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2. Antonio Rudiger


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5 hours ago, manpe said:

Anybody would. If Liverpool want him for whatever reason, we mustn't sell and potentially strengthen their squad.

Tbh if we went on to buy Skriniar as Rudi replacement and a new CB that we need regardless like Carlos (just throwing a quality CB who is commanding in air), I wouldnt mind selling Rudiger to Liverpool. 

Its all about improving the backline and that would do it 10 times. 

I dont mind keeping Rudiger as he can be good CB, but he is too nervous. He will never improve that part. And that makes him a liability unfortunely.

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Leif suffering a meltdown over Rudiger might be the funniest thing in this transfer window

Too much work for marina and enanleo they now deserve a real break...

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1 hour ago, Puliiszola said:

Kante pre-injury was the best in the world and yet you want him sold. Despite him still putting in good performances

But on the other hand, we have rudiger who across the season has shown that he has fallen mightily in terms of quality, yet we are supposed to give him another season, while selling the player who was light years ahead of him in terms of CB play?

Nah, not buying it.

Zouma's great tackling might have ended up giving us a chance for CL this season. Rudi has done nothing. He is 27 and will be 28 next season, injury prone, so if he gets another one next season, thats it, he is done. There will be no market for him and we will have another dreg on our books. If we can make a decent buck out of him right now, we should do it. Get rice, see if tomori improves and see how ampadu does on loan. If both have a success, it's a massive win for us and we can move on from zouma and Ac next season (when hopefully the market would have stabilised and fans would be back).

I laid out my very valid reasons for selling Kante onn a myriad number of occasions

I am not going to going to post them again

I will be proven right

bookmark this exact post

same for Zouma and AC, and if need be, Rudiger next year

I am so sick of the continual gas-lighting and rationalisation that have from certain quarters here

the results speak for themselves

we have a absolutely horrid defence

if Lamps tries to run the same drill and also shoehorns in Kante, plus we do not do much with the back 4 and GK, we are fucked

bookmark this

it will be how I am describing next year if we do not address all of the structural weakpoints Kante included

Kante cannot function effectively as the sole holding DMF and he is marginal at best as a RMF

he is tailor made for a dual pivot, counter attacking team like Conte runs

Lamps is not Conte

Kante turns 30 thsicoming season

Kante is now an often-injured player

Kante's value for resale is already greatly reduced, and will fall through the floor once he turns 30 plus

he is slight of frame and has been through the grinder for ages

Eden was not even slight of frame, but once he came within sniffing distance of 30, look what happened to him after years of being beaten on

I predicted that before he signed for RM, and it came true even beyond my expectations

the same will more than likely happen with Kante (and already is)

Zouma will NEVER become a Wc, or even near great CB

none of our CBs will, enless Tomori somehow pulls it off

Rudiger is what he is, but at least has years of proven service at a level above anything Zouma has shown

I am not saying he cannot be sold, but AC and Zouma need to go first

Zouma has a tonne of middling teams who fit his skillset, and they will pay decent money

sell AC first (or try to) but Zouma simply cannot be taken off the table if we cannot or will not sell the others

we need to raise funds, and due to Marina's past bullshit refusals to sell and crazy over-valuations, we are now reaping the whirlwind of vastly diminished returns on already well-proven SHIT

thank fuck we got in Werner and Ziyech, as if that had not happened and we went truly wonky this window (and ended up with very little upgrades at all, and had just brought in the usual panic-buy trash yet again) we would be staring down the barrel of the very real possibility of not even making the top 7 seven next year. In fact, let's say the true nightmare happens. We fuck up Havertz, and cannot find a solution to the Kepa nightmare and just decide to roll with him and Willy yet again. Add in a fail at Rice, and we do not unload any of our CB's and also bring in no new ones. Finally, we say, fuck it, we have failed in every other area, so we cave in and pay £70-80m for Chilwell, and that is it. No new wingers (we have only 3 true ones atm, if just one goes down it is scramble time for a sub as Mount will be out playing in MF a tonne, unless RLC steps up), no new DMF's no new CB's. We roll with Kante and Jorginho (as we cannot find a buyer for him) as the DMF's. and that tactical positional back and forth destabilises the team further (just like it did this year).

IF that is how it ends up (provide no January miracle buy) Lamps will be sacked before the end of the season, or be under insane pressure. We will have a good shot, even with Ziyech and Werner, of missing out on the CL/EL altogether, especially if Manure, and Spuds, and Arse and Leicester pull off some minor coups, and Wolves (who will have ZERO Europe distractions) hold onto all or most of their players. I am sure Everton will be better as well, never underestimate Carlo. Add in the rando  yearly surprise team, and we will be in a knife-fight for top 7.

 

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2 hours ago, Vesper said:

I laid out my very valid reasons for selling Kante onn a myriad number of occasions

I am not going to going to post them again

I will be proven right

bookmark this exact post

same for Zouma and AC, and if need be, Rudiger next year

I am so sick of the continual gas-lighting and rationalisation that have from certain quarters here

the results speak for themselves

we have a absolutely horrid defence

if Lamps tries to run the same drill and also shoehorns in Kante, plus we do not do much with the back 4 and GK, we are fucked

bookmark this

it will be how I am describing next year if we do not address all of the structural weakpoints Kante included

Kante cannot function effectively as the sole holding DMF and he is marginal at best as a RMF

he is tailor made for a dual pivot, counter attacking team like Conte runs

Lamps is not Conte

Kante turns 30 thsicoming season

Kante is now an often-injured player

Kante's value for resale is already greatly reduced, and will fall through the floor once he turns 30 plus

he is slight of frame and has been through the grinder for ages

Eden was not even slight of frame, but once he came within sniffing distance of 30, look what happened to him after years of being beaten on

I predicted that before he signed for RM, and it came true even beyond my expectations

the same will more than likely happen with Kante (and already is)

Zouma will NEVER become a Wc, or even near great CB

none of our CBs will, enless Tomori somehow pulls it off

Rudiger is what he is, but at least has years of proven service at a level above anything Zouma has shown

I am not saying he cannot be sold, but AC and Zouma need to go first

Zouma has a tonne of middling teams who fit his skillset, and they will pay decent money

sell AC first (or try to) but Zouma simply cannot be taken off the table if we cannot or will not sell the others

we need to raise funds, and due to Marina's past bullshit refusals to sell and crazy over-valuations, we are now reaping the whirlwind of vastly diminished returns on already well-proven SHIT

thank fuck we got in Werner and Ziyech, as if that had not happened and we went truly wonky this window (and ended up with very little upgrades at all, and had just brought in the usual panic-buy trash yet again) we would be staring down the barrel of the very real possibility of not even making the top 7 seven next year. In fact, let's say the true nightmare happens. We fuck up Havertz, and cannot find a solution to the Kepa nightmare and just decide to roll with him and Willy yet again. Add in a fail at Rice, and we do not unload any of our CB's and also bring in no new ones. Finally, we say, fuck it, we have failed in every other area, so we cave in and pay £70-80m for Chilwell, and that is it. No new wingers (we have only 3 true ones atm, if just one goes down it is scramble time for a sub as Mount will be out playing in MF a tonne, unless RLC steps up), no new DMF's no new CB's. We roll with Kante and Jorginho (as we cannot find a buyer for him) as the DMF's. and that tactical positional back and forth destabilises the team further (just like it did this year).

IF that is how it ends up (provide no January miracle buy) Lamps will be sacked before the end of the season, or be under insane pressure. We will have a good shot, even with Ziyech and Werner, of missing out on the CL/EL altogether, especially if Manure, and Spuds, and Arse and Leicester pull off some minor coups, and Wolves (who will have ZERO Europe distractions) hold onto all or most of their players. I am sure Everton will be better as well, never underestimate Carlo. Add in the rando  yearly surprise team, and we will be in a knife-fight for top 7.

 

I see a lot of kante points. 

I see "zouma and Ac" need to be sold, yet I don't see "why should we keep Rudi". What has he done to deserve being kept ahead of zouma. Anyone who thinks zouma should be sold but Rudi should be kept is the one gaslighting or simply being prejudiced.  Can you in one line give a prediction about "How will Rudiger perform if we keep him another year". I will definitely bookmark that and come back to it next year.

Rudi is shit. If you want a prediction, have this. If Rudi stays here another season, he will have another torrid season and become an immovable dreg. 

Simple as that. 

Anywyas, let's just hope Liverpool give us 25m for him and he becomes there problem.

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31 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Anywyas, let's just hope Liverpool give us 25m for him and he becomes there problem.

Have not seen any legit source reporting this Liverpool interest. It came from a dodgy source in Mundo Deportivo, apparently.

But just for argument sake, if Rudiger is really so bad, then why does Klopp want him? Mind, am not saying he's world class or anything. 

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40 minutes ago, Jason said:

Have not seen any legit source reporting this Liverpool interest. It came from a dodgy source in Mundo Deportivo, apparently.

But just for argument sake, if Rudiger is really so bad, then why does Klopp want him? Mind, am not saying he's world class or anything. 

On the same level as Lovren, so a like for like replacement.

Cheap and workable 4th choice CB. "4th choice" being the operative word here.

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4 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

On the same level as Lovren, so a like for like replacement.

Cheap and workable 4th choice CB. "4th choice" being the operative word here.

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Just now, Puliiszola said:

Dont understand this reaction.

Or are we going to hype up Rudi to be a world class defender? 

No. Just oookay, nothing else to say.

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I would keep them both. I said many times Zouma-Rudiger pairing played just 4 times this season and we had 4 clean sheets. This is all on Frank. And now it seems he has obsession with English players.

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I dont believe we will weaken them to be honest, you just know Klopp will somehow make him look really good, the media too will run amok with it. How they can plug players from rivals, how pool can attract players blah blah blah.

No sale you pool cunts.

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10 hours ago, Jason said:

 

hopefully he helps to get Havertz over the line and then works on Ginter

and helps sell some of our dregs to the Bundelsliga (I am probably asking too much there, lol)

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On 8/13/2020 at 4:02 AM, Vesper said:

I laid out my very valid reasons for selling Kante onn a myriad number of occasions

I am not going to going to post them again

I will be proven right

bookmark this exact post

same for Zouma and AC, and if need be, Rudiger next year

I am so sick of the continual gas-lighting and rationalisation that have from certain quarters here

the results speak for themselves

we have a absolutely horrid defence

if Lamps tries to run the same drill and also shoehorns in Kante, plus we do not do much with the back 4 and GK, we are fucked

bookmark this

it will be how I am describing next year if we do not address all of the structural weakpoints Kante included

Kante cannot function effectively as the sole holding DMF and he is marginal at best as a RMF

he is tailor made for a dual pivot, counter attacking team like Conte runs

Lamps is not Conte

Kante turns 30 thsicoming season

Kante is now an often-injured player

Kante's value for resale is already greatly reduced, and will fall through the floor once he turns 30 plus

he is slight of frame and has been through the grinder for ages

Eden was not even slight of frame, but once he came within sniffing distance of 30, look what happened to him after years of being beaten on

I predicted that before he signed for RM, and it came true even beyond my expectations

the same will more than likely happen with Kante (and already is)

Zouma will NEVER become a Wc, or even near great CB

none of our CBs will, enless Tomori somehow pulls it off

Rudiger is what he is, but at least has years of proven service at a level above anything Zouma has shown

I am not saying he cannot be sold, but AC and Zouma need to go first

Zouma has a tonne of middling teams who fit his skillset, and they will pay decent money

sell AC first (or try to) but Zouma simply cannot be taken off the table if we cannot or will not sell the others

we need to raise funds, and due to Marina's past bullshit refusals to sell and crazy over-valuations, we are now reaping the whirlwind of vastly diminished returns on already well-proven SHIT

thank fuck we got in Werner and Ziyech, as if that had not happened and we went truly wonky this window (and ended up with very little upgrades at all, and had just brought in the usual panic-buy trash yet again) we would be staring down the barrel of the very real possibility of not even making the top 7 seven next year. In fact, let's say the true nightmare happens. We fuck up Havertz, and cannot find a solution to the Kepa nightmare and just decide to roll with him and Willy yet again. Add in a fail at Rice, and we do not unload any of our CB's and also bring in no new ones. Finally, we say, fuck it, we have failed in every other area, so we cave in and pay £70-80m for Chilwell, and that is it. No new wingers (we have only 3 true ones atm, if just one goes down it is scramble time for a sub as Mount will be out playing in MF a tonne, unless RLC steps up), no new DMF's no new CB's. We roll with Kante and Jorginho (as we cannot find a buyer for him) as the DMF's. and that tactical positional back and forth destabilises the team further (just like it did this year).

IF that is how it ends up (provide no January miracle buy) Lamps will be sacked before the end of the season, or be under insane pressure. We will have a good shot, even with Ziyech and Werner, of missing out on the CL/EL altogether, especially if Manure, and Spuds, and Arse and Leicester pull off some minor coups, and Wolves (who will have ZERO Europe distractions) hold onto all or most of their players. I am sure Everton will be better as well, never underestimate Carlo. Add in the rando  yearly surprise team, and we will be in a knife-fight for top 7.

 

Maybe I have a soft spot for Zouma but he is our only defender that takes no shit from anyone. He is just out there tackling, outmuscling, outspeeding opponents. Shit on the ball, rather poor awarness, but that old school CB you need to show authority. Given players gone weak these days, he is one of the few keeping that no nonsense performances. IMO if he had a better partner like Terry with reliable GK, he could still be a fantastic CB. 

Him and Tomori were forming decent pairing and I understand why Lamps played Rudi then, but given we were complete shit at the back for months, I dont understand why didnt he bring Tomori more. If not for our attack, we would end midtable at best.

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3 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Maybe I have a soft spot for Zouma but he is our only defender that takes no shit from anyone. He is just out there tackling, outmuscling, outspeeding opponents. Shit on the ball, rather poor awarness, but that old school CB you need to show authority. Given players gone weak these days, he is one of the few keeping that no nonsense performances. IMO if he had a better partner like Terry with reliable GK, he could still be a fantastic CB. 

Him and Tomori were forming decent pairing and I understand why Lamps played Rudi then, but given we were complete shit at the back for months, I dont understand why didnt he bring Tomori more. If not for our attack, we would end midtable at best.

Dunk is that and  is more reliable IMHO, plus he is better on the ball

only downside is Dunk's age compared to Zouma, as he is almost 3 full years older,


Lewis Dunk
Date of Birth/Age: 21.11.1991 (28)
Kurt Zouma
Date of Birth/Age: 27.10.1994 (25)

if Zouma was just at Dunk's level on the ball (or Maguire's, not remotely asking for the next Puyol or Ramos or Carvalho or Maldini here, lolol) and was better at spatial awareness and positioning, I would NEVER be slating him

but he isn't, and never will be,so I cannot abide him at all as a starting CB for a team at our level of aspiration

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1 minute ago, Vesper said:

Dunk is that and  is more reliable IMHO, plus he is better on the ball

only downside is Dunk's age compared to Zouma, as he is almost 3 full years older,


Lewis Dunk
Date of Birth/Age: 21.11.1991 (28)
Kurt Zouma
Date of Birth/Age: 27.10.1994 (25)

if Zouma was just at Dunk's level on the ball (or Maguire's, not remotely asking for the next Puyol or Ramos or Carvalho or Maldini here, lolol) and was better at spatial awareness and positioning, I would NEVER be slating him

but he isn't, and never will be,so I cannot abide him at all as a starting CB for a team at our level of aspiration

Dunk is slow and would never survive our high block. At least Zouma is speedy. 

All Im saying is for now, if Kovacic, Azpi, James, Chilwell are good enough, so is Zouma if he gets a general CB that can command the backline. That seems to be the main problem for Zouma since he was absolutely great in that season with Terry.

Once we will compete for CL, we can always upgrade on him if he wont be on the level. 

But thing with CBs is that they dont have to be extremely great, you need one great and more so a chemistry, a great system. Like Lyon had it vs City. Or Liverpool. Zouma can be a part of that, he is good enough in defensive duties.

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If you look at Rudiger, Zouma and Christensen .... you get the feeling that if any of them were paired with a top class CB with excellent leadership, they would be playing miles better than how they have this season. I can't really say who should get the drop.

We need a leader in central defense, and I wish we were linked with one.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

Dunk is slow and would never survive our high block. At least Zouma is speedy. 

All Im saying is for now, if Kovacic, Azpi, James, Chilwell are good enough, so is Zouma if he gets a general CB that can command the backline. That seems to be the main problem for Zouma since he was absolutely great in that season with Terry.

Once we will compete for CL, we can always upgrade on him if he wont be on the level. 

But thing with CBs is that they dont have to be extremely great, you need one great and more so a chemistry, a great system. Like Lyon had it vs City. Or Liverpool. Zouma can be a part of that, he is good enough in defensive duties.

you mistake me for someone who thinks Azpi, Chilwell and no adds in the MF (so tremendous pressure on Kovacic) is/are good enough

Reece is so young, it is hard to make a definitive call on, so get back to me in 2 years, lolol

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