Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[the wes 7,212]

The ones jumping on the lampard Train I bet ye they will be first ones calling for him to be sacked if he doesn't do well lamps is not ready yet let him gain experience as a manager FFS before going for him 

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

Sarri isn't as stubborn as he was. He is adapting but slowing. Don't jump on me, I didn't say he was NO LONGER stubborn I said he was less stubborn. 

He grew more confident in CHO. He dropped kovacic for RLC towards the end. He dropped Alonso for Emerson. He doesn't even start Higuain every game because he can see it's not working. 

He won't be successful in my view next season but i don't think he'd be a disaster, a little stability (that's including some stable performances) wouldn't hurt in this turmoil. 

Without Hazard, we may well have to play more quick passes. It's a shame Ruben got injured as well as CHO

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

Like you were gonna suddenly say "Lampard is ready for us" had Derby won. 🙄

Well he isnt but again, there would be more faith from me if his team had at least shown up in their biggest game of the season. He isnt ready and should be appointed on merits as a manager, not as an ex player. Big games have veen our Achilles heel this season as well and other than the game vs Leeds from what I have seen of Derby, if we played like that against big teams many people wouldnt be happy.

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Well he isnt but again, there would be more faith from me if his team had at least shown up in their biggest game of the season. He isnt ready and should be appointed on merits as a manager, not as an ex player. Big games have veen our Achilles heel this season as well and other than the game vs Leeds from what I have seen of Derby, if we played like that against big teams many people wouldnt be happy.

You talked about merit and yet you're judging Lampard based on 1-2 games rather than the entire season season with Derby...

Playing the big teams? Did you see how his Derby played against us and United in the League Cup? 

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Come on now. I’m not asking Lampard to win a trophy. Finishing top half mixing with Everton/Leicester/Wolves would be enough.

A good job at what? Transforming Alonso in to Roberto Carlos? 

If he comes in, develops young talent and gets us to finish in the Top 4 again?

7 minutes ago, Mana said:

If he has done well and proved he is more than capable than managing us, he should have promoted Derby for starters. He barely just about made it to the playoff finals.

Again, I’m not saying Lampard should never manage us. But right now this isn’t the time. Stop trying to rush things. Rushing things 8 times out of 10 will lead to failure.

A final can sometimes go either way and furthermore, it's not like Derby came up against some woeful team. Villa were in good form going into the match.

All people have said is "Lampard is not ready", "now isn't the right time for Lampard" bla bla bla but no one seem bothered to even explain why so. 

[Jase 43,479]

5 minutes ago, Mana said:

The chances of that are very low. Besides, what’s stopping him from doing this in 2021? When we are more background information on Lampard?

Chances...Just like when no expected us to qualify for Champions League in April but we somehow fucking did it.

And having another year of Sarri would be like signing your death warrant...

7 minutes ago, Mana said:

It’s not just the final. It’s the whole season. You DO know there’s automatic promotion to the PL, right? If he’s that good, he would have grabbed those instead of gambling in the final.

So you have to get a team automatically promoted to qualify for the job?

7 minutes ago, Mana said:

Neither did the Lampard ins. All you’ve been doing is trying to sell us a dream like Brexit.

And those anti-Lampards are making this as it's the worst idea ever...

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

You talked about merit and yet you're judging Lampard based on 1-2 games rather than the entire season season with Derby...

Playing the big teams? Did you see how his Derby played against us and United in the League Cup? 

What about Derbys spell this season where they were poor as well and dropped points? Do people honestly think Lampard would take over at get better than a 3rd place finish and 2 cup finals? Even which for a poor season with a lot of rumours regarding Sarri getting sacked, at least we got over the line... I know you dont like Sarri and many others dont but to replace him with Lampard next season would be incredibly risky and a mistake. Derby only finished 6th. Yes they got the play offs but 6th in the championship, considering the fact he spent 9m on Waghorn, signed Mount and Wilson on loan(very good calibre for the championship), has the likes of Huddlestone, Carson, Olsson guys with PL experience... you could argue the likes of Biesla or any other manager with those resources would have gotten a higher finish than 6th.

If Sarri goes, which is looking more and more likely each day, Allegri has to be the top choice although he will have many offers. Very good record, expeirence managing big players at Juventus and AC Milan and which should be a massive appeal to this club a winner with both.

Yes 2 league cup games but a lot of championship teams give PL teams tough games in them. Remember we lost to Bradford City years ago? Does that mean their manager would be a good fit? No. David Wagner got promoted with Huddersfield, would he of been good enough? No. Is the bloke who got Villa promoted good enough? No...

If we had any other manager than Sarri you'd disagree regarding Lamps. I also dont see Lampard coming in and playing youth regularly which people are making a case for again (Tomori and Mount maybe good enough for Derby every week but if people are under the impression theyd manage to be regulars next season, for the love of god, squad players maybe but again squad players dont necessarily feature thst often). For all Sarris faults he used Christensen, RLC and Callum this season - yes not a lot early doors but they made more appearances than most other academy products have here in god knows how long. They are at a much better level than Mount and Tomori to play. Reece James is probably more ready and more mature than those 2 to be integrated into the Chelsea squad despite playing for Wigan, who were at the other end of the table. Even Tammy has a much better chance next year.

Lampard (even Gerrard for Liverpool in the future), yes he will hopefully manage us at some point and Id be all for it based on if hes proven himself in some capacity as a manager but next season, that not far too soon? And when we probably only finish 3rd or 4th next year again? Or maybe worse with the transfer ban and Spurs, Arsenal all strengthening? 

You would think Lampard had done a Jose and won the CL with Porto or done a Pep and won countless trophies with Barca.... And theres no such thing as anybody being anti Lampard but there is definitely an anti Sarri agenda.... has been for months. If Sarri goes, considering the shit we have here, transfer ban, losing key players, we need someone with good experience to build us back up. Lampard would be out of his depth.

[Superblue 6,372]

For me, I see next season (assuming the ban is enforced) to be the perfect opportunity to set in motion a rebuild of the squad. With the inflation of transfer fees over the last couple of years, if we were to rebuild fully through the market it could take years.

We have to create pathways for some of our academy to break through to alleviate the pressure of rebuilding through the transfer market. If there are other players like CHO and RLC who show real potential to become important first choice players at the club, then that is phenomenal but ultimately we need to be finding 4 or 5 players who at the very least can become good, dependable squad players. This will prevent us squandering more money in the future on the likes of Zappacosta and Drinkwater and instead be able to use our resources to buy higher quality players because less are required. If we are ever going to get the ball rolling with this, then this coming season is the one to do that in.

My concern with a manager like Allegri or anyone really on the continent with limited or no experience of English football is would it simply present yet another chance for players who haven't been performing? Would someone like Allegri be prepared to give sufficient game time to CHO and Pulisic who should be afforded that next season, or will the reliance be on the experienced, well renowned names of Willian and Pedro? Would Reece James be given first team opportunities or would Azpi be heavily leaned on again to play 50+ games? Would Tammy be given a go over the likes of Morata and Batshuayi?

This is one of the big reasons why if Sarri were to leave, I would choose Lampard. I've said before that I believe Lampard would manage the club with the club coming first as opposed to any manager who would come in with no prior links to Chelsea and put themselves first. I think Lampard would be prepared to give younger players opportunities and freshen up the squad where he can in that regard, even if he wasn't here to 'finish the job' because he would want the long term success of the club. 

The return of Jody Morris should also not be underestimated as part of such a move either. If Lampard is the man prepared to offer these opportunities, being able to lean on the man who is the most experienced coach in dealing with these boys would be a huge coup. There's no one better placed to offer an expert opinion on all of them from ability to character, strengths to weaknesses.

Next season could be and I think will be rough regardless of who is in charge. We're poised to start next season without our talisman, and question marks over the long term fitness of our best centre back and two best young players. At present there are so many gaps within not just our starting XI but our whole squad but a (forced) year of true transition could answer some of these question marks within the squad and even find another player or two who can be last seasons version of CHO and RLC.

I worry that the wrong move (which ironically may be deemed the safe and less risky option) would waste an opportunity to potentially come out of the mess this transfer ban is leaving us in.

[Pizy 18,417]

So by the end of this week we'll likely know 3 massive things: that Hazard is going, that Sarri is probably going, and whether or not we can sign any players this summer.

Even by our standards this is looking like the craziest summer ever. And honestly, none of it is looking good. We're set to appoint a manager with literally zero top level managerial experience and we're going to ask him to take control of a squad that's already nowhere near good enough to challenge and not be able to add to it. And that's before those clubs that are already better than us improve further.

Higuain and Giroud as our strikers for another whole season. Willian and Pedro starting every week again. Azpi as a RB all season again. 

White flag waved before kicking a ball.

[Tomo 21,733]

5 hours ago, Mana said:

Come on now. I’m not asking Lampard to win a trophy. Finishing top half mixing with Everton/Leicester/Wolves would be enough.

A good job at what? Transforming Alonso in to Roberto Carlos? 

If he has done well and proved he is more than capable than managing us, he should have promoted Derby for starters. He barely just about made it to the playoff finals.

Im sorry but where have you got the idea from that he "should have promoted" Derby?

Given he's gone in changed the playing style completely aswell as reduced the wage bill and the average age of the squad I'd say he's done very well maintaining their league position and then going one better in the playoffs.

Usually with such drastic changes as to what he oversaw at the club see's a massive short term fall from grace, he's done well to maintain the results.

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Im sorry but where have you got the idea from that he "should have promoted" Derby?

Given he's gone in changed the playing style completely aswell as reduced the wage bill and the average age of the squad I'd say he's done very well maintaining their league position and then going one better in the playoffs.

Usually with such drastic changes as to what he oversaw at the club see's a massive short term fall from grace, he's done well to maintain the results.

That is exactly what Sarri has done here, although for a majority its not good enough or merely enough to maintain his job... so if it isnt good enough for Sarri in somes eyes why is it good enough to say about Lampard? Different clubs and different capacities but undoubtedly it will be mentioned by some regarding Lampard as a potential appointment.

Looking at Derby's season, theyve finished 6th with 1 point less than when they finished 6th last season under Gary Rowett and have a worse goal difference. Some people have said on social media it was good season, some bad, some feel because Frank Lampard is Frank Lampard and the fact they made the playoff final the seasons being looked at in a more positive note but its  fair point to argue they arent much better off than last season and considering Mount and Wilsom who contributed to 40 goals between them will not be returning its fair to say they might not.manage as well next year considering a large bulk of their squad are aging as well. This lowering the age shit is also a double ended sword, Mount, Timori and Harry Wilson, all under 23 and featured almost every week, arent actually on the books of Derby County they are loan players like aluded to above. The likes of Scott Carson, Craig Byrson, Richard Keown, Tom Huddlestone, Bradley Johnston, David Nugent, among others, all made regular amounts of apperances and are all about 30 year old or above. The only actual kid from the Derby academy Frank gave regular minutes to was Jayden Bogle, who did make a tonne of appearances for a 17/18 year old.

I get the wage cut and perhaps hes done well for them not to drop off completely but to say that he has done remarkably well is a huge overstatement I think. If he got them promoted, yes, you could say he did well but he didnt and from someone who doesnt like the playoff format of the championship as it is (finishing 4th, 5th or 6th and getting the chance to gain promotion is ridiclous) take that away would you say finishing 6th is really that good? 

I think if he manages to better that next season, without Mount, without Wilson, he will have done a pretty remarkable job because you cannot doubt how key they have been to Derby this season. The boy Wilson was a real breakthrough for them this season and can definitely play at a higher level. Mount perhaps as well, like has been mentioned Leipzig among others sniffing around but remains to be seen. Maybe Villa might fancy a punt on him next season?

[Jase 43,479]

10 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

What about Derbys spell this season where they were poor as well and dropped points? Do people honestly think Lampard would take over at get better than a 3rd place finish and 2 cup finals? Even which for a poor season with a lot of rumours regarding Sarri getting sacked, at least we got over the line... I know you dont like Sarri and many others dont but to replace him with Lampard next season would be incredibly risky and a mistake. Derby only finished 6th. Yes they got the play offs but 6th in the championship, considering the fact he spent 9m on Waghorn, signed Mount and Wilson on loan(very good calibre for the championship), has the likes of Huddlestone, Carson, Olsson guys with PL experience... you could argue the likes of Biesla or any other manager with those resources would have gotten a higher finish than 6th.

Bigger, better clubs don't experience poor spells? Man City lost something like 3 league games in 4 this past season while Liverpool blew a 7-point lead at the top (or whatever it was) by drawing 4 games in 6. Similar poor spells were also seen with Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona...

Funny you mentioned Bielsa because his teams are known to start well and then fall off the cliff, which was what happened with Leeds and look at them imploding against Derby as well...

10 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

If Sarri goes, which is looking more and more likely each day, Allegri has to be the top choice although he will have many offers. Very good record, expeirence managing big players at Juventus and AC Milan and which should be a massive appeal to this club a winner with both.

Am fine with Allegri.

As I said to Mana, having another season of Sarri would be like signing a death warrant, especially if the transfer ban sticks!

10 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

If we had any other manager than Sarri you'd disagree regarding Lamps. I also dont see Lampard coming in and playing youth regularly which people are making a case for again (Tomori and Mount maybe good enough for Derby every week but if people are under the impression theyd manage to be regulars next season, for the love of god, squad players maybe but again squad players dont necessarily feature thst often). For all Sarris faults he used Christensen, RLC and Callum this season - yes not a lot early doors but they made more appearances than most other academy products have here in god knows how long. They are at a much better level than Mount and Tomori to play. Reece James is probably more ready and more mature than those 2 to be integrated into the Chelsea squad despite playing for Wigan, who were at the other end of the table. Even Tammy has a much better chance next year.

If we can't sign anyone this summer, what makes you think we won't use our youth players a little bit more? Do you really want to see the manager flog the senior players to death again? Sarri, Lampard or whoever might be the manager can't build for the long term if they don't develop the young players. 

[gdlk 272]

Cant believe ppl want Alegri, Simeone and other park buss drivers....  Cmon football is evolving, that's why Atletico and Juve lost.. Today modern football is the atacking football!!! 

[Blue Armour 4,312]

28 minutes ago, gdlk said:

Cant believe ppl want Alegri, Simeone and other park buss drivers....  Cmon football is evolving, that's why Atletico and Juve lost.. Today modern football is the atacking football!!! 

If we go back to our pragmatic approach...smh...that was only ever good when we had intelligent players that could exploit that type of system.

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Another massive thing, the result of the EL final. Which is gives us a ticket to the Super Cup, a cup that we failed to win twice. It's really the only available trophy Chelsea hasn't won.

We have. Or were you not a fan then? 

[MoroccanBlue 5,318]

6 minutes ago, Mana said:

Dang! I missed it. No, I wasn't as then I was 8. Wasn't in to football then.

Still, I want us to win the Super Cup, as it's the only trophy I haven't seen Chelsea lift up.

Would be good to be familiar with our history. 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Bigger, better clubs don't experience poor spells? Man City lost something like 3 league games in 4 this past season while Liverpool blew a 7-point lead at the top (or whatever it was) by drawing 4 games in 6. Similar poor spells were also seen with Bayern, Juventus, Barcelona...

Funny you mentioned Bielsa because his teams are known to start well and then fall off the cliff, which was what happened with Leeds and look at them imploding against Derby as well...

Am fine with Allegri.

As I said to Mana, having another season of Sarri would be like signing a death warrant, especially if the transfer ban sticks!

If we can't sign anyone this summer, what makes you think we won't use our youth players a little bit more? Do you really want to see the manager flog the senior players to death again? Sarri, Lampard or whoever might be the manager can't build for the long term if they don't develop the young players. 

And when we had a bad spell werent people on here not slagging Sarri off? Cant work one way for those teams and not for us... 

Biesla is a better manager in my eyes, didnt have the greatesr spells in the last few years which I am surprised about considering how well he did with Bilbao. Still shocked he hasnt got another chance at a bigger club considering how highly he is regarded. A real engima although he is a fiery character as shown as Lille and Lazio.

No manager is instantly going to come in and drop 5 older players for 5 youngsters if that is what people are expecting or hoping for. Theres too much pressure here, it must be intense for a manager where every season the club most likely expects a trophy and league finish of 3rd or above, having sacked managers for finishing 2nd as well or for winning a trophy still. Yes we have young players we need to integrate but its it will never happen here like it does at an Ajax or whoever else. Yet again a new manager opens up chances for the likes of Luiz (as proved with Sarri), Alonso, Willian, Pedro to all have another chance to impress instead of being phased out or moved on. 

[Jase 43,479]

Hardly sounds committed to staying...