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19. Mason Mount


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3 hours ago, different level said:

People said it was Lamps playing favourites, but it looks like Mason is proving them wrong and is on the verge of becoming a top player just like his mentor.

Would he be playing for us right now if it wasn't for Frank? Doubtful, probably wasted out on loan until somebody snapped him up. For all the things Frank did wrong (and we could list a lot), he got this one right.

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It is 2020 and people still think Barkley will become good...

Scored a hattrick tonight and made an assist for Vitesse in their Europa League playoff match against Ado Den Haag. What a season this lad is having. I think that is double figures for both goals and

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3 minutes ago, manpe said:

Would he be playing for us right now if it wasn't for Frank? Doubtful, probably wasted out on loan until somebody snapped him up. For all the things Frank did wrong (and we could list a lot), he got this one right.

Whether he'd have made himself an untouchable is a different question but i'm certain he would have found a way in under Sarri, he'd have probably took Barkley's role of either starting and getting replaced by Kova on the hour or being a sub and replacing him at the same stage.

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6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Whether he'd have made himself an untouchable is a different question but i'm certain he would have found a way in under Sarri, he'd have probably took Barkley's role of either starting and getting replaced by Kova on the hour or being a sub and replacing him at the same stage.

Also doubt it. Sarri was so stubborn that he would have played the same players until retirement, by that time Mount would have been long gone.

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17 minutes ago, manpe said:

Also doubt it. Sarri was so stubborn that he would have played the same players until retirement, by that time Mount would have been long gone.

I don't agree, Hudson Odoi and Loftus Cheek forced their way in, maybe belatedly but they still did.

Furthermore I think Mount's mentality sets him up as an exception who would have made it though under any manager, even Mourinho.

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14 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I don't agree, Hudson Odoi and Loftus Cheek forced their way in, maybe belatedly but they still did.

Furthermore I think Mount's mentality sets him up as an exception who would have made it though under any manager, even Mourinho.

Inclined to agree.

Sarri was asked about the loanees towards the end of his season and he was interested in 2-3 players but didn't specify who.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-che-transfers-idUKKCN1SE1FR

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4 minutes ago, Jas said:

Inclined to agree.

Sarri was asked about the loanees towards the end of his season and he was interested in 2-3 players but didn't specify who.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-england-che-transfers-idUKKCN1SE1FR

I'm guessing Mount and James were shoe in's, not sure about the 3rd, possibly Tomori. I think he would have come to a similar conclusion with Tammy as to what Tuchel did.

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Pretty sure Zola said something similar too that they were planning to bring some back.

Mount is almost a certainty, especially with RLC getting crocked at the end of the season. 

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5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'm guessing Mount and James were shoe in's, not sure about the 3rd, possibly Tomori. I think he would have come to a similar conclusion with Tammy as to what Tuchel did.

Very possible though it could have been Tammy because if Higuain wasn't being resigned, we would have only been left with Giroud. So you almost would have been forced to bring back Tammy or Bats.

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15 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Very possible though it could have been Tammy because if Higuain wasn't being resigned, we would have only been left with Giroud. So you almost would have been forced to bring back Tammy or Bats.

I think it's safe to assume Higuain would have stayed another year under Sarri. I wasn't as against it as most and i actually felt there were times last season where we could have done with his movement to stretch deep defenses (especially around winter time when so many fodder sides kept shutting us out comfortably).

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Should be taken away from corners. Just pure mathematics. 

Mount 126 corners 3 goals 

Chilwell 26 corners 1 goal 

James 26 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech 19 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech is known as one of the best set piece takers in Europe yet we didn't gave him a chance to shine. 

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2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Should be taken away from corners. Just pure mathematics. 

Mount 126 corners 3 goals 

Chilwell 26 corners 1 goal 

James 26 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech 19 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech is known as one of the best set piece takers in Europe yet we didn't gave him a chance to shine. 

Yup his corners were terrible today once more . 

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8 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Should be taken away from corners. Just pure mathematics. 

Mount 126 corners 3 goals 

Chilwell 26 corners 1 goal 

James 26 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech 19 corners 1 goal 

Ziyech is known as one of the best set piece takers in Europe yet we didn't gave him a chance to shine. 

Especially considering the fact that we have Zouma in our team that is probably the best player in the world when it comes to scoring goals from set pieces like corner kicks or indirect free kicks. 

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The "anti-mount" brigade at it again, it's becoming pathetic guys...  😅

His corners versus Arsenal were bad, true, but he's usually a good corner shooter, moving on.

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16 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

The "anti-mount" brigade at it again, it's becoming pathetic guys...  😅

His corners versus Arsenal were bad, true, but he's usually a good corner shooter, moving on.

He is a great propect and on his ways to world class but his corners have always been average at best. Not that he can't work on them,he surely will improve but in the last 2 seasons his record from corners is kinda poor.

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2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

He is a great propect and on his ways to world class but his corners have always been average at best. Not that he can't work on them,he surely will improve but in the last 2 seasons his record from corners is kinda poor.

Care to provide any data to back-up your claim, and to specify what you mean by poor record from corners?

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2 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

Care to provide any data to back-up your claim, and to specify what you mean by poor record from corners?

just look above. 126 corners lead to just 3 goals. that is a poor return.

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5 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

just look above. 126 corners lead to just 3 goals. that is a poor return.

Where's the back up for that, and what parameters does it factor in? @NikkiCFC could you please provide your source?

The corners-to-goal is also pretty limited to assess a corner's quality. Having a Zouma vs a Werner as the receiver could give you a completely different outcome without changing anything on the delivery's quality. I could also argue that the sample size for the other shooters is not big enough to draw any conclusions.

Speed of the corner, aera of destination would provide a better basis imo. Can the shooter kick the ball consistently and put it in the danger aera consistently? Not even sure this kind of metrics are currently available.

For me, just looks like the anti-mount brigade is trying to find new things to pin on Mount. No surprise it's Nikki, you and killer.. His last two corners against Arsenal were bad; no denying, but you guys are now clutching at straws to try and make him look like a bad corner shooter, that's ridiculous.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Simon1991 said:

Where's the back up for that, and what parameters does it factor in? @NikkiCFC could you please provide your source?

The corners-to-goal is also pretty limited to assess a corner's quality. Having a Zouma vs a Werner as the receiver could give you a completely different outcome without changing anything on the delivery's quality. I could also argue that the sample size for the other shooters is not big enough to draw any conclusions.

Speed of the corner, aera of destination would provide a better basis imo. Can the shooter kick the ball consistently and put it in the danger aera consistently? Not even sure this kind of metrics are currently available.

For me, just looks like the anti-mount brigade is trying to find new things to pin on Mount. No surprise it's Nikki, you and killer.. His last two corners against Arsenal were bad; no denying, but you guys are now clutching at straws to try and make him look like a bad corner shooter, that's ridiculous.

 

 

I am not anti-Mount. he is brilliant and clearly a talisman for the team but you dont need to have any of your metrics that are not even measured consistently to see that he is not a good corner taker. For example, his just fail to clear the first man very often or land in the hands of the goalkeeper just rewatch the matches you will see.

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Posted (edited)

Tbf the corner stats are difficult to gauge the accuracy from because whilst it indicates poor balls in it also indicates our weakness in attacking corners, which have been horrific for years lets be fair. Even under Sarri who was apparently someone who had devised multiple different corner kick routines that worked well at Napoli. It didn’t work out that way here.

Bar Zouma, Giroud and maybe Rudiger we lack players who attack the ball well also I think. Maybe you can throw Alonso, Christensen or Silva in there at a push, particularly Christensen - he has won a lot of headers from offensive corners since returning from Mochengladbach but quite frankly is horrendous at putting them on target/in. I mean I don’t think he has scored a goal for us yet and hes had some big free headers in seasons gone by. He scored 7 goals in 2 for Mochengladbach so obviously they’ve probably came from corners/free kicks due to his position and you can see he can win them at times in either box but I tend to remember hes had a few over the seasons that hes failed to put on target that you would expect him to do so. 

Thats why players like Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Drogba, Alex were huge bonuses from set pieces because they’d probably each get between 3-5 goals over the course of a season from them. Obviously the delivery was better also when you consider some of the guys putting them in but I think having guys like Pulisic, Werner, Ziyech, Jorginho, Kante, we are never going to be that prolific from corners anyway because 75% of the teams in the PL are considerably bigger. I suppose this is fine if the games going well and your getting results but also frustrating because set plays can decide games as we’ve seen over the past and also last season the amount of set play goals we conceded was shambolic. 

Marcos Alonso and Giroud don’t play regularly and neither does Zouma really so either way, taking corners if the ball is good or not, the likelihood of scoring from them is incredibly slim because we don’t make the first or second contact enough due to the difference in size/players who are strong at attacking the ball. Although Zouma has got a fair few this season from them, which also highlights his strength in the opposition box.

There has been a lot of poor deliveries that don’t clear the first man or the Gk claims but it also probably doesn’t tell the whole story. 

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