Callum Hudson-Odoi

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:30, MUTU said:

That's why I said option 3 doesn't make sense for CHO. Option 3 realistically gets Bayern a backup player for free, nothing more nothing less. Options 1 and 2 are the ones that best help CHO fulfill his potential. Plus let's forget he's just 18... he needs to settle his future now, not in 6 months time or 1.5 years time.

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Well, you waited for Lewandowski and Lewandowski waited for you for 18 months, why is it different now?

Regardless if Bayern or CHO like it, he's needed right now and he plays for us.  There are a number of things that I personally would like, right now.  But, it doesn't work that way.  Lots of players would like a move that they can't have right now, I don't see why CHO is an exception to that.  We want Pulisic.  Pulisic wants us.  But, Dortmund need him right now, so he's staying there for the next 6 months.

If he really wants Bayern, and Bayern really want him, what's another 6 months for both parties.

 

[kc_blue 265]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:30, MUTU said:

That's why I said option 3 doesn't make sense for CHO. Option 3 realistically gets Bayern a backup player for free, nothing more nothing less. Options 1 and 2 are the ones that best help CHO fulfill his potential. Plus let's forget he's just 18... he needs to settle his future now, not in 6 months time or 1.5 years time.

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Agreed that option 3 makes no sense.  In my mind there's 3 options. 

1. he stays here and signs a new contract.

2. he signs with Bayern

3. he signs with another team

 

I thought Dortmund and Leipzig have expressed interest in him.  His options are not necessarily binary between Chelsea or Bayern.

 

I think the best option for him is to get his head and play out the season here.  At that point he has a better idea of what he feels his path to the first team here is.  Bayern will still be there this summer.  I said earlier that for the rest of the season I felt he would make a bigger impact here then if he went to Bayern because of the issue of being acclimated here and not having to adjust in his personal life and new team.  

[MUTU 37]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:38, Sideshow Luiz said:

Well, you waited for Lewandowski and Lewandowski waited for you for 18 months, why is it different now?

Regardless if Bayern or CHO like it, he's needed right now and he plays for us.  There are a number of things that I personally would like, right now.  But, it doesn't work that way.  Lots of players would like a move that they can't have right now, I don't see why CHO is an exception to that.  We want Pulisic.  Pulisic wants us.  But, Dortmund need him right now, so he's staying there for the next 6 months.

If he really wants Bayern, and Bayern really want him, what's another 6 months for both parties.

 

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You say he's needed right now but neither Bayern nor CHO completely believe that. You guys have been saying he deserved to play more than he actually did, and that was when he hadn't flirted with a move.

As I said in my previous post, this can be arranged only if Chelsea are held financially liable if CHO doesn't get played a minimum amount of matches for which he's fit and not suspended.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:38, MUTU said:

The only way I see a summer move working is that the contract, signed now, would stipulate minimum playing time requirements for CHO, which if not satisfies results in Chelsea having to pay up. You get him till the end of the season while CHO and Bayern can rest in the knowledge that Chelsea won't simply let him rot.

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That doesn't make any sense.  He has 18 months left on his contract.  How is he available now, but not in the summer?  And how do we have to pay up if he doesn't get any game time?  If he werne't needed, and we were just trying to milk more money out of you, that would be one thing, but he's actually needed right now.  We have 4 wingers and 2 of them are injured.  

What exactly is stopping us from not selling him and playing him as much as the manager feels like, like any other player?  If he still wants to go in the summer, and you still want him, what's the issue?

[kc_blue 265]

  Quote

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:38, MUTU said:

The only way I see a summer move working is that the contract, signed now, would stipulate minimum playing time requirements for CHO, which if not satisfies results in Chelsea having to pay up. You get him till the end of the season while CHO and Bayern can rest in the knowledge that Chelsea won't simply let him rot.

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Frankly it sounds like with these conditions that you are trying to strong arm us into a sale on your conditions.  He has a contract good for another 18 months.  The fact is it doesn't suit us to sell him now.  In the summer that may change.  If you are interested in the summer then the clubs can talk.  If you have to sign him now, well, I'm not the club buy I'd tell you to take a hike.

[Jype 6,398]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:42, MUTU said:

As I said in my previous post, this can be arranged only if Chelsea are held financially liable if CHO doesn't get played a minimum amount of matches for which he's fit and not suspended.

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That's not how any of it works though. For example Pulisic doesn't have any "minimum amount of matches" clause from now till the end of the season, Dortmund are free to do whatever the hell they want with him till he actually joins Chelsea in the summer. And even that's with him already being under contract with Chelsea and merely on loan at Dortmund, but agreeing to a deal that gives Dortmund more freedom was the only way to make the deal happen.

The arrogance of Bayern really is unrivaled, even the fans think everyone else will just bend over and accept whatever conditions the mighty Bayern wish to happen with a transfer.

[MUTU 37]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:43, Sideshow Luiz said:

That doesn't make any sense.  He has 18 months left on his contract.  How is he available now, but not in the summer?  And how do we have to pay up if he doesn't get any game time?  If he werne't needed, and we were just trying to milk more money out of you, that would be one thing, but he's actually needed right now.  We have 4 wingers and 2 of them are injured.  

What exactly is stopping us from not selling him and playing him as much as the manager feels like, like any other player?  If he still wants to go in the summer, and you still want him, what's the issue?

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The issue is the risk that CHO and Bayern see if they agree to sign a contract for summer, that Chelsea would just throw him in the stands and he'd never see the pitch again, basically what he's done for most of this season. If you want to keep him for 6 more months on the basis of 'needing him', then you should put your money where your mouth (when I say 'your' I obviously mean Chelsea) is and be held financially liable if he's not played purely for tactical reasons. It's unfair on CHO and Bayern having to wait 6 months to unite on the basis of Chelsea needing him but then not actually playing him. If Chelsea are serious about wanting to play him, then Chelsea should consider this option.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:42, MUTU said:

You say he's needed right now but neither Bayern nor CHO completely believe that. You guys have been saying he deserved to play more than he actually did, and that was when he hadn't flirted with a move.

As I said in my previous post, this can be arranged only if Chelsea are held financially liable if CHO doesn't get played a minimum amount of matches for which he's fit and not suspended.

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It doesn't matter whether Bayern or CHO believe it.  Both parties can believe whatever they want.

He's got 18 months left on his contract and if we don't feel like we can sell him this winter, then we don't have to.  If Bayern and CHO find this unacceptable, they are welcome to work out a deal where they buy us a replacement up front.  Preferably English as that's worth quite a bit to us.  How about Sancho?

Not selling him this winter can be absolutely arranged without any kind of financial liability.  In fact, it's currently what is happening right now.  

[MUTU 37]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:47, Jype said:

That's not how any of it works though. For example Pulisic doesn't have any "minimum amount of matches" clause from now till the end of the season, Dortmund are free to do whatever the hell they want with him till he actually joins Chelsea in the summer.

The arrogance of Bayern really is unrivaled, even the fans think everyone else will just bend over and accept whatever the mighty Bayern wish to happen.

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It's irrelevant comparing Pulisic to CHO. Pulisic has already proven himself and CHO has only really started getting playing time after flirting with a move.

 

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:46, kc_blue said:

Frankly it sounds like with these conditions that you are trying to strong arm us into a sale on your conditions.  He has a contract good for another 18 months.  The fact is it doesn't suit us to sell him now.  In the summer that may change.  If you are interested in the summer then the clubs can talk.  If you have to sign him now, well, I'm not the club buy I'd tell you to take a hike.

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Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him.

[kc_blue 265]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:51, MUTU said:

Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him.

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I don't think there's any dishonesty in their intentions.  Their intentions are not to sell.  If that changes in the summer so be it.

[Vesper 29,448]

He can be disgruntled in the stands next to Donkeywater for the next year and a half. I dont want him near the pitch. I now trust him as far as I can spit into the Stockholm winter wind.

[MUTU 37]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:51, Sideshow Luiz said:

It doesn't matter whether Bayern or CHO believe it.  Both parties can believe whatever they want.

He's got 18 months left on his contract and if we don't feel like we can sell him this winter, then we don't have to.  If Bayern and CHO find this unacceptable, they are welcome to work out a deal where they buy us a replacement up front.  Preferably English as that's worth quite a bit to us.  How about Sancho?

Not selling him this winter can be absolutely arranged without any kind of financial liability.  In fact, it's currently what is happening right now.  

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You can rest assured that this is the same as option 1 (i.e. Bayern do not get CHO).

Here's why:

- If he does well, Bayern would be priced out
- If he doesn't, well, why would Bayern still want him?
- If he does OKish, Bayern MIGHT come with a fresh bid, but it'd definitely be considerably lower than 39M euro, and you guys will just refuse it.

 

Realistically, I don't see a contract being signed next summer with Bayern an option.

[kc_blue 265]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:51, MUTU said:

Chelsea not wanting to accept these conditions would be an indication of dishonesty in their intentions, in which case if I was Bayern I'd pull out of negotiations immediately. Of course that suits no one really at this point... you'll get to keep a disgruntled player while we end up without him.

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You seem to be working from the believe that the club is open to negotiations now.  You seem to be saying they are agreeing a deal now for a summer move.  That's not at all what I'm proposing.  I'm saying they should keep CHO, who has a contract for another 18 months, and play him the rest of the season.  If come summer we are open to selling then we can negotiate a deal then, not now.

[petre.ispirescu 4,928]

Don't want to ruin the 'who is tapping who' debate, but to answer the German fella - listen mate it's my opinion only, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know I'm not an expert otherwise I'd work for some scouting network, but there is something special about Hudson-Odoi, you see wingers every now and then like I don't know, Ben Arfa, Depay? and there is tons of other examples, bags of potential, some flicks etc. but still there is something telling you they won't cut it. Well it does not apply with young Callum I can tell you the kid is a superstar in the making and the day he leaves it is going to be a sad day for me and a failure from the club IMO. 

He's not bigger than the club and when the club does not challenge for the title mid season, nor the Champions League and his competition is Willian and Pedro, than the kid must be given a regular spot and see what he's all about until summer. What if this unrests Willian and Pedro mid season? Well nobody gives a damn about them and I'd bite my hand if they are still here come August. 

 

[Vesper 29,448]

This shit is surely spilling over into Hazard's head. Barella's too, per new reports.

[Jype 6,398]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:48, MUTU said:

 It's unfair on CHO and Bayern having to wait 6 months to unite on the basis of Chelsea needing him but then not actually playing him. If Chelsea are serious about wanting to play him, then Chelsea should consider this option.

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How the fuck is it "unfair" that a player is expected to continue representing the club where he is under contract with?

 

[Superblue 6,372]

I'm not going to get involved in anymore arguing over how Bayern are interpreted but I think you'll find that quite a lot of non Bayern fans have the same viewpoint whether you want to admit it or not.

My feeling is that CHO isn't yet good enough to play for Bayern. He has more than enough potential to become a star but I honestly don't understand the lure for him to go to Bayern given the options they already have in the wide areas (even once Robben and Ribery have left) and it's very possible they'll look to replace those two players with a real top winger in the summer. This would leave 3 or 4 players fighting for the other spot. 

If he's been promised a certain amount of game time by Bayern I think that it's also a silly move for him. He'll be under immense pressure given the price tag and the hype around him rather than being given the chance to develop and learn he'll be expected to perform immediately which I'm not sure if he's yet ready for that level of expectation from a team expected to win everything domestically and challenge deep in Europe.

With the greatest respect if this was a team like Leipzig or Leverkusen the next level down I think it would be a good move for him to learn his trade and develop at a slower rate without the number of eyes and expectation on him immediately. But at present I struggle to see Bayern being a better option than Chelsea where he is on the cusp of playing regularly already at the age of 18. We too have two ageing wide players and the other a superstar likely to leave in the summer. The opportunity I believe is here for him if he wants/wanted it.

[MUTU 37]

  On 09/01/2019 at 21:58, kc_blue said:

You seem to be working from the believe that the club is open to negotiations now.  You seem to be saying they are agreeing a deal now for a summer move.  That's not at all what I'm proposing.  I'm saying they should keep CHO, who has a contract for another 18 months, and play him the rest of the season.  If come summer we are open to selling then we can negotiate a deal then, not now.

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Gotcha, I think you'll find your answer here then: