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Tiemoue Bakayoko


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6 hours ago, El P. said:

You mean - if Bakayoko had been really great from the start?

Look, I'm not mad that we've bought Bakayoko. I just don't see a point in bringing players who are MASSIVELY unproven, very young, etc etc, for large sum of money, if we have opportunity to try with some of our players.

So he had good season with Monaco, they were really good, so what? Wasn't their key player and that was for only one season. This is not me saying - Bakayoko is not good enough. Hell, he could become another Essien some day, and that would be great .This is me saying - we need to scout better and if we are really gonna offload our young fellas for someone else (like we did offload Chalobah and bought Bakayoko), that someone better be good, better be really good. Not like this.

So, my answer is - it's a gamble. With a guy like Bakayoko, it's gamble. So why not gamble with our guys instead? (And I'm not even big fan of Chalobah, and I think Bakayoko is slightly better, just for the record.)

You expressed some of the same thoughts I have precisely.

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He should play away from matches.

Willian is a player that’s great in the 2nd third of the pitch, bringing the ball into the final third. After that though his brain freezes. He didn't destroy anything imo because he literally just wa

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8 hours ago, El P. said:

You mean - if Bakayoko had been really great from the start?

Look, I'm not mad that we've bought Bakayoko. I just don't see a point in bringing players who are MASSIVELY unproven, very young, etc etc, for large sum of money, if we have opportunity to try with some of our players.

So he had good season with Monaco, they were really good, so what? Wasn't their key player and that was for only one season. This is not me saying - Bakayoko is not good enough. Hell, he could become another Essien some day, and that would be great .This is me saying - we need to scout better and if we are really gonna offload our young fellas for someone else (like we did offload Chalobah and bought Bakayoko), that someone better be good, better be really good. Not like this.

So, my answer is - it's a gamble. With a guy like Bakayoko, it's gamble. So why not gamble with our guys instead? (And I'm not even big fan of Chalobah, and I think Bakayoko is slightly better, just for the record.)

He may not have been a 'key player' but he still was an unsung here who played a big part of their title winning season that toppled a PSG side and was part of the team that got into the semis of Champions League. I was upset to see Chalobah go but to say Chalobah and Bakayoko are same levels of unproven is not true. Chalobah had barely played any football for a top tier team while Bakayoko has and has been immense in many big matches Monaco had... PSG, Spurs and City for instance.

When people say getting rid of Matic for Bakayoko was a gamble, that is a lot more understandable however Bakayoko and Chalobah were at 2 different stages of their careers before Chalobah left and Bakayoko joined.

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16 hours ago, El P. said:

So we will probably need to wait season or two before this fella becomes great player (EDIT: If he ever gets there, of course)

It was mentioned hundred times, but here it goes again - same situation would be present if we took time and gave REAL opportunity to some of our youngsters (especially Chalobah, for that place). Only difference would be having 40 millions more in the pocket, and having actually our "product" in the squad (+ one more home-grown player).

I don't see Bakayoko anything above Chalobah level at the moment. And the guy is getting first XI start every game. If Nathaniel had this kind of opportunity, to play every game at top club, his story with us could've been very different.

Drogba, Essien, Azpi, and bunch of others werent ''proven material'' either. They had good season or maybe two, much like Bakayoko. I always prefer the club to buy less known players and turn them into club heroes rather than buying established world stars. The prices tho are a reflection of the entire football tho. Yes 40m for Bakayoko was alot, but we have bigger revenue, bigger sponsor contracts, bigger tv rights etc etc. 40m for Bakayoko is like 25m in 2004.

Most here dont see Cahill and Hazard are now the players with longest time here, 2012 (not counting Tibo and Moses who went on loans, or Luiz who left). Thats 5 years. Several top clubs have players who have been there for 10 years. Thats huge difference because those players are true leaders of those clubs. We changed whole generation few years ago and new one is just getting their feet here, and already got 2 titles.

Stability comes with time. And time only. You cant expect great things from players like Morata or Bakayoko just yet. Give them time. Azpi, Tibo, Eden, Kante and maybe Luiz are the backbone of this team and they perform well in majority of the games. But you need whole 11. Bakayoko, Morata, Christensen, Rudiger will get there soon. However we wingbacks and RW leave plenty of improvement to be made in coming windows. We are 3 signings away of having excelent squad. Majority of our squad is 25, 26 then you have Baka who is 23, Azpi who is 28 and Luiz, Cahill over 30, but we already have younger future in Rudiger and Christensen.

Majority of our club youth is overrated as hell too. They might be decent squad players, but I guess they want regular role elsewhere. Nothing we can do about. But most of them would never be good enough for first 11.

Once we solve wingbacks and quality RW, which should be done hopeguly by start of next season, and if we keep all the main players here, this team is going to be beastly in 2019-2020

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And never mind as long someone plays along Cesc, you cant blame him, be it Kante or Bakayoko or someone else.

Cesc is absolute ghost in any defensive or off the ball action and when in possession, he cant control the tempo, cant held his own under pressure. Neither is he a leader or mental winner because he goes in hiding in every bigger game.

No wonder his partner in midfield struggles too then, doing two man job and eventualy getting lost.

Bakayoko had Fabinho in Monaco, once Kante comes back and the two play few games, it should be allright.

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17 hours ago, El P. said:

You mean - if Bakayoko had been really great from the start?

Look, I'm not mad that we've bought Bakayoko. I just don't see a point in bringing players who are MASSIVELY unproven, very young, etc etc, for large sum of money, if we have opportunity to try with some of our players.

So he had good season with Monaco, they were really good, so what? Wasn't their key player and that was for only one season. This is not me saying - Bakayoko is not good enough. Hell, he could become another Essien some day, and that would be great .This is me saying - we need to scout better and if we are really gonna offload our young fellas for someone else (like we did offload Chalobah and bought Bakayoko), that someone better be good, better be really good. Not like this.

So, my answer is - it's a gamble. With a guy like Bakayoko, it's gamble. So why not gamble with our guys instead? (And I'm not even big fan of Chalobah, and I think Bakayoko is slightly better, just for the record.)

Exactly. If a player has only been on the radar for 1 season, and for that season, shown he needs to improve greatly, how do you draft him into your starting XI as the Premier League champions? You can maybe get away with it once in a blue moon (with Kante, who'd literally proven he can win this league), but it is not a solid or safe strategy. 

Sidenote: I hope nobody talks about 'Makelele rates him' again. When asked about Bakayoko, Makelele literally choked, stumbled over his opening words, and offered up a very sugar coated sentence while avoiding answering the specific 'Is he good enough for Chelsea?' (asked more or less in those words.) I cringed when I saw it.

Back to a relative point - Bakayoko would've been an incredible signing for, let's say, £28m (with up to £10m+ extra in performance-related add-ons, if he actually turns out great), with the intention of him being a bench player first. That, is solid. That is a Bayern/Madrid/Barcelona move. What we've done here is amateur. You don't defend titles with moves like this.

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On 30.10.2017 at 8:29 AM, Kieran. said:

People really calling for Baka to be dropped? Lol

Yes. He has been atrocious for weeks now and tonights first half is even worse. 

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I'm sorry to say it, but at this moment it's not down to form or fitness; he's just not a very good player.

He needs to improve to start for us. His position is just too important to start him at this time.

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7 minutes ago, Leif said:

Give him time x He is young x He is in a new league xx

- But Roma aren't in the Premier League.

So is it just his age now?

I honestly don't know what people are expecting from him. 

He clearly wasn't the finished product at Monaco (if we wanted that, Fabinho was the obvious choice) and one of his former coaches (Makelele) said before the season that you won't see much from him for 1-2 seasons as he needs time to improve/adapt to a new team. 

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Again bad but the whole team’s been performing terribly for weeks now imo. This is why I said we shouldn’t be selling Matic for DD - TB coming back from a long injury only to be thrown into the side like that was bound to have these sort of performances happening. Plus the fact that he’s still raw as a player and needs time. Also, coupled with the fact that he’s possibly pairing up with one of the worst CMs in the world when it comes to defending or controlling a midfield battle atm...

Feel like he’s going to be scapegoated unfairly. Kante needed back ASAP - much better when he plays.  

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10 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

I honestly don't know what people are expecting from him. 

He clearly wasn't the finished product at Monaco (if we wanted that, Fabinho was the obvious choice) and one of his former coaches (Makelele) said before the season that you won't see much from him for 1-2 seasons as he needs time to improve/adapt to a new team. 

We're expecting performances fitting of Premier League champions. If you don't bring that, you have no right being on the pitch.

We also expect players to use their initiative to improve once upgrading their company to the likes of Hazard, Kante, Azpilicueta, Courtois - not stay as they were a whole year ago, possibly worse. This 2nd part is enough to show he hasn't got 'it'. If he can't improve on his own in a year, if being around better players doesn't improve him, if being under a better coach doesn't improve him, ageing won't. So we're rightfully frustrated at the board, considering some of us said with confidence that Fabinho was the only option we should consider for central midfield from that Monaco squad. Bakayoko has the mentality of a clown. A pedestrian. A boy.

And, in fact, we don't expect anything more than this. This is exactly what I expected before signing him, and this is exactly what others now will continue to expect from him, rightfully so.

Imagine waiting until 25 years old for a 40m player to just be consistently decent. This deal must come under scrutiny; all parties on our end must.

Edit: And not signing Fabinho was nothing but an oversight. Why wouldn't the board want a finished product, who offers more, at the same age? Where on earth is the logic in signing Bakayoko for what would be the same sum, at the same age, because he's not a well rounded player? Does being shit magically mean you have acres of room to grow?

Edit 2: Carpal tunnel coming soon :lol:

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1 minute ago, Leif said:

We're expecting performances fitting of Premier League champions. If you don't bring that, you have no right being on the pitch.

We also expect players to use their initiative to improve once upgrading their company to the likes of Hazard, Kante, Azpilicueta, Courtois - not stay as they were a whole year ago, possibly worse. 

Doesn't matter if he brings it or not, there is NO ALTERNATIVE in the squad. 

With Kante injured, our midfield was always going to be f*cked....but I didn't think it would be this bad. 

You say you expect players to use initiative and improve...but I would say most of the players from last year have regressed (apart from Kante).   

Courtois looks cocky, Azpi needs a breather, Luiz is back to the old Luiz (sometimes brilliant, other times headless chicken), Alonso has been found out defensively, Willian hasn't done much this season. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Yeah I was expecting a midfielder capable of picking up a pass, but I guess that's too much to ask. :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone at all could name even 1 midfielder in the history of European football who went from unable to pass well at 23, to growing into a 'woah, good pass' type. He'll forever fuck up if he has the ball. Right now I'd swap him for Ramires.

Hazard right now and throughout all his time here, has been a similar level to what he was at 23. Courtois too, similar to when he was 23. Morata, same level as when he was 23. Cahill, similar level as his 23 year old self, surely, and then Azpilicueta too. 

This idea that a 23 year old player can become twice the player they currently are...that's something i've only seen happen at Barcelona, & with the greatest strikers to ever touch the game.

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