Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

[Tomo 21,680]

5 minutes ago, Jason said:

No, I didn't expect the season to be smooth sailing but I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting some form of progression or improvement under Sarri. With Pep, with Klopp in their first season, you could see what they were trying to do, you could see they were willing to adapt, make tactical tweaks etc but with Sarri, it's been very messy and it's hard to say that 'yes, things will get better' with all the BS-ness he's pulled off this season. And this is what I keep coming back to when people say Sarri should stay on for a second season. People either counter opposing arguments or in this case, use examples of other managers to justify sticking with Sarri. WHAT ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE THIS SEASON? What has Sarri done this season to deserve a second season, especially after countless of embarrassments in 2019 alone?!

There's a hell of a lot of re writing history with Klopp's early time at Liverpool.

His first season he oversaw statically their worse season for about half a century and he didn't sort out the defensive woes for over two years giving the likes of Lovren, Moreno and the two chuckle brother in goal chance after chance before finally replacing them in the market, as recently as last season some Liverpool fans turned against Klopp for it.

Up until the back end of last season, there was absolutely no signs whatsoever that Klopp was going to have Liverpool anywhere near the level they currently are.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Antonio8 said:

you have to wait the end of the season to answer that, maybe he will reach the targets maybe not  

Even if we win the Europa League and/or finish in the Top 4, it doesn't take away the fact that Sarri hasn't done greatly this season.

[Antonio8 736]

Just now, Jason said:

Even if we win the Europa League and/or finish in the Top 4, it doesn't take away the fact that Sarri hasn't done greatly this season.

lol 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

There's a hell of a lot of re writing history with Klopp's early time at Liverpool.

His first season he oversaw statically their worse season for about half a century and he didn't sort out the defensive woes for over two years giving the likes of Lovren, Moreno and the two chuckle brother in goal chance after chance before finally replacing them in the market, as recently as last season some Liverpool fans turned against Klopp for it.

Up until the back end of last season, there was absolutely no signs whatsoever that Klopp was going to have Liverpool anywhere near the level they currently are.

It was slow but there was progression. He started improving Liverpool from the front before going backwards. 

[Fernando 6,374]

I'm starting to realize that the coming years are going to be another golden years of youth. Since the Lampard, Terry, Scholes, Rooney and what not. 

The German teams are realizing this and thus wanting to get the younger players from the PL. 

Mourinho nor Conte where good for this. Sarri was not until recently. He has bought me a bit with the treatment of RLC. 

I want to give him next season and see what kind of progress we get with our youth because we need to have a manager that will play youth and help them develop. 

[Henrique 9,133]

Its pretty funny:

-People says Sarri must say, because Guardiola was also bad in his first season, then became superb in 2 season.

-Same people go to European Football topic and call Guardiola a fraud after he is out of UCL.

[Henrique 9,133]

16 hours ago, Tomo said:

Four games away from the end of the league and we are 4 points of last seasons total, you would think/hope we will at the very worst match it. 

Considering Conte job last season was as bad as our famous renegades: Scolari and Villas Boas, I won't read too much into matching the total points of last season.

Sarri is probably the worst manager of Abramovich era. He doesn't deserve another season. 

[OneMoSalah 8,607]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

No, I didn't expect the season to be smooth sailing but I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting some form of progression or improvement under Sarri. With Pep, with Klopp in their first season, you could see what they were trying to do, you could see they were willing to adapt, make tactical tweaks etc but with Sarri, it's been very messy and it's hard to say that 'yes, things will get better' with all the BS-ness he's pulled off this season. And this is what I keep coming back to when people say Sarri should stay on for a second season. People either counter opposing arguments or in this case, use examples of other managers to justify sticking with Sarri. WHAT ABOUT WHAT HE'S DONE THIS SEASON? What has Sarri done this season to deserve a second season, especially after countless of embarrassments in 2019 alone?!

I think its clear to see what hes trying to implenent, no? Whether or not, Sarri is for some people or not but for anybody to say they cant see what hes trying to do here is a bit naive in all honesty. The way of playing is totally the opposite of what it was last year. Playing out at every opportunity, taking the game to the opposition, having more possession, more pressure higher up the pitch to recover the ball. Its clesd to see, although attack is not effective.

Lets not forget Klopp and Pep again (although they are better coaches) were stubborn in their first seasons, Pep suffered some heavy loses in his first season and people said his style "would not work", fast forward to his 3rd season, hes potentially gonna be the first manager to win the PL 2 years in a row since Sir Alex Ferguson. Yes hes signed players, changed things but his first season probably mirrors Sarris in a lot of ways, City struggled for consistency, remember they got turned over 4-2 by Leicester, beat 4-0 by Everton, lost to us, United, Spurs, Arsenal... also drew with Boro and Southampton and people were unconvinced that his style was sustainable.

I think Sarri deserves every chance to have another season, the change in style is massive, its towards the style of football fans and even the owner has wanted to see associated with this club since Pep burst onto the scene at Barca as a manager. Or look at it this way, for instance put any coach here, even another guy doing the reverse of what Sarri is doing changing the philosophy with a squad of players that arent suited or arent his players. Do you bin him after a year? Yes weve not put any trees up this season but neither did we under Jose in our first year of his 2nd spell although we still got top 4 but the work he'd got in to the team along with a few top additions helped us win the league. 2nd half of the season we ground a lot of results out playing like we did under Jose in some of those games against the bigger and better sides the previous season. Your saying what has Sarri shown this year, yes not a massive deal but again you can see whats tryna be implemented. I dont know if Pep or even Klopp would do a lot lot better with this squad, with Morata for half a season and Higuain for the next half of it. With average back line and no creativity in midfield. They are elite coaches but hardly miracle workers, still feel Conte was very lucky he inherited a squad that had the brilliance of Hazard, 20 goals a season striker in Costa, Cesc who could turn a game in a pass and Matic whos steady performances along side Kante gave us a massive chance. Doesnt take away all the changes he made but still if we had a 20 goal a season striker and a creative midfielder wed be top 4. 

 

[MoroccanBlue 5,187]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

It was slow but there was progression

So you have seen no progression under Sarri? 

I see a team that has endured 2 managers who imposed conservative methods. Sarri comes in, and I see that same team improve in ball retention and the ability to play out from the back under pressure. Better than we ever have. 

2 hours ago, Jason said:

 He started improving Liverpool from the front before going backwards. 

And Sarri is changing the playing culture of the team before upgrading on what we have. 

[Fernando 6,374]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Its pretty funny:

-People says Sarri must say, because Guardiola was also bad in his first season, then became superb in 2 season.

-Same people go to European Football topic and call Guardiola a fraud after he is out of UCL.

Only fools call Pep a fraud. 

Anyone with a right mind can see the differences he has done for the teams. 

Just because he gets bad luck in CL does not mean much. 

The real test is always the league, and he has transform city immense in the league. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

51 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

I think its clear to see what hes trying to implenent, no? Whether or not, Sarri is for some people or not but for anybody to say they cant see what hes trying to do here is a bit naive in all honesty. The way of playing is totally the opposite of what it was last year. Playing out at every opportunity, taking the game to the opposition, having more possession, more pressure higher up the pitch to recover the ball. Its clesd to see, although attack is not effective.

Lets not forget Klopp and Pep again (although they are better coaches) were stubborn in their first seasons, Pep suffered some heavy loses in his first season and people said his style "would not work", fast forward to his 3rd season, hes potentially gonna be the first manager to win the PL 2 years in a row since Sir Alex Ferguson. Yes hes signed players, changed things but his first season probably mirrors Sarris in a lot of ways, City struggled for consistency, remember they got turned over 4-2 by Leicester, beat 4-0 by Everton, lost to us, United, Spurs, Arsenal... also drew with Boro and Southampton and people were unconvinced that his style was sustainable.

I think Sarri deserves every chance to have another season, the change in style is massive, its towards the style of football fans and even the owner has wanted to see associated with this club since Pep burst onto the scene at Barca as a manager. Or look at it this way, for instance put any coach here, even another guy doing the reverse of what Sarri is doing changing the philosophy with a squad of players that arent suited or arent his players. Do you bin him after a year? Yes weve not put any trees up this season but neither did we under Jose in our first year of his 2nd spell although we still got top 4 but the work he'd got in to the team along with a few top additions helped us win the league. 2nd half of the season we ground a lot of results out playing like we did under Jose in some of those games against the bigger and better sides the previous season. Your saying what has Sarri shown this year, yes not a massive deal but again you can see whats tryna be implemented. I dont know if Pep or even Klopp would do a lot lot better with this squad, with Morata for half a season and Higuain for the next half of it. With average back line and no creativity in midfield. They are elite coaches but hardly miracle workers, still feel Conte was very lucky he inherited a squad that had the brilliance of Hazard, 20 goals a season striker in Costa, Cesc who could turn a game in a pass and Matic whos steady performances along side Kante gave us a massive chance. Doesnt take away all the changes he made but still if we had a 20 goal a season striker and a creative midfielder wed be top 4. 

Pretty sure we have gone through this argument before and we didn't agree before and we certainly won't agree now. So, agree to disagree and stop quoting me, Ryan! 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, Henrique said:

Its pretty funny:

-People says Sarri must say, because Guardiola was also bad in his first season, then became superb in 2 season.

-Same people go to European Football topic and call Guardiola a fraud after he is out of UCL.

Unpopular opinion probably but I hope we are nothing like Pep anytime in the future. 

If we try to model after someone, it should be Klopp.

If not for the style, then certainly from financial aspect. City can spend twice as much as we can, while Liverpool is around the same, so reaching the top is more realistic for us if we follow Liverpool project rather than City one.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

35 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Only fools call Pep a fraud. 

Anyone with a right mind can see the differences he has done for the teams. 

Just because he gets bad luck in CL does not mean much. 

The real test is always the league, and he has transform city immense in the league. 

 

Well he did make City dominate league, but why?

Because he has world class attack and equaly world class back up for each of them, except for DM. Why? Because his cash pit is limitless.  However there is a problem with spending. Because all he got is a bunch of mercenaries that dont give two shits about City tbh. 

That allows him to keep his players fresh, also if Sterling injures himself, he still has Mahrez and Sane on the bench for example. Thats absolutely crazy.

Its easy to dwarf the likes of burnley, newcastle etc. But we have all seen how city struggles when they go against team that wont take shit from them, like Liverpool this and last year or Chelsea last year. 

Same is in CL, teams wont take shit from Pep, they want to win. And so far they did. Pep lost to frikin Monaco and this year to Spuds. Neither is prime Real or Barca. 

I must say Pep is a genious in his own way. He made a way to dominate the league by blasting away everything below top 6. 

He created big fish in a small pound. Whenever they play a strong determined opponent, they lose 9/10 times. 

But his City is nowhere near elite. 

His philosophy is interesting and quite special indeed. But as a manager he achieved nothing in europe since he left barca and for obvious reasons. Because he has a million flaws. No backup plan, rotates key players all the time, so he cant expect them to give 110% because they know they might not play next time, his love for ball playing CBs instead of defenders that can actualy defend etc.

He won the league with record points, but this has to be the most overrated english team I have ever seen. Some say it could be the best ever, I can only laugh. United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Pool have all had better teams, teams that won back to back titles or won CL. Even Pool has a chance now to completely outshine City if they win PL this year, nevermind CL.

I can confidently say Pep is never going to win CL with City. There are three knockout rounds to the final and there will always be at least one smaller team that will give everything to win or a big club that will simply outplay them. 

Same can be applied to Psg. I bet they would always finish in top 3 if they played in PL. But they cant do shit in CL. 

Dont get me wrong, these days he is a good coach, but nowhere near great one.

[Fernando 6,374]

37 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Well he did make City dominate league, but why?

Because he has world class attack and equaly world class back up for each of them, except for DM. Why? Because his cash pit is limitless.  However there is a problem with spending. Because all he got is a bunch of mercenaries that dont give two shits about City tbh. 

That allows him to keep his players fresh, also if Sterling injures himself, he still has Mahrez and Sane on the bench for example. Thats absolutely crazy.

Its easy to dwarf the likes of burnley, newcastle etc. But we have all seen how city struggles when they go against team that wont take shit from them, like Liverpool this and last year or Chelsea last year. 

Same is in CL, teams wont take shit from Pep, they want to win. And so far they did. Pep lost to frikin Monaco and this year to Spuds. Neither is prime Real or Barca. 

I must say Pep is a genious in his own way. He made a way to dominate the league by blasting away everything below top 6. 

He created big fish in a small pound. Whenever they play a strong determined opponent, they lose 9/10 times. 

But his City is nowhere near elite. 

His philosophy is interesting and quite special indeed. But as a manager he achieved nothing in europe since he left barca and for obvious reasons. Because he has a million flaws. No backup plan, rotates key players all the time, so he cant expect them to give 110% because they know they might not play next time, his love for ball playing CBs instead of defenders that can actualy defend etc.

He won the league with record points, but this has to be the most overrated english team I have ever seen. Some say it could be the best ever, I can only laugh. United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Pool have all had better teams, teams that won back to back titles or won CL. Even Pool has a chance now to completely outshine City if they win PL this year, nevermind CL.

I can confidently say Pep is never going to win CL with City. There are three knockout rounds to the final and there will always be at least one smaller team that will give everything to win or a big club that will simply outplay them. 

Same can be applied to Psg. I bet they would always finish in top 3 if they played in PL. But they cant do shit in CL. 

Dont get me wrong, these days he is a good coach, but nowhere near great one.

Well the same can be said about us, we buy mercenaries as well that don't give much about the club. 

About spending we also spend big in the last couple of seasons. Morata, Bakayoko, Drinkwater. 

The difference is that Pep gets good player while we get crap players. 

Let's not even talk about how much United have spend to get where they at. 

Pep is just a genius and one of the best coaches in the world. He has done great with city and brought City to a dominance force, something we nor United are despite all that money spent! 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

32 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Well the same can be said about us, we buy mercenaries as well that don't give much about the club. 

About spending we also spend big in the last couple of seasons. Morata, Bakayoko, Drinkwater. 

The difference is that Pep gets good player while we get crap players. 

Let's not even talk about how much United have spend to get where they at. 

Pep is just a genius and one of the best coaches in the world. He has done great with city and brought City to a dominance force, something we nor United are despite all that money spent! 

He is good but his teams have peak at average teams. He was destroying everything in bundesliga and now he is doing the same in PL below top 6. Thats his peak. 

Both Bayern and City took heavy Ls in CL against big and small teams.

This has nothing to do with luck. He is plain and simple shite against determined teams.

Why? Because he wants to BUY to create similar team that he created in barca. And his loaded team is too much for small weak teams, but they cant compete against the best. They mentaly struggle because they were all bought in last two seasons and dont give a shit about City realy. I have seen warrior like performances from smaller teams, this city one is bunch of spoiled lads who have all the talent in the world, but dont know the grit and determination. And thats on Pep. Because he was buying everything instead of building a team slowly. 

If Sane underperforms, he just drops him. If he Otamendi underperforms, he just spends another 50 on new CB. But result is you get mercenaries who dont care. If he developed Otamendi and trusted him, maybe he would by now be a reliable CB unlike Laporte etc. If he played Sane as much as possible, he would return by giving everything he can. But Pep rotates all the time, many times unneccesary, and thus doesnt have 11 regulars who are absolute must to win CL. Real, Barca everyone had undisputed 11. With Pep you never know who will be two CBs and who will be two main wingers or 3 midfielders. 

We were lucky back then with Drogba and others because that 11 gave it all for this club. 

Nowdays we are buying players that dont give a shit. Same with United. Thats why we suck. They dont offer that extra. United and we have seriously bad boards, thats why even with the spending we dont get near City or Psg.

Liverpool is the only english team that has proper project. And thats because they built their team gradualy. When they bought Salah or Dijk, they wanted those two and those two only. And they played them until they completely fit in the squad. They wont rotate them every week, they wont bench them during bad form. They make them undisputed starters and rely on them 100%. 

I remember Mou wanted only Drogba and we played him through thick and thin until he was greatest striker in blue. When we bought Morata, we bought him because we needed a striker. Once he turned shite, we dropped him and vice versa nowdays he couldnt give two shits about us. 

Player loyalty is still the most important value in football. And thats the difference between Pep and Klopp.

When Barca signed De Jong, you know they want to make destiny with them. Same was with Pool when they bought Dijk. They went over everything to get that CB. When City buys a player, its just another toy for Pep who will be dumped the moment they find a new one. It was the same when we got Morata.

We need to INVEST in the players, not just buy them. 

[Blue Armour 4,158]

36 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

He is good but his teams have peak at average teams. He was destroying everything in bundesliga and now he is doing the same in PL below top 6. Thats his peak. 

Both Bayern and City took heavy Ls in CL against big and small teams.

This has nothing to do with luck. He is plain and simple shite against determined teams.

Why? Because he wants to BUY to create similar team that he created in barca. And his loaded team is too much for small weak teams, but they cant compete against the best. They mentaly struggle because they were all bought in last two seasons and dont give a shit about City realy. I have seen warrior like performances from smaller teams, this city one is bunch of spoiled lads who have all the talent in the world, but dont know the grit and determination. And thats on Pep. Because he was buying everything instead of building a team slowly. 

If Sane underperforms, he just drops him. If he Otamendi underperforms, he just spends another 50 on new CB. But result is you get mercenaries who dont care. If he developed Otamendi and trusted him, maybe he would by now be a reliable CB unlike Laporte etc. If he played Sane as much as possible, he would return by giving everything he can. But Pep rotates all the time, many times unneccesary, and thus doesnt have 11 regulars who are absolute must to win CL. Real, Barca everyone had undisputed 11. With Pep you never know who will be two CBs and who will be two main wingers or 3 midfielders. 

We were lucky back then with Drogba and others because that 11 gave it all for this club. 

Nowdays we are buying players that dont give a shit. Same with United. Thats why we suck. They dont offer that extra. United and we have seriously bad boards, thats why even with the spending we dont get near City or Psg.

Liverpool is the only english team that has proper project. And thats because they built their team gradualy. When they bought Salah or Dijk, they wanted those two and those two only. And they played them until they completely fit in the squad. They wont rotate them every week, they wont bench them during bad form. They make them undisputed starters and rely on them 100%. 

I remember Mou wanted only Drogba and we played him through thick and thin until he was greatest striker in blue. When we bought Morata, we bought him because we needed a striker. Once he turned shite, we dropped him and vice versa nowdays he couldnt give two shits about us. 

Player loyalty is still the most important value in football. And thats the difference between Pep and Klopp.

When Barca signed De Jong, you know they want to make destiny with them. Same was with Pool when they bought Dijk. They went over everything to get that CB. When City buys a player, its just another toy for Pep who will be dumped the moment they find a new one. It was the same when we got Morata.

We need to INVEST in the players, not just buy them. 

Hope we buy that elusive 'Director of Football' before we spend another cent on a player.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

28 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Hope we buy that elusive 'Director of Football' before we spend another cent on a player.

Yeah, that should be priority.

Marina knows finances, we became fully self-sustainable club during her time with all the sponsorships, but she doesnt have enough knowledge regarding football projects IMO. Wish we could get someone in the mould of Marotta, Monchi. Because United has DoF, but a clueless one. So we better get a proper one to make the club great again.

Now that we are set to play attacking football (under Sarri or anyone else), we need DoF more than ever. Just two summers where we buy players that actualy fit the team would massive improvement for us.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

1 hour ago, Mana said:

I'm sorry, but it's you that's rewriting Klopp's first season.

Let's remind ourselves.

Klopp took over Liverpool near mid-season. Had zero time to settle, worse than Sarri.

Yes, Klopp couldn't overturn Rodgers' damage and finished 8th with some ridiculous defeats.

Yes, Klopp took them to a League Cup and Europa League final(s) for the first time in years and lost both.

But despite all of that, went to Stamford Bridge and got Liverpool's first win there since 2011.

Beat City 4-1 at the Etihad, and beat City again 3-0 at Anfield.

A massive 6-0 away victory over Villa.

Smashed Everton 4-0.

These were signs.

What did Sarri do? Narrow home victories against Arsenal and City? Unconvincing home win against Spuds in the league?

Indeed. Dont forget their run to europa league final either. Won against United, Villareal and Dortmund. Against Dortmund, they were 3:1 down at anfield, but managed to overturn it to 4:3.

The main reason they were 8th was because Klopp played his football against anyone. They played city, but they went there with attacking philosophy. And they won both times. Sometimes they also lost to terrible teams because of that. But they sticked with their plan. They developed. Also later seasons, he had realy good games against big teams. Their players had strong mentality and character in all those games. They did suffer some realy bad defeats against smaller sides though and that pissed many many fans, calling for his head.

What is Sarri doing? Goes to park the bus against Liverpool. We went all out against City and we got trashed 6:0. Do that 3-4 times more and eventualy we will learn from mistakes and overcome them. If we dont, then Sarri is clearly not the manager for us.

What we should be doing is playing attacking football (not all out attack, nor park the bus, but balanced attacking football) in every match. And then develop it. There will be defeats, but we will learn and evolve. Parking the bus is getting us nowhere near "Sarriball". Its just temporary solution to avoid big defeat at anfield.