Mason Mount

[DH1988 1,193]

24 minutes ago, coolhead23 said:

I put as one is Overhyped and other is Under Rated! 

I don't see Pogba as overhyped, he is what he is, a wildly inconsistent unprofessional footballer with a bad attitude - All of which is down to him, nothing else. I think of it as the same lines as Hazard, if Hazard had the mentality and attitude of Messi/Ronaldo, he'd of bagged a ton more goals, and in no way am I saying Hazard downed tools etc. what I am simply saying is that its all down to attitude. I think everybody recognises that Pogba's problem has and always will be his attitude, thats why he will never be considered a great player and always the player 'that could be'. Anyway, twittersphere reporting PSG will offer him £500pw, so he'll keep playing majestically for a time until it doesn't suit him to.

..And I also don't see Mount as underrated now, he was before, but ultimately I think he is now at the right level of praise by pundits and such. 

[coolhead23 1,146]

14 minutes ago, DH1988 said:

I don't see Pogba as overhyped, he is what he is, a wildly inconsistent unprofessional footballer with a bad attitude - All of which is down to him, nothing else. I think of it as the same lines as Hazard, if Hazard had the mentality and attitude of Messi/Ronaldo, he'd of bagged a ton more goals, and in no way am I saying Hazard downed tools etc. what I am simply saying is that its all down to attitude. I think everybody recognises that Pogba's problem has and always will be his attitude, thats why he will never be considered a great player and always the player 'that could be'. Anyway, twittersphere reporting PSG will offer him £500pw, so he'll keep playing majestically for a time until it doesn't suit him to.

..And I also don't see Mount as underrated now, he was before, but ultimately I think he is now at the right level of praise by pundits and such. 

Pogba is good, he has the talent but a world class ... I dont think so! 

U urself said he is inconsistent unprofessional footballer ... so how can he be a world class and inconsistent at the same time. There has been talks of he moving here and there but in actual United has been the only big contract ... maybe the only one. 

And yes, Mount is still underrated ... by lot of fans (most of are Chelsea fans) 

[Jype 6,398]

40 minutes ago, DH1988 said:

I think of it as the same lines as Hazard, if Hazard had the mentality and attitude of Messi/Ronaldo, he'd of bagged a ton more goals, and in no way am I saying Hazard downed tools etc. what I am simply saying is that its all down to attitude.

Yep. Hazard had all the talent in the world to be a Ballon d'Or winner but if I recall correctly he even admitted in an interview that he doesn't care about being the best in the world and just wants to enjoy his football. In a way that relaxed attitude was what made Hazard tick and he played his best football when he was happy with life in general, but at the same time one can't help but wonder what a player with his natural talent would've been like if he had an elite mentality to go with it.

Hazard definitely has an unprofessional streak in him, given how much he likes his burgers and how unfit he's returned from his holidays a bunch of times, but once he found his happy place he was still a consistent world class performer. On the pitch Hazard always gives it everything he has but off the pitch his lifestyle is maybe not the best out there, which is totally fine and the Chelsea fans still love him dearly but he could have been much better too if he had that extra bit of motivation and drive. Pogba on the other hand seems the opposite, he always keeps himself fit and probably trains well too but on the pitch when things aren't working out for him he starts sulking.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Jype

[Clockwork 1,762]

3 hours ago, DH1988 said:

I don't see Pogba as overhyped, he is what he is, a wildly inconsistent unprofessional footballer with a bad attitude - All of which is down to him, nothing else. I think of it as the same lines as Hazard, if Hazard had the mentality and attitude of Messi/Ronaldo, he'd of bagged a ton more goals, and in no way am I saying Hazard downed tools etc. what I am simply saying is that its all down to attitude. I think everybody recognises that Pogba's problem has and always will be his attitude, thats why he will never be considered a great player and always the player 'that could be'. Anyway, twittersphere reporting PSG will offer him £500pw, so he'll keep playing majestically for a time until it doesn't suit him to.

..And I also don't see Mount as underrated now, he was before, but ultimately I think he is now at the right level of praise by pundits and such. 

There has never been goal scorers like Messi and Ronaldo, there dominance is unparalleled. Hazard best trait is dribbling, and Messi is better than him at that. Messi has better vision, creativity, passing, finishing, and just about everything. 
 

Ronaldo is on another level athletically, great finisher, and moves better than anyone off the ball.

They are superior to Hazard; Eden is a great talent in his own right but he can only be himself. Messi was also criticized for his poor diet, but he smartly changed as he got older. And I also criticize Hazard for that he needs to change his off-season regiment, because it is shortening his career. 
 

it is hard to distinguish between mentality and ability. For example Ronaldo work ethic is legendary, almost robotic. But many would also criticize Ronaldo for lack of skills on the ball. So basically his mentality inhibited some areas of his football.

Same with Hazard his mentality got him where he is at became skillful and fun player due to that. 
 

 

[Clockwork 1,762]

3 hours ago, Jype said:

Yep. Hazard had all the talent in the world to be a Ballon d'Or winner but if I recall correctly he even admitted in an interview that he doesn't care about being the best in the world and just wants to enjoy his football. In a way that relaxed attitude was what made Hazard tick and he played his best football when he was happy with life in general, but at the same time one can't help but wonder what a player with his natural talent would've been like if he had an elite mentality to go with it.

Hazard definitely has an unprofessional streak in him, given how much he likes his burgers and how unfit he's returned from his holidays a bunch of times, but once he found his happy place he was still a consistent world class performer. On the pitch Hazard always gives it everything he has but off the pitch his lifestyle is maybe not the best out there, which is totally fine and the Chelsea fans still love him dearly but he could have been much better too if he had that extra bit of motivation and drive. Pogba on the other hand seems the opposite, he always keeps himself fit and probably trains well too but on the pitch when things aren't working out for him he starts sulking.

Wrong as usual, Hazard was saying he cannot be the goal scorer some want him to be. He said he can only be himself and focus on winning games. Which is correct.

Hazard is not this unprofessional you make him out to be; he was family man, who did everything right during the season. 
 

 

 

 

[Jype 6,398]

30 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Hazard is not this unprofessional you make him out to be; he was family man, who did everything right during the season. 

... and if you read what I said at all, I didn't disagree with any of that.

I did say that once he got going he was a consistent world class performer, but it was very obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes that during his holidays he clearly let himself go a little bit and most years when he got back for pre-season you couldn't really have guessed him to be a top class athlete.

I for one didn't have the slightest of problem with that because I knew it was only temporary and that sooner rather than later he'd always be back to his very best, but even you can't claim that coming back from holidays clearly overweight year after year is a sign of model professionalism. Of course players are free to do with their holidays what they damn well please and Hazard chose to enjoy his time off by eating all the things he couldn't during the course of the season. I definitely understand the reasoning behind it, because players are after all only human and it must be SO difficult to live such disciplined life style that most top athletes do but if Hazard did that, he could have been an even better player.

Most top players already start some physical training by themselves nearing the end of the holidays so that it's easier for them to get back to business when pre-season starts, but I'm sure Hazard enjoyed life to the fullest till the very last second of his time off, which again I'm not saying was wrong but also not very professional of him. I am just guessing but maybe his lifestyle choices have got something to do with him being injured so much once he started to get older, because it's often said the older the players get the better care they have to take of their bodies to maintain their peak physical level.

 

46 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

Wrong as usual, Hazard was saying he cannot be the goal scorer some want him to be. He said he can only be himself and focus on winning games. Which is correct.

As for this point:

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/04/11/eden-hazard-claims-he-doesnt-care-about-winning-ballon-dor-he-names-future-contenders

Speaking about future winners of the award, the Belgian declared: “In the future, I think Neymar is quite the same age as me, Mbappe is very young, he can be the future Ballon d’Or for many years. But the English generation is very good as well."

But, when asked if he considered himself a contender, Hazard was less enthused, proclaiming: “I don’t care about this. I just wanna give my everything on the pitch, if I win, I’ll be very happy. If not, it’s not a problem. I’ll give everything for the club, and we’ll see.”

 

Compare that mentality to the likes of Ronaldo who are very, very sore losers and always do everything they can to win and it's a stark contrast. Again I'm not saying there's something wrong with being a more laid-back person who cares most about his own happiness and that winning in football is not his main goal in life, but what I am saying is that with a better mentality he could have been an even better player. 

Hazard is definitely in my top5 all-time favorite players and in a way I'm more than happy that he is like he is, because if he had a Ronaldo-type mentality wouldn't even have stayed at Chelsea anywhere close as long as he did. He'd have been in the team for a few years at most and then demanded a transfer when the team weren't delivering consistent league titles and UCL title challenges.

[Clockwork 1,762]

That is the typical quotes you get from athletes about how individual accolades is not that important, what is important is team goals/ accomplishment.
 

Ronaldo is a more selfish player obviously, and it fit his strengths because virtually all of Ronaldo best traits is scoring goals. Hazard also plays to his strength, he cannot be selfish player like Ronaldo. Because he doesn’t have Ronaldo off the ball ability, poaching, shooting, heading, finishing, etc. 

All I am saying these what if scenarios don’t work, it is not FIFA where you could raise the attributes to 99. These attributes are correlated, if one was higher it will likely result lower on another attributes.

[OneMoSalah 8,611]

20 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I didn't say a word about Mount. I just shared stats. 

Am I shitting on Christensen if I say Chalobah scored already for Chelsea in 2nd game or Tomori last season also early but he still didn't? No this is just interesting observation. 

Btw I don't rate Pogba at all. Wouldn't take him for free. 

Away and talk shite. You may not have said “a word about Mount” but you 100% shared that stats for a specific reason or why the fuck else would you have? I mean cmon, do you think we are all stupid 🤣?

Also considering the amount of posts you have done complaining about Mount and open play assists since he started playing under Frank, turning around and saying that posting that stat was only a “interesting observation” just makes you look very stupid.

Unless your a United fan who loves Pogba and on the wrong forum? 

[Clockwork 1,762]

I don’t think it is controversial to say Pogba is a better player than Mount, I think the English media are way too down on Pogba. United is a shit show, I think if he was at City or somewhere else he would be rated better.

Mount has only two seasons at top level experiences, he has a lot to prove still. I am fine with where he is at so far in his career. We will see if he has another gear. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Clockwork

[YorkshireBlue 2,823]

26 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

I don’t think it is controversial to say Pogba is a better player than Mount, I think the English media are way too down on Pogba. United is a shit show, I think if he was at City or somewhere else he would be rated better.

Mount has only two seasons at top level experiences, he has a lot to prove still. I am fine with where he is at so far in his career. We will see if he has another gear. 

I dont think mount has alot to prove. He just needs more experience.

[Vesper 27,283]

2 hours ago, Clockwork said:

I don’t think it is controversial to say Pogba is a better player than Mount, I think the English media are way too down on Pogba. United is a shit show, I think if he was at City or somewhere else he would be rated better.

Mount has only two seasons at top level experiences, he has a lot to prove still. I am fine with where he is at so far in his career. We will see if he has another gear. 

not anymore I truly fear

thank fuck they are held back somewhat by Ole and a lack of a class DMF, lack of depth at CF (as Cavani is too old to play every game or even most, and they want to ship Martial out) and not a lot of depth at CMF (Fred is meh, van de Beek a bust so far)

if they added Dušan Vlahović or Dominic Calvert-Lewin at CF

and any of these DMFs 

Declan Rice 
Aurélien Tchouaméni
Eduardo Camavinga (although I think they would still try and ad a cruncher and use Camavinga more as a box to box, this sorting them at CMF)
Rúben Neves  
Kalvin Phillips   
Tomas Soucek    
Boubacar Kamara 
Wilfred Ndidi   

they are simply a great manager away from being a top 5 or 6 club in world level atm, and may be there even with Ole at the wheel

 

[DH1988 1,193]

A yikes performance today, he is so frustrating and I’m concerned he will just be more favoured as a work horse, rather than for meaningful end product.

 

[Warning_Hazard 156]

17 minutes ago, DH1988 said:

A yikes performance today, he is so frustrating and I’m concerned he will just be more favoured as a work horse, rather than for meaningful end product.

 

He was ok today, Great awareness to zip it into RJ for the goal

TT said everyone wasnt very sharp, They havent had much rest to be fair

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

4 hours ago, Warning_Hazard said:

He was ok today, Great awareness to zip it into RJ for the goal

TT said everyone wasnt very sharp, They havent had much rest to be fair

Let's be realistic. That wasn't great awareness. It was a blindingly obvious pass that we all saw before the ball even reached Mason and I'm sure he was knew it was on at least as quickly as we did. Credit where it's due but let's not over egg it.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

4 hours ago, Warning_Hazard said:

TT said everyone wasnt very sharp, They havent had much rest to be fair

I'm glad the manager is talking sense. Of course this isn't news because he always does. I was very surprised at the gushing praise heaped on our performance by the Match of The Day pundits so I came here looking for some more sober judgements. There are a few of these of course but I do think that some people are more pleased about what they saw today than TT was.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

I fear we might have another Willian situation with Mount long term, his work rate is undisputed but he definitely leaves you wondering would a better quality player produce more in his place? Against smaller teams I will definitely start Ziyech or Werner they bring more to the attacking table than Mount. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

2 minutes ago, Vybz Kartel said:

I fear we might have another Willian situation with Mount long term, his work rate is undisputed but he definitely leaves you wondering would a better quality player produce more in his place? Against smaller teams I will definitely start Ziyech or Werner they bring more to the attacking table than Mount. 

Yes, I'm afraid Mason hasn't shaken off off the nearly man tag he acquired in my assessment. I can't see TT wanting to be without Mason's workrate as long as he is working with his current squad. Delivering that, as well as more precision in key moments, is a very high bar but that's an important aspect of what TT needs now.

[Stats 6,980]

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Let's be realistic. That wasn't great awareness. It was a blindingly obvious pass that we all saw before the ball even reached Mason and I'm sure he was knew it was on at least as quickly as we did. Credit where it's due but let's not over egg it.

Well the ball for Lukaku was good awareness and should have been another assist, however Leno made a great save.