you all to not ignore what Sarri has done, and covering it up with excuses. Can somebody tell me why he is afraid to use any of our title-winning youth squads? Why does he hug Willian and Alonso to death? Morata, I'll give him a pass because we really have nobody to replace him and Sarri has now opened his eyes that he's shite.

Yesterday this attacking line up:

CHO            Hazard

     Pedro/Giroud

...would have been much better. Every person knows, bar Sarri playing Hazard as a false nine rarely works. Yesterday's formation was all about fitting in Willian. If CHO didn't make noise, CHO would have been benched (or not in the squad at all).

And Barkley was screwing up. Should have been replaced by Kovacic since the start of the 2nd half. It's these little things that make me question Sarri. 

Sarri no question, I agree is being held back by donkeys. But this is the Mickey Mouse cup, you can gamble and bring on some well established youths FFS that will arguably play better. Sarri, has no excuse for us losing yesterday. Using VAR error as an excuse is not good enough.

This says it all. As I said before you be obtuse to expect much this season, and your expectation are too high. 

[Fernando 6,376]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

When Spuds don't turn up, you expect to take advantage of that. 

But the way we lost is frustrating. 

Also here's the thing. You are saying my expectations are too high. We are Chelsea Football Club, not Everton or West Ham. We shouldn't accept that defeat. Especially to bloody Spuds. I don't want this is be routine, Spuds beating us. Luckily it's only the first leg and we can still turn it around. I don't expect us to beat Man City in the final and I didn't expect us to win against high-flying Spuds yesterday, but Spuds weren't high-flying and they rarely tested Kepa. So I expected at least a result from that game. We lost it.

My expectation is too high to at least get a draw against Spuds? Nah man, disagree.

 

Yes too high.

And we are Chelsea football club? what does that mean? accept what? Are you basing this on the last 10 years?  

Well let me tell you that the last few years we have been buying average players, we are no longer the Chelsea from 10 years ago where we will have the best. Now we are approaching more like an Arsenal type of club. And that is what the board and owner have put us at.

So lower your expectations. 

[Fernando 6,376]

13 minutes ago, Mana said:

...even back in the day before Roman came in with all his money, we were still beating Spuds.

...and we should accept that? We should have this defeatist attitude now?

Never said be a defeatist, but you came throwing at me, We are Chelsea football club. What does that mean? Does that mean we have a high expectation because of the top players we have? 

If you say that and we have the best of the best, then yes I would say we have no excuse. 

But when you say that and we have crap players, then obviously the standard you have has changed. Because the club don't see us as that standard your holding. If they did they will not settle for less. 

The way the club is being run, shows that we don't hold that same prestige as before. And because of this, your expectation are the same of 10 years ago. And that is being obtuse. 

[kc_blue 265]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Yesterday this attacking line up:

CHO            Hazard

     Pedro/Giroud

...would have been much better. Every person knows, bar Sarri playing Hazard as a false nine rarely works. Yesterday's formation was all about fitting in Willian. If CHO didn't make noise, CHO would have been benched (or not in the squad at all).

I think yesterdays attacking line up was more about lack of fitness then shoehorning Willian in to be honest.  I don't think Giroud was capable of playing many minutes and Pedro was coming back from injury as well.  For that matter, so was Willian.  As for CHO, we'll never know because of all the noise but I expect he would have been starting to get more minutes now regardless, just like RLC earlier in the season.  That's all hypothetical of course since there has been all this noise.  

[Fernando 6,376]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

I'm not saying we should be winning the league or grabbing trophies with these players. Obviously Chelsea should be competing for the title, but all of us understand that we don't have the players to compete. My expectations have definitely dropped especially for this season, I've been saying from the beginning we will probably finish 5th as long Morata is our main CF.

When I said we are Chelsea FC, I was really referring to yesterday's performance and the expectation of challenging Spuds. Are we that bad, that we couldn't challenge Spuds, even when they are awful? Personally, I don't think so. We should have at least gotten a draw yesterday. That squad was good enough to get that. But it was down to tactics and the players selected.

So you think we will draw and win with a striker right? 

Placing your confidence on who? Morata? Giroud? 

I think the fact we are playing false 9 is because of the strikers the club have bought for us. Because playing with those guys is like playing with one less. 

Okay I take it back, Giroud I always saw as a super sub, the fact that we have to depend on him as a starter shows how poorly the club have left us. 

[kc_blue 265]

Quote

1 minute ago, Mana said:

But this CF position is giving me a headache.

 

I think we can all agree on this.

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

Winning mentality? I rarely got to see that last season, with all those spineless performances. 

Even then we still won the cup. When you can win trophies even in season's when you are average to rubbish (especially repeatedly like we have) that makes the case for the winning mentality stronger.

[Fernando 6,376]

9 minutes ago, Mana said:

.... *sigh* checkmate.  But still...maybe Pedro?

Hazard as false 9 is almost like playing with 10 men as well. But this CF position is giving me a headache.

In fact let's think about this. We hear that Sarri is rigid with his formation. 

He loves the 4-3-3. And he knows that a 4-3-3 requires a striker, not a false 9. 

The fact he does that, show he is not that rigid.....but then again the fact he plays Hazard there shows we have a major problem. 

I'm at pain as you are with this whole situation. But I can't blame the man, I know what he is trying to do but he has to do with what he has. 

I just ask to give him next season. If next season we are still playing the same dull boring futbol, then call for his head. 

P.S. On the other side I do dislike the way he has handle the cho situation. I have been saying this for years, since god knows who that all the manager we get are not good with youth. We keep getting manager that are not good for this and expect them to do it. The club is stupid for this, if you want youth, then get managers that will do this! 

[Vesper 27,310]

We are hanging by a thread

at multiple levels

this CHO assfuck has super damaged my faith

If we don't do MASSIVE business this month

I am 100% calling for the club to be sold

I have bad feeling that Barella deal is going to bust up because he will not want to come here due to chaos and uncertainty

I am also terrified we actually will BUY Higuain and think striker is sorted

I think Sarri may well keep rolling out Alonso and Willian until he is stopped via the sacking

If we do no more business (or just Higs)

and sell Cho

and Sarri refuses to stop playing Alonso and Willian so much

he needs to go

he just cost us CHO

that shit is all on him

he handled it TERRIBLY

[kc_blue 265]

If I recall CHO had a contract offer before Sarri showed up and still hasn't signed it.  I wouldn't put the blame on him, at least not all of it.  I think the CHO situation is strongly linked to what has happened with our past youth players well before Sarri got on the scene.  He isn't blameless, just wouldn't be the major target of my ire.  That would be higher up the food chain.  We are reaping what we've sown with our past lack of youth integration.

[Tomo 21,681]

13 minutes ago, Vesper said:

hink Sarri may well keep rolling out Alonso and Willian until he is stopped via the sacking

Before he started playing false 9 Willian only started if there was something wrong with Hazard or Pedro.