Tiemoue Bakayoko

[Beigl 1,387]

Kante was pretty bad for his standards yesterday, no need to judge a player by one game. Especially when you consider that France was set up badly from the first minute and it was a international friendly after all.

[ja1 1,166]

This man is a black Matic, agree with sentiments saying he won't improve our XI, and will be more of a grey, cement signing like Oscar, Willian, Schurrle. He's not very dynamic, has a poor passing range, generally is quite clumsy and so not very adventurous. Ideally for the player next to Kante we need a lot of things - power, probably height, stamina. But we also need, in the most general of terms, someone who's good on the ball, who can carry it well and if he can't do that, then produce quick vertical long and short passes to our forwards. Bakayoko isn't this player. An underwhelming target for me.

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, ja1 said:

This man is a black Matic, agree with sentiments saying he won't improve our XI, and will be more of a grey, cement signing like Oscar, Willian, Schurrle. He's not very dynamic, has a poor passing range, generally is quite clumsy and so not very adventurous. Ideally for the player next to Kante we need a lot of things - power, probably height, stamina. But we also need, in the most general of terms, someone who's good on the ball, who can carry it well and if he can't do that, then produce quick vertical long and short passes to our forwards. Bakayoko isn't this player. An underwhelming target for me.

You proceed calling him the black Matic and then continue to describe a completely different player...

If you don't think that he's a player not capable of carrying the ball then you obviously haven't watched him enough. 

[11Drogba 2,000]

We read a lot of alternative facts in this thread. If you noticed him recently&watched him for a few games you have been doing it all wrong and your opinion doesn't matter.

[Chelsea? 892]

26 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

We read a lot of alternative facts in this thread. If you noticed him recently&watched him for a few games you have been doing it all wrong and your opinion doesn't matter.

It's better to judge a player's body of work rather than just a few games. 

[ja1 1,166]

12 hours ago, The Skipper said:

You proceed calling him the black Matic and then continue to describe a completely different player...

If you don't think that he's a player not capable of carrying the ball then you obviously haven't watched him enough. 

"He's not very dynamic, has a poor passing range, generally is quite clumsy and so not very adventurous." is also how I'd describe Matic?

 

[The Skipper 20,593]

6 hours ago, ja1 said:

"He's not very dynamic, has a poor passing range, generally is quite clumsy and so not very adventurous." is also how I'd describe Matic?

 

My point is that he is a very dynamic player, if you watched him play you would know such. Completely different to Matic, much more athletic, way better in his close control dribbling as well. I think at Monaco, he is instructed to be less adventurous because they only play with 2 CMs. It's how their systems work. Both of their CMs are not as adventurous because they provide a platform for the true attacking talent to showcase their exactly that. 

Bakayoko is underused in that aspect, held back a bit. He has the ability to execute some amazing long bursting runs from box to box to truly instigate attacks, with his athleticism and close control, but because he's a real force defensively as well, his manager has decided to tap into that more to get his system to run well. And its worked very well, they are top of the table in France atm. 

That's what I mean by you completely describing a different player. He isn't the black Matic at all. A black Matic wouldn't have the attributes he does.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

3 hours ago, The Skipper said:

My point is that he is a very dynamic player, if you watched him play you would know such. Completely different to Matic, much more athletic, way better in his close control dribbling as well. I think at Monaco, he is instructed to be less adventurous because they only play with 2 CMs. It's how their systems work. Both of their CMs are not as adventurous because they provide a platform for the true attacking talent to showcase their exactly that. 

Bakayoko is underused in that aspect, held back a bit. He has the ability to execute some amazing long bursting runs from box to box to truly instigate attacks, with his athleticism and close control, but because he's a real force defensively as well, his manager has decided to tap into that more to get his system to run well. And its worked very well, they are top of the table in France atm. 

That's what I mean by you completely describing a different player. He isn't the black Matic at all. A black Matic wouldn't have the attributes he does.

His passing, decision making and general awareness do seem to be quite lacking, won't you agree?

[The Skipper 20,593]

6 minutes ago, Mufassir08 said:

His passing, decision making and general awareness do seem to be quite lacking, won't you agree?

Agree with passing and decision making but that'll get better. Don't agree with general awareness though. 

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Just now, The Skipper said:

Agree with passing and decision making but that'll get better. Don't agree with general awareness though. 

My biggest gripe with him is that he looses the ball way too often due to his sloppy passing, we already struggle against teams that press us high and having a midfield pairing of Baka and Kante would see us struggle against the high energy teams albeit defensively and in terms of athletic ability, we would be very good. I do realize that Baka might wriggle his way out of some situations due to his good feet but more often than not due his general sloppiness on the ball, I think we'll see a lot of turnovers in midfield.

[the wes 7,212]

14 minutes ago, Mufassir08 said:

His passing, decision making and general awareness do seem to be quite lacking, won't you agree?

Was Toure not like at Barcelona before he turn into cracking player for city? 

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Just now, the wes said:

Was Toure not like at Barcelona before he turn into cracking player for city 

I disagree, Toure always had great technique and was incredibly hard to disposses. It's only that at City he got more freedom to show the more expansive side of his game.

[The Skipper 20,593]

4 hours ago, Mufassir08 said:

My biggest gripe with him is that he looses the ball way too often due to his sloppy passing, we already struggle against teams that press us high and having a midfield pairing of Baka and Kante would see us struggle against the high energy teams albeit defensively and in terms of athletic ability, we would be very good. I do realize that Baka might wriggle his way out of some situations due to his good feet but more often than not due his general sloppiness on the ball, I think we'll see a lot of turnovers in midfield.

He completes most of his passes, it's around 90%. It's not so bad. It's not a problem in Conte's system. We don't really create much from CM. He wouldn't struggle against high energy teams because of his dribbling ability.

And besides, Kante and Bakayoko shielding Fabregas would be an option if we needed more control in midfield. 

[Johnnyeye 7,441]

5 hours ago, Mufassir08 said:

I disagree, Toure always had great technique and was incredibly hard to disposses. It's only that at City he got more freedom to show the more expansive side of his game.

kinda like what Mikel could have offered us if he was given that kind of freedom, who knows?

[Yeboii 1,844]

2 hours ago, Johnnyeye said:

kinda like what Mikel could have offered us if he was given that kind of freedom, who knows?

Mikel could have been soooooo good! Don't get me wrong I think he was a terrific player for us, but he could have been so much more.

[Mufassir08 2,400]

8 hours ago, The Skipper said:

He completes most of his passes, it's around 90%. It's not so bad. It's not a problem in Conte's system. We don't really create much from CM. He wouldn't struggle against high energy teams because of his dribbling ability.

And besides, Kante and Bakayoko shielding Fabregas would be an option if we needed more control in midfield. 

Kante and someone like Baka shielding Cesc is definitely something that excites me I'll be honest. Two defensively dynamic players sweeping the midfield so that Cesc can focus on what he does best.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

12 hours ago, The Skipper said:

He completes most of his passes, it's around 90%. It's not so bad. It's not a problem in Conte's system. We don't really create much from CM. He wouldn't struggle against high energy teams because of his dribbling ability.

And besides, Kante and Bakayoko shielding Fabregas would be an option if we needed more control in midfield. 

A lot of people don't know why we are okay with Bakayoko. 

Look at us this season, since we changed to a 3-4-3, we have beaten the smaller teams in the league with more ease than anyone else. We don't have any problem of creativity against smaller teams. 

But against the big teams, we were defensively opened up a lot against mancity, we were bullied by Tottenham’s pressing in two games against them especially in the first half. Pressing is our weakness. That is the problem we need to solve next season, because it will come in every game in the Champions League. We need more players in our back seven in the 3-4-3 to be able to cope with pressing. To be able to hold the ball under pressure, and dribble out and get the ball straight to hazard. Passing doesn't work as effectively as dribbling against high pressing, and fabregas being poor under pressure is proof of my point. I am not saying passing isn't important, I'm just saying when being pressed, the ability to dribble out of the jam is more important. The best of both worlds would have been Verratti, but it's unrealistic. 

What we need is to remove 2-3 players who are weak against pressing and too one footed (Matic, Alonso) for guys who can dribble past players (nainggolan/Bakayoko Alex.sandro/Mendy) and we'll start beating tottenhams/Liverpool/manutd press more often.

People who watched essien know how crucial this type of midfielders are in the team.  

[The Skipper 20,593]

14 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

A lot of people don't know why we are okay with Bakayoko. 

Look at us this season, since we changed to a 3-4-3, we have beaten the smaller teams in the league with more ease than anyone else. We don't have any problem of creativity against smaller teams. 

But against the big teams, we were defensively opened up a lot against mancity, we were bullied by Tottenham’s pressing in two games against them especially in the first half. Pressing is our weakness. That is the problem we need to solve next season, because it will come in every game in the Champions League. We need more players in our back seven in the 3-4-3 to be able to cope with pressing. To be able to hold the ball under pressure, and dribble out and get the ball straight to hazard. Passing doesn't work as effectively as dribbling against high pressing, and fabregas being poor under pressure is proof of my point. I am not saying passing isn't important, I'm just saying when being pressed, the ability to dribble out of the jam is more important. The best of both worlds would have been Verratti, but it's unrealistic. 

What we need is to remove 2-3 players who are weak against pressing and too one footed (Matic, Alonso) for guys who can dribble past players (nainggolan/Bakayoko Alex.sandro/Mendy) and we'll start beating tottenhams/Liverpool/manutd press more often.

People who watched essien know how crucial this type of midfielders are in the team.  

Spot on. Best post in this thread.