Tiemoue Bakayoko

[BlueLyon 9,359]

27 minutes ago, Rekin said:

I think the idea is indeed to provide an alternative to Matic. Keep in mind that Conte wanted Nainggolan even after Matic was staying and we got Kante, so it is likely that he is not very highly rated. 
Having a more creative partner to Kante without giving away the solidity in the middle is a priority in my opinion, but every time I am trying to think of someone who is a combination of Fabregas and Kante I fail to come up with a realistic option. 

Nevertheless, I do not think Matic has been amazing for us, even this season. He is good, but he just seems to lack a clear purpose. He has a good technique, but lacks the dynamism to take advantage of it. He lacks the passing range to provide a threat from the depth (assists dont matter here, its a statistic that can be very misleading). Basically, he is a disrupting element that delivers the ball to a someone more offensive whenever possible. Kante does this too, but he does it with far more energy. If not for the height, I would prefer a Kante - Kante midfield to a Matic - Kante one.

Anyway, I took the liberty to compare some statistics between four players. Our own Kante & Matic, but also Bakayoko and Naby Keita. The left-most are the best in each category underneath. 

Tackles - Kante, Bakayoko, Keita, Matic

Interceptions - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

Clearances - Bakayoko, Matic, Keita, Kante

Dribbled past per game - basically identical, Kante is slightly worse than the others

Key passes - Keita, Matic, Kante, Bakayoko (very poor here)

Pass success - Almost identical between them (Keita is poor here)

Dribbles - Keita, Bakayoko, Kante, Matic

Shots - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

 

These are just some selected categories I think are relevant to the position, and they fail to take many things in consideration. For example, Monaco and Chelsea play differently, the teams are in different leagues with different players surrounding and supporting them. Furthermore, Matic is 6-7 years older than Keita and Bakayoko. Still, if we only look at the statistics, Matic is not doing well (and no, I did not choose categories where he is performing poorly on purpose). It is very possible that if we bought Bakayoko in January, and let him rotate with Matic until summer, he would be starting next to Kante next season rather than Matic. 
What the statistics tell me the most though, is that Keita is developing to be that player next to Kante we need. He should be the one we target, whether now or in the summer. For being a 21-year old, he is doing extremely well. 

EDIT: I found this on Redcafe:
I have watched Monaco a few times this season when they played against PSG and Spurs. Bakayoko did impress in those matches. The closest player Bakayoko resembles to in my opinion is Matic. He is a destroyer with the ability to keep the ball under pressure and he can carry the ball out of midfield to initiate attacks. His passing range however leaves much to be desired. Passing in between the lines, switching the play and spotting the runners who makes movements into space has what made Carrick a mainstay in the United team for a decade and Bakayoko unfortunately wouldn't be providing those qualities from what I have seen.

This is also the feeling I get. Bakayoko is more of an improvement on Matic (possibly) rather than a completely different player. It does make sense though. With Mikel leaving, a long-term injury to Kante or Matic would be a disaster. The signing would make sense, even though again, I believe Keita is closer to the type of a player we need. 

 

34 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

We need competition for places our squad in this formation is bare thin... 

Bakayoko looks like a squad player capable of giving Kante or Matic a break should their form drop.(And there has been evidence of Kante's form slipping slightly) 

We have a creative mid in Fabregas who barely plays, its clear to me Conte prefers energy and ball winning ability in the middle over creativity. A midfielder that can do both is rare and def not available in January.

If we are linked with Sidibe is because we need competition for places and Moses or Alonso have no peer right now.

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

[Rekin 835]

7 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

The suggestion is that Bakayoko could either already be, or soon become, better than Matic. If you could keep the balance we have in the middle right now, but do so with a player that can do what Matic does with the potential of doing more, would you say no?
Bakayoko is 22, and he is in a specific tactical setup right now. He might have qualities that the untrained eye misses.
For the record, he is not my number one wish for the position, but I see some rational thinking in bringing him on, should it happen.  

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

4 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

Why go after Bakayoko? Because he provides energy, technique and ball winning ability to a team that have thrived up until this point on these exact qualities. We're in for the title, if anything happens to either Kante or Matic we're screwed that loss/losses becomes marginal if we are able to acquire a like for like substitute in Bakayoko. Remember we're not just losing Mikel its also Oscar. No one we get in January is going to be an automatic starter, what we need are options should players form drop. We can address your want for a prime Vidal(if that even exists) in the Summer.

And as far as his progress goes how does minimal playing time in a 4 month period stall a 22 yr olds career? If it doesn't work out he goes on loan next year to get more time. Its about challenging yourself at the highest level, that's when you begin to understand how far you need to go and how hard you need to work... Moses is a perfect example of this. 

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

On 12/17/2016 at 5:24 PM, Blue Colored Sky said:

He'll only eats out Chalobah minutes. Same age, same position, same build.

Would be incredibly stupid buy. 

But hes a much much better player though. Chalobah is not bad but still hes hardly playing a lot or at a level to compete with Cesc, Matic or Kante. There is a lot of talk about Verratti and the Croatian bloke from Fiorentina being targets for us too, hardly promising for Chalobah's future is it? 

[BoyBlue96 990]

This is a Conte player. Exactly the type of defensive midfielder he loves to play in a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 formation. Very strong and will bring much energy to our midfield. I think that's what Antonio is looking out for for the eventual change to 3-5-2. 2 strong DM's, think N'Golo, Matic and this guy and then a box to box midfielder like Nainggolan or even better Verratti.

Isn't AS Monaco full of young talented players? I watched the UCL games against Spurs and what a wonderfull club. Thomas Lemar. This Bakayoko.
I prefer Bakayoko and Sidibe over James.

People who rage over this guy because of Chalobah... don't think Nate is being favoured much by Conte.

 

Reminds me a bit off Michael Essien. As much as Kanté reminds me of Makelele. 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

53 minutes ago, BoyBlue96 said:

This is a Conte player. Exactly the type of defensive midfielder he loves to play in a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 formation. Very strong and will bring much energy to our midfield. I think that's what Antonio is looking out for for the eventual change to 3-5-2. 2 strong DM's, think N'Golo, Matic and this guy and then a box to box midfielder like Nainggolan or even better Verratti.

Isn't AS Monaco full of young talented players? I watched the UCL games against Spurs and what a wonderfull club. Thomas Lemar. This Bakayoko.
I prefer Bakayoko and Sidibe over James.

People who rage over this guy because of Chalobah... don't think Nate is being favoured much by Conte.

 

Reminds me a bit off Michael Essien. As much as Kanté reminds me of Makelele. 

You recon 3:5:2 would work in PL tho? Without wingers (not that in 3:4:3 we have natural wingers, but still), it would be quite difficult against some teams. If we intend to play 3:5:2, we would definately need two absolutely brilliant attacking wingbacks to add width. Moses and Alonso are good in current setup, because they get supported by Eden and Pedro, but if they were alone, I think quality of our attack from wings would drop.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

17 hours ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Why go after Bakayoko? Because he provides energy, technique and ball winning ability to a team that have thrived up until this point on these exact qualities. We're in for the title, if anything happens to either Kante or Matic we're screwed that loss/losses becomes marginal if we are able to acquire a like for like substitute in Bakayoko. Remember we're not just losing Mikel its also Oscar. No one we get in January is going to be an automatic starter, what we need are options should players form drop. We can address your want for a prime Vidal(if that even exists) in the Summer.

And as far as his progress goes how does minimal playing time in a 4 month period stall a 22 yr olds career? If it doesn't work out he goes on loan next year to get more time. Its about challenging yourself at the highest level, that's when you begin to understand how far you need to go and how hard you need to work... Moses is a perfect example of this. 

Well maybe it could work. But his passing is realy average. Essien and Yaya both had brilliant passing abilities and great tecnhique. Essien not to that extent as Yaya, but he was still very composed passer. Bakayoko even tho he is young, his passing is worse than Matic. Apart from that he is top player and well, if Conte wants him then so be it.

[BoyBlue96 990]

15 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

You recon 3:5:2 would work in PL tho? Without wingers (not that in 3:4:3 we have natural wingers, but still), it would be quite difficult against some teams. If we intend to play 3:5:2, we would definately need two absolutely brilliant attacking wingbacks to add width. Moses and Alonso are good in current setup, because they get supported by Eden and Pedro, but if they were alone, I think quality of our attack from wings would drop.

It worked for Italy on the EURO 2016 against other teams with different formations.

If you have the right players, every formation will fit.

[Rekin 835]

2 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Well maybe it could work. But his passing is realy average. Essien and Yaya both had brilliant passing abilities and great tecnhique. Essien not to that extent as Yaya, but he was still very composed passer. Bakayoko even tho he is young, his passing is worse than Matic. Apart from that he is top player and well, if Conte wants him then so be it.

Who would you go for? 

Our midfield options are Kante, Matic, Fabregas, Mikel and Chalobah. It might seem like a lot of options, but keep in mind that Mikel is leaving in January while Chalobah is unlikely to offer the same level as the remaining three in any way. That leaves us with Kante, Matic and Fabregas. Fabregas is not really suited to our way of playing, and is more of a tactical option at this point. To play the way Conte intends, we basically need Kante and Matic out of our current players, and for all we know one of them might do their knee in on Monday. 

In other words, not buying a CM in January will jeopardize any potential title chase, as it is likely to go the whole way and every margin matters. So, if we can agree on this, who would you buy? I'm not trying to be rude or anything, Im just honestly curious as I see people complain about Badelj, Bakayoko and Nainggolan, but not provide any alternatives. This does not necessarily extend to you, but I just want to know who people see us go for. 

Nainggolan is pursued by us. That much is clear. If you compare him to Bakayoko, then Radja is statistically the worse defender, has worse technique and is worse in the air. As much as I would like to dismiss the aerial statistics, it is actually very relevant, and Bakayoko is a monster in that department. Look how many goals from set pieces we see in the PL. Radja is however the better passer and better shooter, but is that enough? 
My only concern with Bakayoko is his passing ability. He seems ok with the simple ones, but nothing more than that. Is that something he can develop? I do not think it is something you can vastly improve, but considering it seems to be his only clear weakness, even a small improvement would translate into a top class player. 

I am honestly torn here. Radja is a short term purchase, likely to last us 3-4 seasons. That is enough to justify a pretty large transfer fee for me, but the question is whether he is what we need. The CM scene right now seems to be better than in a long time. We have Bakayoko, Fabinho, Tolisso, Weigl (new contract though), Keita & Kessie in the market outside of the top tier. It is likely that a few of them will leave their clubs in the summer, and I would prefer us grabbing one of them rather than buy someone much older. Furthermore, I think that the midfield is at least acceptable without that super passing ability as long as we can find someone on the RW that is at least close to the level of Hazard & Costa. 

[Leif 6,006]

We're not linked to the guy at all, I'm sure we'll never be, but I'd much rather go for Kevin Kampl. He's for the most part consistent, and like Essien was he can be your best defensive player on the day, then your best attacking player the next. Failing that, Franco Vazquez has been the best midfielder in La Liga for me this season, and nobody from Seville would turn down a move to us. He's more attacking oriented but again, he has those days where he intercepts & tackles more than everyone else.

I want to say 'Enough kids' before we turn into Arsenal.

I would take Schneiderlin too, as a back-up player. Just because he's been mismanaged at United doesn't mean the qualities he showed at Southampton are magically gone.

[Unionjack 7,531]

Seems to be linked with alot of good teams right now so must be something good about him I admit to not knowing owt about him apart from couple of youtube vids.  But at 22 I would question whether hes that much better than Chalobah. Now I'm not sure whetrher Conte has full faith in him nut I think Chalohah could be very good with right training.

Now if hes not exceptionally better than Chalobah then I think we should leave it and buy one that is. Not just to bring out on occasions. But  bring in 1st team starters and use current ones for depth.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Well maybe it could work. But his passing is realy average. Essien and Yaya both had brilliant passing abilities and great tecnhique. Essien not to that extent as Yaya, but he was still very composed passer. Bakayoko even tho he is young, his passing is worse than Matic. Apart from that he is top player and well, if Conte wants him then so be it.

Yes Essien and Yaya were world class midfielders I don't get the comparison?

Bakayoko is likely gonna be a squad guy with a chance to replace Matic because the other things he does on the pitch are way better than Nemanja.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

On 22.12.2016 at 4:57 PM, Tomo said:

Chalobah is never going to be more than a O Shea style squad player, abandoning signing's because of Nate would be insane.

I always say the same, I don't care about our young players as long as we buy clear world-class player/talent. I'm all for buying Busquets to block Nate's path. But this guy is marginally better copy of Chalobah and lacks experience. So 30m€ for a project who still needs few years to develop? Stick with Chalobah and spend on something we don't have. It can be even youngster as long as good one who offers something new.

 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

32 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Yes Essien and Yaya were world class midfielders I don't get the comparison?

Bakayoko is likely gonna be a squad guy with a chance to replace Matic because the other things he does on the pitch are way better than Nemanja.

I meant that Bakayoko passing is likely not gonna get him spot in top team. He is Mikel-level at that and regardless if he is brilliant tackler, your DM needs to be sound technicaly. Both Essien and Yaya were that, but Bakayoko is not (because some pointed out that he is similar).

So if he is only going to be back up, why not just have Matic for back up and buy a top midfielder to play next to Kante? (not in january but in summer obv.)

[Unionjack 7,531]

25 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

Yes Essien and Yaya were world class midfielders I don't get the comparison?

Bakayoko is likely gonna be a squad guy with a chance to replace Matic because the other things he does on the pitch are way better than Nemanja.

Is it just good squad guys we should be looking at or ones to go into the 1st team as starters?

Dont know about you but I'd dearly like to see us buy a couple of world class players to show that we are serious in making a move on Europe.

Yes I understand we arent in Europe YET and we aren't nor never been a club like Mounure that attracts these players but we do have a few quid and money talks.

Im not saying buy them for the sake of buying them but in a couple of key positions buying class IMHO